My first audition of Polk SDA-2

Oktyabr

Hmmm...

I got some listening in and there is definitely a difference! I just used 16 gauge speaker wire and carefully smashed the twisted and folded wire ends into plug type shapes with a good pair of wire pliers. Got about 15 minutes in before the "Thermal Protection" circuit on my Adcom kicked in!!!!

Modded Adcom (I have no reason to think so), modded SDA2s, or something else?

cnh

That should not be happening....check the tightness of your speaker connections and SDA connector...those are probably causing the unit to go into the protectiion more.

I've never seen an Adcom GFA-555 shut down while driving moderate sized SDAs! The thing is a TANK!!

cnh

Oktyabr

And I never had a problem with this amp with any speakers I've plugged into it before and even these SDA2's got at least a few hours in *before* I tried my improvised SDA connector.

While I wait for the amp to cool down (I've never seen an Adcom go into thermal protection mode either and I've been running them for years!) someone asked me about how I have them positioned and my room, etc. so I'll try to fill in some blanks...

We rent a fairly small duplex at the moment so the living room system has to pull double duty, both as home theater and as two channel music. The room is basically a rectangle 14' x 16' or so with the system against one of the narrow walls. The wall it uses is closed and the wall immediately clockwise (looking from above) is closed as well. The wall directly opposite has one hall way off of it and the last wall, the other 16', is half closed with the half closest to the system open into the kitchen and dining room and a short hallway to the garage, etc. A padded L-shaped sectional is the largest object in the room, against the fully closed wall as well as facing the system.

I really couldn't place speakers closer than about 5.5' apart even if I wanted to because between them is our big screen on top of shelving that is home to the amp, pre, cable box, game systems, etc. At the moment I have the Polks in a fairly typical position for this setup... here is a shot showing the locations although of course those are not SDA2s


That puts them about 6' apart, perhaps 2' from the rear wall and the one closed corner is about 2.5' away. The sweet spot on the couch, directly between the speakers, is approx. 8' from the front of them.

Unlike many other speakers I've had in roughly the same positions it is my opinion that the SDA2s do not like "toe in" at all, sounding more realistic, at least in my room, if they are fairly neutral in those regards. I'd really like to move them further apart too which I'll experiment with tomorrow after I get some other speakers moved back into storage (New Large Advents stacked on top of Utah Americanas and a pair of Vandersteen 2Cs I have turned sideways to free up some space!)

Paden501

Toe-in is a no-no with SDA speakers. It says explicitly in the SDA manual from Polk to set them up parallel to the wall behind them and neither in front of the other w/ respect to the listener. it also says about 3' off of the sidewalls is optimal.

Oktyabr

Yeah, that's what I read too. I'm just used to more "conventional" speakers I guess that a bit of toe-in seemed natural as a starting place. You know, of all the speakers I've had the pleasure to listen to these image (in particular) much more like a big Magnepan or other electrostat than anything else I can think of. Nice sounding speaker but definitely different, "dimensional", than other cone based, closed box designs, including some the of the smaller polks I've owned too (Monitors, S7s, etc.)

Good news is that once the adcom cooled down (about 10 minutes after the heatsinks stopped glowing. j/king!) it fired right back up and is jamming the SDAs quite nicely, sans SDA connector. I love Adcom.

JohnLocke88

Oktyabr wrote: »

Thanks gang!

Ok, so if I just improvise a speaker wire (I have LOTS of it in several different gauges and grades) to test this SDA effect... can I just jam some speaker wire in both slots? It sounds like the top slot must go to the bottom slot on the opposite speaker and vice versa?

I'm eager to see what this effect does in my room... and it's probably not a bad thing to try it before I go out buying and manufacturing a cable.

NOOOOOOOO!!!!!1oneeleven1

The top goes to the top and the bottom goes to the bottom

EDIT: NVM, 50 other people seem to have said the same thing upon further reading...

DO NOT CROSS THE CONNECTIONS

TNTsTunes

JohnLocke88 wrote: »

NOOOOOOOO!!!!!1oneeleven1

The top goes to the top and the bottom goes to the bottom

EDIT: NVM, 50 other people seem to have said the same thing upon further reading...

DO NOT CROSS THE CONNECTIONS

This shows the correct orientation for the crossover wiring for the speaker...
SDA-2 wiring diagram

concealer404

Oktyabr wrote: »

And I never had a problem with this amp with any speakers I've plugged into it before and even these SDA2's got at least a few hours in *before* I tried my improvised SDA connector.

