Help me decide on a tube preamp

BSUfbfan

Hey Guys.

I am down to deciding between 2 preamps, and can't make up my mind. VTL 2.5 or Audio Research SP-9 MKIII..... any opinions? Love my tube CD player, so I want to upgrade my SS Preamp next. Both units seem to have really good reviews, and I love the industrial looks of the AR, but have a feeling the VTL may have better sound since its not a "hybrid".

Thanks.

TroyD

I'm a big fan of ARC gear...(AR is the fabled Acoustic Research begat of Villchur, Kloss and Allison). It's the least 'tubey' of tube gear.

BDT

organ

I"ve only heard ARC. Haven't heard VTL. You can also look up the output impedance of both units and see which one is a better match for your amp.

W WALDECKER

I own a VTL TL 2.5 and i like it very much.it really does responds well to tube rolling.if i want midrange warmth i run 12AU7 Mullards if i seek neutrality i run a late 50's early 60's Valvo or Siemens E82CC /12AU7 or my personal favorite late 50's early 60's Amperex D getter ECC186/7316's.good luck....WCW III

hearingimpared

I've heard the VTL TL 2.5 and found it to be a great sounding pre. It throws a very large soundstage, deep extended bass, and excellent imaging and clarity with the stock tubes. As stated above it responds very well to tube rolling.

I've not heard the ARC so I can't comment on that.

mhardy6647

Just to clarify: Acoustic Research (AR) was begat of Villchur, Allison, Kloss, etc. and hailed from the People's Republic of Cambridge, MA. They're best known for loudspeakers.

Audio Research Corporation (ARC) is from the great Midwest (Minnesota, I think) and are best known for preamps and power amps (primarily vacuum tubed, although they've made many soiled state products, too). They also marketed Magnepan's Magneplanar big statement Tympani speakers (not that I ever understood why).

The two companies are unrelated (indeed only ARC still exists in any semblance of its former self).

vc69

I own a VTL 2.5 and love it. Very clean and detailed sound with the liquid smoothness I seek in midrange for vocal, sax, guitar etc.

If you want to go with an ARC Pre, move up the line to LS15 or >. I haven't been terribly impressed by the LS 8, so far. At least not enough to give up my VTL. Edit: Have not heard an SP-9

Mr. Waldecker, I appreciate the tube suggestions. I have yet to do any rolling. My 2.5 is still running the tubes that it came with.

hearingimpared

vc69 wrote: »

I own a VTL 2.5 and love it. Very clean and detailed sound with the liquid smoothness I seek in midrange for vocal, sax, guitar etc.

If you want to go with an ARC Pre, move up the line to LS15 or >. I haven't been terribly impressed by the LS 8, so far. At least not enough to give up my VTL. Edit: Have not heard an SP-9

Mr. Waldecker, I appreciate the tube suggestions. I have yet to do any rolling. My 2.5 is still running the tubes that it came with.

Does your 2.5 have a phono stage in it? When I bought the 5.5, which I really didn't like and preferred the 2.5, it had a phono stage in it that sucked. When I spoke to Luke Manley he said that they put the phono stage in both the 2.5 and the 5.5 by request but did put cheap tubes in to keep the price down. IIRC it was a $750 upgrade to get the phono stage installed.

I was very suprised how bad the 5.5 sounded in lieu of the stellar reviews it had been given. I think it was a synergy thing with the rig I was using at the time because the 2.5 sounded awesome.

vc69

Mine does not have the phono stage. I am going with a standalone phono stage, so that was never a consideration for me.

headrott

W WALDECKER wrote: »

I own a VTL TL 2.5 and i like it very much.it really does responds well to tube rolling.if i want midrange warmth i run 12AU7 Mullards if i seek neutrality i run a late 50's early 60's Valvo or Siemens E82CC /12AU7 or my personal favorite late 50's early 60's Amperex D getter ECC186/7316's.good luck....WCW III

Sorry, this is somewhat off topic.

Try some of the Brimar 13D5 tubes in at the 12AU7 spots, I am using those with the 45 degree Hamburg Valvo (12AX7) tubes and they sound amazing together.

Have you tried RCA cleartops for the 12AU7 spot? I ask because I have about 3 pairs of them, and tried them a while back but didn't seem impressed with them. Maybe I should put them back in for a listen.

