Dedicated outlets wiring

disneyjoe7

Looking to add a dedicated ac line to my family room system. I thinking one 20 amp outlet splitting outlet with 10/3 cable one feeding the upper one with 20 amp feeding the lower outlet. If done what outlet is good for this propose? Knowing some outlets are built better then others. Or is it best to add a PS Audio Soloist but then I seem to lose my 2 20amp thing. I don't really wish to add another outlet in the area.


This is future as I need to add this in my main electric panel but it's maxed MAXED out. It's only a 8 space panel and its over wired now, looking to get a 20 space panel in the future.

lightman1

If I'm reading this right, Steve, you may experience some noise from the possible difference in voltage between the phases. i.e. Phases A may have 125v to ground and Phase B may have 122v to ground. Running both phases on a 10/3 cable sharing one neutral might cause an imbalance on the return path to the voltage source.
Depending on the maker of your panel you may be able to get 1/2 size breakers for it and run two seperate 12/2 cables to the outlets and lessening the chace of any funky-**** noise and harmonics getting into the gear. Not perfect bot worth a shot.
Let me know if this helps and I'll pack up the tools.

disneyjoe7

Good point I never thought that if the voltage is different the yes you may get some noise.


Ok on the main panel problem, and another story I replace all my outlets in my house with designer outlets, since I add designer light switches. I found that my outlet I use for my stereo is the worst F outlet in the house, it's pigtailed wired has 4 or 5 wires in and out, a serious electric outlet which seems to power everything around it. Found another outlet like this in my dinner room which as nothing plugged in it.

The main 8 spaces 2 double 100amp circuits to power Sub panels 1 and 2, leaving 4 spaces right before anything was added it had 5 circuits in it. One being a GFI breaker, a double 1/2 breaker and one single breaker. Pool was added with put a quad breaker in there for 30amp / 240vac pool sub-panel, I added a cap for reducing my electric. I don't use the cap now, but this needed to be a quad also. That removed the GFI breaker and I added that by the outlet for a spa pump. I wish to add these devices now.

A X10 repeater 240vac needed to bridge the house.

A surge device so I can get the main meter surge device out it's costs $7+ a month.

A outside outlet for tree lights, controlled by X10.

2 20amp outlets for my family room stereo system.


When I say it's Maxed out I'm serious.

lightman1

Yep, seems you need a larger panel. That sumbitch IS loaded! You could move up to a 16 space 200A main breaker panel. I'm guessing this is the main panel outside at the meter..??
About a half days work and you should be good to go with more space to grow.

disneyjoe7

Hmmm...

I'm thinking at least a day, before power is back on.

lightman1

You must have a mess out there. Get some bids from a few reputable contractors. But remember cheaper doesn't better.

disneyjoe7

Did are resident Electrician throw up his hands already!


Here's a picture for ya.


And I sure the sub panels don't look any better as 98% circuits are 1/2 size now.

mjg

This panel could be replaced with a 30 circuit, 100 amp panel. If you upgrade to a 200 amp panel the feeders would have to be replaced, as well as the service entrance cable feeding the meter box. As for your branch circuits for your audio equipment, they make what is called 12/2/2 wire. This is rated for 20 amps, and has 2 neutrals in it, for 2 seperate circuits. If you want to terminate both circuits on one duplex outlet, you need to break the tabs on both sides of the outlet so they are seperate. Hope this helps. This is what I do for a living.

Good luck, Maurice

disneyjoe7

Maurice,

Sorry that the picture is small, I could post a bigger picture if needed. But this is a 200 amp main panel now, with 8 breaker space.

disneyjoe7

I updated the pictures making them larger, also added a close up.

mjg

In that case this can be upgraded with a panel containing up to 42 spaces. It is not a DIY project. You have to get what is called a 3R enclosure(weather proof) and the grounding and bonding may have to be upgraded. Find a good local electrician, and have it inspected. Its worth the extra $

Maurice

disneyjoe7

I agree it's not a DIY project, the meter needs to be removed, it's needs an inspected view before the electrical company will replace the meter. Not looking forward to this update, but I do think it needs to be done.

disneyjoe7

Ok sorry we got off track here, since I need to update the main panel before I can update my stereo AC outlet. So what's best 2 20amp circuits by 2 12/2 romex wire. So with these wires what is best one 20amp outlet? The PS Audio Soloist outlet, with another 20amp outlet? Not sure I have the room for both but tell me what you would do?

mjg

When you have your service upgraded you can have the guy run a piece of 12/2/2 to your stereo location. He can terminate both circuits on 1 duplex outlet by removing the tabs on the outlet. You could then run a power strip or some form of power protection device off each circuit. this would take up the least amount of space as I guess space is an issue.