While I wait for the amp to cool down (I've never seen an Adcom go into thermal protection mode either and I've been running them for years!) someone asked me about how I have them positioned and my room, etc. so I'll try to fill in some blanks...

We rent a fairly small duplex at the moment so the living room system has to pull double duty, both as home theater and as two channel music. The room is basically a rectangle 14' x 16' or so with the system against one of the narrow walls. The wall it uses is closed and the wall immediately clockwise (looking from above) is closed as well. The wall directly opposite has one hall way off of it and the last wall, the other 16', is half closed with the half closest to the system open into the kitchen and dining room and a short hallway to the garage, etc. A padded L-shaped sectional is the largest object in the room, against the fully closed wall as well as facing the system.

I really couldn't place speakers closer than about 5.5' apart even if I wanted to because between them is our big screen on top of shelving that is home to the amp, pre, cable box, game systems, etc. At the moment I have the Polks in a fairly typical position for this setup... here is a shot showing the locations although of course those are not SDA2s

What are those? Older ARs?

Oktyabr

Yeah, AR9LS, next generation right after the original AR9. Sold them and now working out a way to buy them back

concealer404

Oktyabr wrote: »

Yeah, AR9LS, next generation right after the original AR9. Sold them and now working out a way to buy them back

There was a set of those locally for a decent price awhile back. I kindof wish i had jumped on them, but i'm not sure if they would have worked well in my room. It's kindof a shallow room.

Oktyabr

Ok wizards of Polk... ideas on what went wrong here? I know I hooked these up small slot to small slot, large slot to large slot, which should have been correct according the to the schematics. There was definitely a change in sound... in fact there was a change in sound when even one of the wires was connected and the other one not.

Speaker wire is capable (double runs of Monster Powerline2, 4 x 12 gauge to each speaker, with gold plated "tightening" banana plugs on both ends) and secure.
I got in maybe 15 minutes of playing around with these when the thermal protection on my amp kicked in. No fuses in either the amp or the SDA2s were harmed in the production of this experiment.

1) If I had wired it wrong should I have had that time and noticed an improvement in sound or should it have more likely immediately shorted out, at the very least blowing some fuses?

2) Best way of accessing the crossover? Through the radiator?

Oktyabr

concealer404 wrote: »

There was a set of those locally for a decent price awhile back. I kindof wish i had jumped on them, but i'm not sure if they would have worked well in my room. It's kindof a shallow room.

Unlike the similar AR TSW-910s or even the original AR9s the AR9LS does away with all side or rear firing woofers making room placement much easier. A single, true subwoofer (50Hz and lower) fires downward from it's own sealed compartment into a foam-lined slot loaded enclosure and out the front. These speakers are huge and heavy, right around 100lbs each, but were a joy to listen to. My only complaint with the design of the AR9LS is that they are single wire setup where I prefer my larger towers to be biamp/biwire capable.

What was a decent price? The pair I had (in the photo) had new surrounds and acoustic foam and the crossovers had been gone through too in the last few years. I'm trying to get them back for $650 and would be happy if I could.

concealer404

Oktyabr wrote: »

Unlike the similar AR TSW-910s or even the original AR9s the AR9LS does away with all side or rear firing woofers making room placement much easier. A single, true subwoofer (50Hz and lower) fires downward from it's own sealed compartment into a foam-lined slot loaded enclosure and out the front. These speakers are huge and heavy, right around 100lbs each, but were a joy to listen to. My only complaint with the design of the AR9LS is that they are single wire setup where I prefer my larger towers to be biamp/biwire capable.

What was a decent price? The pair I had (in the photo) had new surrounds and acoustic foam and the crossovers had been gone through too in the last few years. I'm trying to get them back for $650 and would be happy if I could.

First off, sorry i can't help further with your SDA issues... i've never owned a pair of SDAs.

The pair that showed up here was $375 with some slight cabinet issues. Bashed corners and stuff, nothing REAL major.

I think they would have been a nightmare to try to fit in my room... It's a 12x16 room, and it's necessary for me to put the speakers on the long wall. Even my current little Paradigms could stand to be a few feet further away from me.

nadams

Hmm... I've run my SDA2's for 15 minutes straight on the GFA 545 with the clipping lights blinking quite a lot with no thermal shutdowns. I'm guessing it has something to do with your improvised SDA cable. Maybe they're shorting somehow???

Once you get things hooked up and working properly, unhook the outside tweeters. The soundstage will be much more coherent.

Edit - BTW, where are you located? If you're close to me, you're welcome to swing by and hear my 2's!