Greg

hearingimpared

vc69 wrote: »

Mine does not have the phono stage. I am going with a standalone phono stage, so that was never a consideration for me.

Well that's good because the phono stage that Luke provides IMHO is not very good and is hard to change gain settings for MC cartridges.

vc69

hearingimpared wrote: »

Well that's good because the phono stage that Luke provides IMHO is not very good and is hard to change gain settings for MC cartridges.

I have read that elsewhere too. Seems most people with a pre-amp of this caliber would want a really good separate phono stage anyway.

hearingimpared

vc69 wrote: »

I have read that elsewhere too. Seems most people with a pre-amp of this caliber would want a really good separate phono stage anyway.

I agree. I don't know why companies are willing to put phono stages in their product and skimp on the quality. My TriVista which cost big bucks new has a phono stage in it and it sucks. When I questioned the support dept of the TriVista about this, I was told that it was put in as a convenience for their customers. Well kiss my grits, if that is the case make the "convenice" something worth using.

My, almost 30 year old Spectral pre has a spectacular phono stage with all kinds of options for both MM and MC cartridges. Of course it was designed and manufactured when vinyl was king! This is what I use as my phono pre.

zingo

I have not heard VTL equipment, but I have never heard ARC stuff I didn't like. I know their tube pres are their most popular, but just make sure the preamp you purchase has the inputs and outputs you need as the SP9 is not balanced.

http://www.arcdb.ws/SP9/SP9.html

BSUfbfan

Thanks for the responses guys. I have heard the same about the VTL, that the line stage is amazing, but the Phono section leaves alot to be desired.... I am just looking at the Line stage version. The ARC LS-8MKII gets really good reviews too, for an entry level all tube pre. Another that has peeked my interest today is a Sonic Frontiers SFL-2..... Power supply in a totally seperate case. Nice! Now I just need to pull the trigger on something.

HB27

Just take your time and research your needs thoroughly. A good pre is your control to all your components.
Harry

janmike

I own ARC gear and am very happy. (LS26 & VS115) Good luck.

BSUfbfan

Thanks Janmike!

I have been keeping a wondering eye out for a LS-8mkII for a long time, but they don't come up very often. There is a standard LS-8 on Audiogon right now, but I don't know how much difference there is between the two.

vc69

Look here for all things ARC related.

http://www.arcdb.ws/


I have heard an LS-8. I have not heard a MkII

BSUfbfan

vc69 wrote: »

I have heard an LS-8. I have not heard a MkII

What did you think of the regular LS-8?

Thanks.

vc69

BSUfbfan wrote: »

What did you think of the regular LS-8?

Thanks.

It was nice and I was looking hard at one when I got a shot at the VTL. I preferred the VTL for several reasons. Not the least of which was the fact that my buddy was able to ship me the VTL and I had some time with it before I bought it. He is upgrading to an ARC LS15 or 25. I think the 2.5 and the LS8 are probably on equal footing. They seem to me to be very similar. I think the VTL might have a slightly creamier midrange. I'm sure these characteristics could be manipulated with some tube rolling though. I know that isn't terribly helpful but I have never A/B'd the two to have a good idea of the differences. I don't trust my "audio memory" much further than I can throw it.

BSUfbfan

Thanks for the info. Right now I can get the LS-8 for about Three Hundred less than the line stage 2.5, so its looking pretty good.

marvda1

there are some nice vac preamps on audiogon now.

BSUfbfan

marvda1 wrote: »

there are some nice vac preamps on audiogon now.

Any you recommend that I haven't been looking at?

vc69

That VTL 2.5 in black looks minty fresh. Is that the one you have been looking at?

BSUfbfan

Yeah, the black one on audiogon is the one. I like the black look of the ARC LS-8 also, but hopefully some more polksters will be able to recommend if the 2.5 is worth the extra cash.

Thanks.

vc69

I have no idea what it would take to pry me off of my 2.5. I don't think the LS8 would do it. I haven't gone "balanced" on anything yet so I'm guessing the 2.5 will be around a long time. It is everything I want in a tube pre. Next up for me is a VTL or ARC amp.

marvda1

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1269821606&/VAC-Standrard-MkII-with-extras
or
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1269452180&/Vac-Standard-Limited-Edition-w
or if you want to go crazy.
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1268843105&/VAC-Phi-2.0-Preamp-Sale-Pendin