Let's Talk Subs...

Toxis

As you can see in my signature, I have a Sunfire Super Junior. Well a coworker has been crying to pick it up off me and gave me a good price so I'm actually considering it. So with a lil extra thrown in from Tax Return checks, I'm wanting to stay as close to $800 as possible. I have a room that's 12x25x8. Unfinished ceiling so output is not of the necessity. Honestly, my Sunfire is plenty of output for me but I want something that digs deeper and gives me more "presence" without making the g/f whine. I've looked at Epik, HSU, SVS etc but having only listened to MrNightly's SVS, I have no real experience with them. I gotta say, his SVS was ridiculously loud. Im not sure if it was the room, how it was set up or just how he was demoing it but the SQ was just not there for me. The output was very impressive but it also was a coffee table sized. I'm not worried about size now but SQ and depth is the focus. I want musical but will be majority HT use. Do you have a recommendation? I'm fine with running dual subs if I can get a couple nice ones in that budget. I'm good with going Audiogon/eBay/Craigslist/Flea Market if it's in good condition so used is not out of the question. Last thing I'll throw out there, What about going IB?!? I have a full unfinished area under my stairs I could probably get unique with and do 4 12's or 2 15's... but I'd only have the Denon 3805 receiver doing crossover controls. Think it over, let me know what you think here... I'm open to pretty much anything.

GO!

HHStuart

Just my 2 cents but I would seriously consider the new Epik Empire. It is sealed and should be good for music and it would be great for HT. They have a special on right now. After a few days it won't be in your price range anymore. That is a pretty good size room and it might do the trick.

danz1906

SVS.......EPIK are both good subwoofer!

Sherardp

I'm hearing very good things about the Epik Empire. Allot of bang for buck.

TNRabbit

The new Epik is $799, right under your budget & I'm betting it's one helluva bang for the buck. Epik is a fine company.

gtu2004

yea, as everyone suggested, i was going to say the Empire too.

at this point, much of the hype surrounding the Empire is not really supported by any actual findings but rather speculation. But a good speculation at that.

Toxis

Seems that epik is just ok going by your thoughts here? Lol. I'll definitely keep it high on my list (especially being sealed). What about the DIYers? Any IB thoughts?

Toxis

Anyone else have suggestions?

Menasor

Sounds like you want a sealed sub with good output. Probably something like a 18" sealed like an older Epik Dragon... or what everyone else has said... Epik Empire with dual 15's

pearsall001

Toxis wrote: »

Anyone else have suggestions?

Velodyne SPL series. No need to look any further.

mantis

I have many suggestions but what you expect out a really good sub and the amount your willing to pay really doesn't go hand and hand.

I will however give you some examples of subs on the market that can do exactly what you want, you can research their price points and decide if your budget is maxed out or if it's worth waiting until you can add more to get a lot more.

Sub's are difficult to do. I have been listening to many different brands for many years in many different room. I learned what works and what doesn't

So here is my list of mantis top subs.

This list I will try to stay in a somewhat reasonable budget as I have heard 20k subs go.

1) Martin Logan- this company stormed onto the sub market back in 2002 or so. I remember when the first released there first offerings. I was completely blown away and still hold a very high candle to all of there offerings.
A) Depth- This thing is so damn fast and musical yet has the ability to shake a ppretty large theater room. I did many of these in dedicated spaces and they always performed with ease. When you run 2 , it's total coverage and awesome quickness. You can't first off understand the speed until you experience it yourself. Simply one of the very top sub's at it's price pont. All models are to be considered.

2)Rel- There sub's are unbelievable for music. The ability to disappear in the room is 2nd to no one. They blend better with main channel speakers then any other sub made at any price. All models are to be considered.

3) Velodyne- This company offers balance. Balance comes into play with there SPL and higher end models. They have set up mic's which are a positive instrument in blending ones sub into ones system. Excellent SPL levels with control and musical abilities. I love there subs even there older models where great before Digital drive came into play. Tight and crisp. Look deep here and find what you need you will.

4) Paradigm-What a company , they can't make a floor standing speaker to save there lives , they make incredible on wall in wall in ceiling and everything else but there subs are leagues above most other manufactures. They understand Bass. They re create it with the best of them. Just find a older Servo 15 and understand the legacy Paradigm has made for themselves. They start to be very good at the Ultracube series. Everything under that is one hit wonder sounding. They have this huge retarded 3100 sub that reminds me of SVS. I have Installed several SVS subs over the years and they are one hit wonders to me, they I installed my first 3100 Paradigm , it reminded me of the SVS. Hard to place hard to tune and when tuned makes enormous amounts of SPL but lacks detail and control. If you can afford to get a Sub 12 or Sub 15 , you will truly have one of the very best subs on the market at and around it's price class. I would put them up against everything on my list , they are that damn good.