Oktyabr

nadams wrote: »

Hmm... I've run my SDA2's for 15 minutes straight on the GFA 545 with the clipping lights blinking quite a lot with no thermal shutdowns. I'm guessing it has something to do with your improvised SDA cable. Maybe they're shorting somehow???

Once you get things hooked up and working properly, unhook the outside tweeters. The soundstage will be much more coherent.

Edit - BTW, where are you located? If you're close to me, you're welcome to swing by and hear my 2's!

Thanks for the offer but I'm near Seattle, WA!

I think that's the first thing I'm going to do is pull that socket and make sure they are actually wired correctly.

HB27

Congrats on the SDAs.
OK, Now you get to learn placement for proper SDA effect.
Darn good pick up and great price.
Harry

Oktyabr

HB27 wrote: »

Congrats on the SDAs.
OK, Now you get to learn placement for proper SDA effect.
Darn good pick up and great price.
Harry

Thanks Harry, but first I have to get the "SDA effect" to work without melting my Adcom GFA-555 mkII into a molten puddle of slag

Oktyabr

OK folks, I pulled the radiator in both and did a cursory examination of the xovers and everything *looks* good. I couldn't see any melted or burnt boards, the caps looked beautiful (yellow "Mexico" btw), all the wires looked like these had been assembled yesterday.

It is IMPORTANT to note, and I should have mentioned this yesterday, that the way these SDA-2's are assembled means crossing over the SDA cable, as we are (hopefully) all aware. The schematic seems to indicate that they are setup this way internally and that is in fact what I said but this is what I should have been more clear about!!!

These speakers are, in fact, wired identically on the inside. The only difference between the "Right" and "Left" speaker in a matched pair of SDA2s (ok, besides the mirroring of the drivers in the box) is done simply by flipping over the plug on the back of the box. In other words the white wire, for example purposes only, internally always goes to the top slot and the dark wire goes to the bottom slot (I really don't remember now if that is correct or if I have them reversed but for this example it works). By flipping the sockets opposite to each other you end up with (on the outside) a small slot on top on one speaker and the small slot on the bottom on the other.

This is the same effect that would have been accomplished by assembling the speakers the same, with the same plug orientation, and then doing a half twist in the actual cable so the two strands go to the opposite plugs before the two prong terminators are fastened.

Long story made short, just in case anyone down the road reads this thread and thinks about improvising an SDA cable with a piece of speaker wire, just for testing purposes, it IS small slot to small slot, big slot to big slot, as mentioned in several posts up above, but do NOT assume that the small slot is on the top on both speakers! In my example at least they are reversed.

Back to the laboratory.

Tony M

I ran into the socket orientation ? on my SRS's and a forum member said it was a way of identifing a left from a right speaker in the case a label was torn off. Makes sense to me.

small to small....;)

hearingimpared

tony millard wrote: »

I ran into the socket orientation ? on my SRS's and a forum member said it was a way of identifing a left from a right speaker in the case a label was torn off. Makes sense to me.

small to small....;)

Yeah but which is right and which is left?:eek:

Tony M

LOL..I didn't have to worry about that since mine have labels..:D

I could look but then again , I replaced my sockets and turned them both the same..:(

Oktyabr

hearingimpared wrote: »

Yeah but which is right and which is left?:eek:

In the case of the SDA-2 just remember to put the side with the most mids (there are three of them) nearest each other, or to the inside... or in case you don't have the SDA interconnect, like me, put the side that makes music without it to the inside when you are facing them.

Label torn off? The back of mine has a diagram painted on to the back surface showing orientation and, just for those who might be missing this, that the recommended distance is X=Y, where X= how far your head is from the center point (imagine one line horizontally across the front of both speakers, the center of that line) and Y= the distance between the two speakers.

Brings up a valid point. When I was considering my first foray into Polk SDA I could find lots of photos of the fronts of the speakers but nearly none on the back of the cabinets! This is especially important because my SDA-2s at least have a significant amount of information on them!

hearingimpared

Oktyabr wrote: »

In the case of the SDA-2 just remember to put the side with the most mids (there are three of them) nearest each other, or to the inside... or in case you don't have the SDA interconnect, like me, put the side that makes music without it to the inside when you are facing them.

That would be hard to figure out with mine.;)

inspiredsports

Oktyabr wrote: »

In the case of the SDA-2 just remember to put the side with the most mids (there are three of them) nearest each other, or to the inside... or in case you don't have the SDA interconnect, like me, put the side that makes music without it to the inside when you are facing them.