Maurice

disneyjoe7

Any link to 12/2/2 wire I never heard of that before. I heard of 12/2 but not 12/2/2, all in all thinking best to do 10/2

Steve

lightman1

Hey Steve. Had this fargin' work thing to go to this morning! Maurice pretty much nailed it.
Going up to a 42 space panel will give TONS of room for future circuits.
I have had better results running seperate cables to individual receptacle outlets. trying to keep the neutrals and grounds of each circuit seperate. From each other. YMMV

disneyjoe7

Guys not that it matters, but I counted the sub panels spaces in my house. They are 12 spaces so all in all right now have 2 x 12 + 8 = 32 spaces. Which are full yes. Then you could add the pool sub controller which would add another 8 spaces. So a 20 space box should be fine, since not everything is coming from here.


Steve

AudioFilet

There are 2 small black (12ga?) wires at the bottom of the panel going into those large lugs. That doesn't look right.

What are those?

reeltrouble1

would you kindly remove the ribbon prior to burning your house down...................

RT1

lightman1

AudioFilet wrote: »

There are 2 small black (12ga?) wires at the bottom of the panel going into those large lugs. That doesn't look right.

What are those?

Surge/lightning arrester. you can see on the bottom right mounted to the panel board.

AudioFilet

lightman1 wrote: »

Surge/lightning arrester. you can see on the bottom right mounted to the panel board.

In that case, it's just a set of MOV's. They only work once. Probably nothing in there now but dust.

amulford

Steve,

If it were me I'd upgrade the service while I was at it. Your already full, so you might as well add the capacity. It will mean adding a new meter and drop, which will add to the cost some, but the benefits are well worth it IMO.

You already have to move the meter anyway, so WTH. You should be done with it for good then.

Just my 2 cents...

disneyjoe7

Well going to meet up with an electrician today to see, what he thinks about this. I sent him a picture to asked about price, but he needs to see first, not so sure about that but....


And Ted,

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA:D


Steve


BTW the surge as been replaced once, as this house had some lightening damage prior to me owning it. The wiring to the bottom was done by the electrician whom build the house? Not sure, seems like it was that way from day one.

Amulford,

Not sure why the meter would have to be relocated, I understand the meter would need to be removed prior to playing with those power cables, but relocating don't see.

disneyjoe7

Lightman, and or others.

If I run 2 seperate x/2 cables down to a outlet either being 10/2 or 12/2. In the box do you join the grounds together to pigtail it to the outlet? And what do you do with the neutrals the same, or run them so each outlet of the duplex has a neutral like the hot side. I rethinking the family room, so I would have a duplex outlet feed twice upper / lower and have a PS Audio Soloist outlet by another 20amp feed.

disneyjoe7

Ok maybe the wrong electrical person who came over my house, think it could be done by him.... But not really comfortable with him, and I wonder between him and me how could catch the house on fire first.

mjg

12/2/2 wire has 5 conductors in it 1 black, 1 red, 1 white(or white with a black stripe), 1 white with a red stripe, and 1 bare copper(ground). So you have 2 complete circuits in 1 wire, and you are not sharing a neutral. You could also run 2 12/2 if you want. I would not recomend installing anything less than a 30 space main panel. You dont have to fill it with breakers now, but you will have room for anything down the road.

disneyjoe7

8 space panel to a 30 space panel, is this like moving from a 1 bedroom apartment to a 6 / 5 bedroom house?

Krazyz1

I've looked at the photos pretty close , and a lot could be hidden from the wires , but is there a TRUE ground in that panel? Looks to me neutrals and grounds in same bar.

mjg

Check the price difference on the panels. It is not that much more money, and it doesnt cost any more to install. Also neutrals and grounds go together in the main panel. A seperate ground bar is only required in a sub panel installation. If you look at the bottom of the neutral bar you will see a #6 ground wire on there.

disneyjoe7

I think you're correct I would need to re-look in the morning to see for sure. I like to hear for an electrician by trade on this one.


BTW I can't play very dumb in front of electricians he obviously figure I know something of electric or wiring in general as he asked how I work for today while he was trying to put an estimate together.

amulford

Not sure why the meter would have to be relocated

To make room for the bigger panel. Code requires a certain cubic volume per # of conductors. Unless the new panel is the same width as the current one, you're probably going to need/want to move the meter housing