5) Last by not least Definitive Technology- I didn't like this company when they only made there BP series speakers. I judged them on musical abilities and they fell far from my expectations. For theater however they where very very impressive. years later I work with them on a regular basis and got to know them very well. As you know I own a Full Mythos system from them now and I'm very happy with there performance. This topic here is Bass and looking into the Supercube line will impress anyone who likes bass. I installed there smallest sub in the supercube III. It's tiny and basically can fit into the palm of your hand( Not really but it's damn small). I installed it into this guys house in a room which was 16 x 20 x 20 high. it pressurized this room with ease. I didn't expect that at all and the customer and I just laughed back and forth how this little terror was reeking havoc on his house. He loved it and so did I. After that day I started specing more and more suber subes into jobs and found them to impress in bad rooms , good rooms basically anywhere I stuck on they performed. Very Impressive for both music and movies. Very quick but punchy when they have to be.

You you may have got from my words , I'm not a SVS fan. I listened to there subs and never once was impressed other then pure SPL. They can shake a house to death but ask it to play a technical music pass and fail they do.

Remember one thing , this is my experience and opinion from my point of view. Understanding your budget is low considering what you want will be a challenge. This Epik sub everyone is raving about might be worth checking out. I never heard one so I have on comments.

curved

If you can find a dealer near you that carries Snell, go listen to it. It doesn't hit as low as some of the others mentioned, but SQ is fantastic. It's a fast musical sub. You should be able to get close to that price even though it retails for about $1500.

Toxis

I have a couple people telling me to look into Rel but I question it's HT abilities. I have to be honest with myself and while I want something musical, these days I'm 99% HT. Movies and games only really. I still need quality sound and ability to get down over ability to get loud. I also keep hearing about the Epik Empire and the AV123/Onix MFW-15. The MFW seems to be a competitor just due to size and brute force and the fact I can get an open box from them for $650 shipped. Insanity. The search continues though... at least until money hits my pocket then the hole starts burning.

comfortablycurt

This is the first I've heard of the Epik Empire...I looked it up, and I've gotta say I'm really liking what I'm seeing so far.

This could very well be my next subwoofer!! Not that I'll be getting a new sub anytime real soon though...

ViperZ

You want musical, even in HT? Go with sealed subs. I went through about 2 dozen different subs so far, and I think I found what I wanted. Dual NHT SubTwo. Each with Carver/Sunfire-designed 500-Watt RMS amp and dual-10" drivers (1259? - famous among DIYers after NHT cleared their stock a couple of years ago). Stand-alone controller also rules - it supports up to two subs (mono or stereo), so my 2nd controller is still brand new in box.
Why am I saying all of this? One guy on a-gon just had a PAIR for sale for cheap (like 800-900 bucks for two - that's about 1/2 price of the new one), so you can find them fairly cheap. Or go with SubTwoi - same amp, but dual-12".
And... piano black finish... can be used horizontally or vertically.

Links: http://www.nhthifi.com/s.nl/sc.16/category.3713/.f

http://www.nhthifi.com/s.nl/sc.16/category.3714/.f

TroyD

What about Emotiva??

BDT

Toxis

Emotiva's site shows no subs... thoughts?

I'm really liking the idea of the NHT. I know a guy with their towers and it was always top notch and clean. Might look into the dual 12.

McLoki

Toxis wrote: »

Emotiva's site shows no subs... thoughts?

An imaginary Emotiva sub will blow any other companies real sub out of the water - and you can't beat the price.

Michael

danz1906

McLoki wrote: »

An imaginary Emotiva sub will blow any other companies real sub out of the water - and you can't beat the price.

Michael

That's a good-1,,,,,,,,,,,Funny:)

Toxis

I saw the "release" of the Emotiva DRS-1 sub system and I WANT ONE but apparently almost 2.5 years later, it still hasn't been released. Nevermind...

pearsall001

McLoki wrote: »

An imaginary Emotiva sub will blow any other companies real sub out of the water - and you can't beat the price.

Michael

You jest...but EMO is working on a sub line. Supposidely not too far in the near future. More EMO threads await us, I love it!!!! This will really get the rank & file in a tizzy.

Toxis

but when they were "released" mid Oct 07...

Really considering the Empire though... really considering it. So much that if it's still on sale around time I get my income check, pretty damn sure it'll show up in my theater.

Topper

mantis wrote: »

I have many suggestions but what you expect out a really good sub and the amount your willing to pay really doesn't go hand and hand.

I will however give you some examples of subs on the market that can do exactly what you want, you can research their price points and decide if your budget is maxed out or if it's worth waiting until you can add more to get a lot more.

Sub's are difficult to do. I have been listening to many different brands for many years in many different room. I learned what works and what doesn't

So here is my list of mantis top subs.

This list I will try to stay in a somewhat reasonable budget as I have heard 20k subs go.

1) Martin Logan- this company stormed onto the sub market back in 2002 or so. I remember when the first released there first offerings. I was completely blown away and still hold a very high candle to all of there offerings.
A) Depth- This thing is so damn fast and musical yet has the ability to shake a ppretty large theater room. I did many of these in dedicated spaces and they always performed with ease. When you run 2 , it's total coverage and awesome quickness. You can't first off understand the speed until you experience it yourself. Simply one of the very top sub's at it's price pont. All models are to be considered.

2)Rel- There sub's are unbelievable for music. The ability to disappear in the room is 2nd to no one. They blend better with main channel speakers then any other sub made at any price. All models are to be considered.

3) Velodyne- This company offers balance. Balance comes into play with there SPL and higher end models. They have set up mic's which are a positive instrument in blending ones sub into ones system. Excellent SPL levels with control and musical abilities. I love there subs even there older models where great before Digital drive came into play. Tight and crisp. Look deep here and find what you need you will.

4) Paradigm-What a company , they can't make a floor standing speaker to save there lives , they make incredible on wall in wall in ceiling and everything else but there subs are leagues above most other manufactures. They understand Bass. They re create it with the best of them. Just find a older Servo 15 and understand the legacy Paradigm has made for themselves. They start to be very good at the Ultracube series. Everything under that is one hit wonder sounding. They have this huge retarded 3100 sub that reminds me of SVS. I have Installed several SVS subs over the years and they are one hit wonders to me, they I installed my first 3100 Paradigm , it reminded me of the SVS. Hard to place hard to tune and when tuned makes enormous amounts of SPL but lacks detail and control. If you can afford to get a Sub 12 or Sub 15 , you will truly have one of the very best subs on the market at and around it's price class. I would put them up against everything on my list , they are that damn good.

5) Last by not least Definitive Technology- I didn't like this company when they only made there BP series speakers. I judged them on musical abilities and they fell far from my expectations. For theater however they where very very impressive. years later I work with them on a regular basis and got to know them very well. As you know I own a Full Mythos system from them now and I'm very happy with there performance. This topic here is Bass and looking into the Supercube line will impress anyone who likes bass. I installed there smallest sub in the supercube III. It's tiny and basically can fit into the palm of your hand( Not really but it's damn small). I installed it into this guys house in a room which was 16 x 20 x 20 high. it pressurized this room with ease. I didn't expect that at all and the customer and I just laughed back and forth how this little terror was reeking havoc on his house. He loved it and so did I. After that day I started specing more and more suber subes into jobs and found them to impress in bad rooms , good rooms basically anywhere I stuck on they performed. Very Impressive for both music and movies. Very quick but punchy when they have to be.

You you may have got from my words , I'm not a SVS fan. I listened to there subs and never once was impressed other then pure SPL. They can shake a house to death but ask it to play a technical music pass and fail they do.

Remember one thing , this is my experience and opinion from my point of view. Understanding your budget is low considering what you want will be a challenge. This Epik sub everyone is raving about might be worth checking out. I never heard one so I have on comments.

Any chance to play with some of Polk's current subs? would love to hear your thoughts on em

chiptouz

Toxis,

I just noticed you were from KC, we just relocated to KC from STL. BTW what are the best stores to purchase AV gear in KC? Have you had a chance to hear the Polk DSW Pro 600. I want to get a better sub than the one I have, but am worried about size and the wife...Some of those others are huge.

Chip

ViperZ

chiptouz wrote: »

Toxis,

I just noticed you were from KC, we just relocated to KC from STL. BTW what are the best stores to purchase AV gear in KC? Have you had a chance to hear the Polk DSW Pro 600. I want to get a better sub than the one I have, but am worried about size and the wife...Some of those others are huge.

Chip

There are tons of small subs out there, which are great for HT, like Velodyne MicroVee and MiniVee. These are the first ones that come to mind.

Toxis

Polk makes some great value subs but for what I'm looking for, I need more depth and even getting any sub to go to my super junior level is just not really in their realm. Unfortunately there's no REAL audio place in KC anymore without going extreme high end or box retailer. Now I work for NFM and we have some nice stuff but sunfire or klipsch is the only quality brands now days. I want more...