Label torn off? The back of mine has a diagram painted on to the back surface showing orientation and, just for those who might be missing this, that the recommended distance is X=Y, where X= how far your head is from the center point (imagine one line horizontally across the front of both speakers, the center of that line) and Y= the distance between the two speakers.

Brings up a valid point. When I was considering my first foray into Polk SDA I could find lots of photos of the fronts of the speakers but nearly none on the back of the cabinets! This is especially important because my SDA-2s at least have a significant amount of information on them!

Hi Oktyabr,

Concerning placement, this thread might help http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92715

Greg

PolkMaster1

cnh wrote: »

That is in fact how they are wired so I don't think we have a problem there...previous owneer was a Polkie who checked the specs and wired them in accordance...it's fine but a bit funky! They sound great in any case....EFFECT is there!

cnh

The Stereo and SDA Drivers can differ from model to model, so that is not always correct. In this case, one would have to refer to the schematic diagram of the SDA 2 to verify for sure. (SRS 1.2TL users can testify that the drivers differ for Stereo vs. SDA Arrays.) Since the number SDA and Stereo Drivers on this model differ as opposed to an SDA 1 level speaker, or an SRS/SRS 1.2/1.2TL, it will matter for two reasons:

1. the way the drivers are placed on this model - the left and right placement should mirror each other when facing each other.

2. if the driver models are different between SDA and Stereo Drivers, our new SDA member may not get the full effect as opposed to someone who has a proper left-right speaker.

Our new friend may have to go into the speaker and check out the drivers to check it out for him or herself and see what they have. Hopefully, all of this will work out for them. Never-the-less, the buyer did get a great set of legendary speakers.

From personal experience - the SDA 2s' were the first TRUE stereo speaker I ever heard thanks to a friend who was talking about getting these speakers for months before he purchased them. Once I heard them, I was an instant Polkster for life.

Sure wish Polk still made these.

Oktyabr

I got everything put back together, kicked the Vandersteen 2Cs out of the way and plugged the SDA2s back in. Got a different piece of speaker wire, was careful to make sure the BIG slot went to the BIG slot and so on and that no tiny threads of copper were being out of line and fired them back up.

No overheating problems now! The tweeter for the dimensional effect on the left speaker seems to be gone but other than that they sound MUCH better than without any SDA interconnect.

I really expected the sound stage to broaden with this system in place and rather it was to the contrary. Where I thought my SDA2s resembled Magnepans in an almost too big sound stage (at least in my room) with my improvised SDA IC in place they actually seemed to tighten up a bit... which I like.

I could say that during the intro drum hits to Dire Straits "Money For Nothing" they didn't have quite the hit you in the chest type bass as some of the monster Teledyne ARs I've owned but I'm still amazed that the SDA-2 has the sort of bass it does!

The easiest comparison is to my pair of Vandersteen 2Cs which I've been rotating in and out with the Polk for the last 24 hours. The 2Cs are, in my opinion, near the top of the heap of speakers you can buy under $1000. Like the SDA2's they hit deeper than you would imagine looking at them. Like the SDA2s they also have a brilliant soundstage (when placed properly) and disappear quite nicely when I close my eyes.

The biggest difference, again IMHO, is that the 2Cs seem a bit more discrete about where an instrument is in the stereo sound field. I know I prefer a speaker that does this and most of the pairs that have spent any serious time in my living room share this quality... I don't like beamy speakers that require exactly the right placement (that will never happen in my small, crowded living room) or exactly the right seating spot to fully enjoy. The other side of the coin is similar... a speaker that broadcasts it's sound too broadly, many multi-directional speakers share this, might have a broad "sweet spot" but also muddy up the imaging to the point where it becomes more difficult to tell exactly what side of the stereo image the mixer wanted instrument "A" and vocalist "X".

As I mentioned before I think the SDA2s exhibited this more without the SDA IC in place than it does with it.

Anyway I gave the SDA2's a more serious listen tonight with some of my reference tracks. These were played at a range of volume from "light background" to damn near concert reference and the SDA2s didn't give up! I have no idea why they sound as good as they do... in my mind that collection of relatively small drivers and one radiator just *shouldn't* produce that volume of sound, both high in quality and quantity. I'm pleased with my purchase So is "the boss" who gave his approval during a 0 db (on the big knob) playback of Eric Clapton's "Motherless Child":

"Snibby tested, Snibby approved!"

inspiredsports

Oktyabr wrote: »

I got everything put back together, kicked the Vandersteen 2Cs out of the way and plugged the SDA2s back in. Got a different piece of speaker wire, was careful to make sure the BIG slot went to the BIG slot and so on and that no tiny threads of copper were being out of line and fired them back up.

No overheating problems now! The tweeter for the dimensional effect on the left speaker seems to be gone but other than that they sound MUCH better than without any SDA interconnect.

I really expected the sound stage to broaden with this system in place and rather it was to the contrary. Where I thought my SDA2s resembled Magnepans in an almost too big sound stage (at least in my room) with my improvised SDA IC in place they actually seemed to tighten up a bit... which I like.

I could say that during the intro drum hits to Dire Straits "Money For Nothing" they didn't have quite the hit you in the chest type bass as some of the monster Teledyne ARs I've owned but I'm still amazed that the SDA-2 has the sort of bass it does!

The easiest comparison is to my pair of Vandersteen 2Cs which I've been rotating in and out with the Polk for the last 24 hours. The 2Cs are, in my opinion, near the top of the heap of speakers you can buy under $1000. Like the SDA2's they hit deeper than you would imagine looking at them. Like the SDA2s they also have a brilliant soundstage (when placed properly) and disappear quite nicely when I close my eyes.

The biggest difference, again IMHO, is that the 2Cs seem a bit more discrete about where an instrument is in the stereo sound field. I know I prefer a speaker that does this and most of the pairs that have spent any serious time in my living room share this quality... I don't like beamy speakers that require exactly the right placement (that will never happen in my small, crowded living room) or exactly the right seating spot to fully enjoy. The other side of the coin is similar... a speaker that broadcasts it's sound too broadly, many multi-directional speakers share this, might have a broad "sweet spot" but also muddy up the imaging to the point where it becomes more difficult to tell exactly what side of the stereo image the mixer wanted instrument "A" and vocalist "X".

As I mentioned before I think the SDA2s exhibited this more without the SDA IC in place than it does with it.

Anyway I gave the SDA2's a more serious listen tonight with some of my reference tracks. These were played at a range of volume from "light background" to damn near concert reference and the SDA2s didn't give up! I have no idea why they sound as good as they do... in my mind that collection of relatively small drivers and one radiator just *shouldn't* produce that volume of sound, both high in quality and quantity. I'm pleased with my purchase So is "the boss" who gave his approval during a 0 db (on the big knob) playback of Eric Clapton's "Motherless Child":

"Snibby tested, Snibby approved!"

I don't have hands on experience with your exact model, but think it strange that the soundstage would narrow with the SDA IC in place. In my experience, the soundstage has always been broader with than without the IC. The SDA 2 is different in that it has tweeters placed horizontally versus stacked vertically, but even so it seems suspect that your soundstage shrunk.

It's also a concern that one SDA effect tweeter seem dead, but I do know that with your specific model many disconnect both SDA (outboard) tweeters. At some point Polk quit putting a tweeter in the SDA circuit.

hearingimpared

inspiredsports wrote: »

I don't have hands on experience with your exact model, but think it strange that the soundstage would narrow with the SDA IC in place. In my experience, the soundstage has always been broader with than without the IC. The SDA 2 is different in that it has tweeters placed horizontally versus stacked vertically, but even so it seems suspect that your soundstage shrunk.

I'm of the same opinion. If anything with the dimentional tweeter the soundstage should be enveloping. Very curious.

I have a pair of orginal CRSs modded by Doro and refinished by F1nut and it has the dimentional tweeters. Sometimes it sounds like surround sound where some instruments are flying over my head.

PolkMaster1

hearingimpared wrote: »

I'm of the same opinion. If anything with the dimentional tweeter the soundstage should be enveloping. Very curious.

I have a pair of orginal CRSs modded by Doro and refinished by F1nut and it has the dimentional tweeters. Sometimes it sounds like surround sound where some instruments are flying over my head.

I agree with Hearing. If you can hear surround sound and great stereo imaging from 2 speakers such as SDAs, you have a phenominal speaker.

PolkMaster1

Oktyabr wrote: »

"Snibby tested, Snibby approved!"

KEEP SNIBBY AWAY FROM THE SPEAKERS!!!


This is the ultimate test of any SDA Speaker -

When Snibby is sleeping balled up in front of the speaker during a quiet passage, mute the volume, turn the video to an exploding scene, turn up the knob, and watch Snibby run for his life!!!

Oh that is so much fun! Its a thing of beauty.

Make sure to youtube the results and send us the hyperlink. :cool: