Conrad Johnson PV-5 Tube Preamp

Dawgfish

Hello everyone,

I have found someone close by that is selling a Conrad Johnson PV-5 tube Preamp. The seller says that the tubes have recently been replaced with new OEM tubes and the unit is in excellent shape. I have always heard good things about CJ products, but have never heard any of them personnaly. Does anyone have any experience with this pre and if so how was it? How would you describe the sound? Also, what do think a fair asking price is for the Pre? Thanks in advance for your help.

Steve

TroyD

I wouldn't pay more than, oh, 450...

That said, you will get a warm, GLORIOUS midrange. Lush, liquid.....the lows will be warm and a bit mushy and the high end will lack air and phenomenal extension.

I'm a big fan of CJ gear....I get wood just thinking about it. There are those that like a more analytical sound and if that is you...well, it may not be for you. The phono stage is very good too.

BDT

Dawgfish

Thanks TroyD,

I am looking for that lush, warm sound, but I do like some detail in my highs (I'm an ex drummer who likes to here the detail in the cymbols, especailly for jazz). I like my highs to be accurate and detailed without being overly extended or harsh. Do you at least get some decent detail in the highs with this Pre?

I'm glad to here that about the phono stage also, as this was a big concern of mine. I got the seller down to $490 right now, but I would definitely like to get him down to the $450 mark. We'll see.

Steve

TroyD

Yeah, I don't mean to imply that it's muted on top...but it's not harsh at all. Detail is there, for sure, but they have round edges if that makes sense. Musical above all.

Oh, I think you will like it...I don't think it's a 'statement' preamp but for the cash, it's pretty damn good.

BDT

Dawgfish

Thanks again for the reply. I've been wanting to get a good tube pre in the mix for a while now, so this may fit the bill if I can get him down on price. From what you are describing, it sounds like what I'm looking for. Should be an interesting weekend.

Ted, if you're reading this, don't worry, I'm going to "show you some love" first before making any other purchases.

Steve

reeltrouble1

get the pre.

Tubes Rule

RT1

tonyb

Troy did a damn near perfect discription of the sound of early CJ pre's. I second picking it up but would try and talk the guy down in price.

inspiredsports

I've had a CJ PV-7 since December 29th, only my second tube preamp since getting an old Dynaco PAS-3 in September. The PV-7 is based on the PV-5 and I believe 2 years newer and very similar in design..

Paired with my NAD 2600A SS amp, a week ago I would have agreed 100% Troy's description of bass, mids and highs. Then my just rebuilt Musical Fidelity X10 v3 tube buffer came back from the modding company in Scotland. I think the CJ tube pre is higher impedance output, and the SS amp likes a bit lower impedance feed, the tube buffer is a match made in heaven.

Now in addition to that lush mid-range, the bass is quick and tight, and the highs are much more detailed (but absolutely not fatiguing). The tube buffer made and incredible improvement and it is still breaking in.

Point being, I don't think that preamp to amp impedance matches are considered by most people. Until I read an article about this, I had no idea myself.

There was a PV-5 that just closed for almost $900 on eBay yesterday so some out there sure still like it!

P.S.: There is a PV-7 that just showed up on eBay currently under $400 (mine closed at $550 shipped) that looks nice but has a what appears to be a burnt mark on the circuit board just in front of the transformer.

outlander

Many believe the PV-5 was the best sounding preamp CJ ever made.
O

inspiredsports

outlander wrote: »

Many believe the PV-5 was the best sounding preamp CJ ever made.
O

I gave the insides of the PV-5 a second look and Conrad Johnson actually REMOVED components when they supposedly "upgraded" to the PV-7. I know CJ advertised at the time that they were "trying to streamline the signal path" with the 7, but it might have actually been a cost cutting exercise with some marketing spin applied.

The power supply section of the PV-5 looks more robust and the unit features a stereo/mono selector that was removed from the PV-7.

The PV-5 is also "tubier" with 2 each 12AX7, 4 each 5751 and 2 each 5965 for a total of 8 tubes where the PV-7 has just 5 (3 each 12AX7 and 2 each 12AT7).

I think the capacitor selection on the PV-7 may have been improved, but otherwise I think the PV-5 looks to be constructed better inside. Replacing the caps in a mid '80's unit is inevitable after 20+ years so this is not even a negative consideration now.

Based upon my excellent results with the PV-7, and especially if the PV-5 sounds even better, one in the $500 range would be a no-brainer. I would love to get my hands on a PV-5 for a side-by-side comparison.

Dawg, if you pass and the 5 is still available, would you be willing to share the sellers contact info with me?

disneyjoe7

I know I love my PV-5 pre amp.

inspiredsports

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

I know I love my PV-5 pre amp.

Has yours been re-capped or have you found they are still OK? Am I correct the PV-5 is 1984 where my PV-7 is 1986?

I know 20+ years is a long time in cap years, but judging by the sound quality mine sure seem to be OK.

Let me know if you are ever thinking of letting yours go!

disneyjoe7

I brought it used and I believe it's been factory upgraded, I seen another PV-5 amp and it looked different? The caps, the volume control looked different perhaps upgraded.

Dawgfish

Thanks for all of the great info everyone. I haven't bought the pre yet. I've had some unexpected expenses come up, so that has forced me to set this aside till the next paycheck. The seller still has it as of now, and I'm just hoping he has it when I have the funds available in another week and a half or so. Inspiredsports, if he still has it then and I still can't purchace the unit, I'll be glad to forward his contact info to you. I have full intentions of buying this thing though when I get my next paycheck, but you never know when more unexpected things pop up (like last week). If I don't buy it, I'll be happy to pass a good deal onto another CP member like yourself.

Steve

inspiredsports

Dawgfish wrote: »

Thanks for all of the great info everyone. I haven't bought the pre yet. I've had some unexpected expenses come up, so that has forced me to set this aside till the next paycheck. The seller still has it as of now, and I'm just hoping he has it when I have the funds available in another week and a half or so. Inspiredsports, if he still has it then and I still can't purchace the unit, I'll be glad to forward his contact info to you. I have full intentions of buying this thing though when I get my next paycheck, but you never know when more unexpected things pop up (like last week). If I don't buy it, I'll be happy to pass a good deal onto another CP member like yourself.

Steve

Thanks Steve,

I sure hope you can swing it. With the wide variety of cap choices now out there that weren't available in the mid '80's, a couple more hundred dollars into that pre could make it permanent fixture!

Greg

outlander

I have the PV-1 (built in 1977) when and if it dies I plan to look for a PV-5 based on the many great things I’ve heard about that preamp. In regard to the caps, the only caps I’ve had to replace in the PV-1 are the aluminum electrolytics in the power supply section. The mylar, polyester and ceramic caps in the signal section are still fine.
O

dcmeigs

I love my PV-10. I've read the above posts and agree with about everything that's been said and that's not gonna happen every day! As for price, you will find them in the second hand audio shops for around $500, a little less if they don't have the phone stage. You definitely want the phono stage, right?

One thing I'd like to add. If the caps are in good shape, it should be dead quiet. Stick your ear into the speaker and listen for that 120 hz hum. You should hear nothing. If you do, plan on taking a hundred and a half or so off the price because you'll need to spend some time recapping it.

inspiredsports

outlander wrote: »

I have the PV-1 (built in 1977) when and if it dies I plan to look for a PV-5 based on the many great things I’ve heard about that preamp. In regard to the caps, the only caps I’ve had to replace in the PV-1 are the aluminum electrolytics in the power supply section. The mylar, polyester and ceramic caps in the signal section are still fine.
O

dcmeigs wrote: »

I love my PV-10. I've read the above posts and agree with about everything that's been said and that's not gonna happen every day! As for price, you will find them in the second hand audio shops for around $500, a little less if they don't have the phone stage. You definitely want the phono stage, right?

One thing I'd like to add. If the caps are in good shape, it should be dead quiet. Stick your ear into the speaker and listen for that 120 hz hum. You should hear nothing. If you do, plan on taking a hundred and a half or so off the price because you'll need to spend some time recapping it.

When I bought my PV-7, I noticed the photos of the power stage looked different from what I had found elsewhere on the Internet. The listing never mentioned it, but when it arrived it had a 2006 receipt direct from Conrad Johnson for a complete power supply section rebuild (everything but the transformer). I guess this is a know issue with several of these vintage models, but I think it is actually good because you can negotiate dollars off and then fix it up and be essentially starting "new".

As far as the other caps, I know mine still sounds great, but it seems to be common practice to assume caps have drifted off value after 20 years and to plan for a rebuild.

At any rate, I'm now itching for a 5!

inspiredsports

Background:

Dawgfish (Steve), was able to go a different route for a tube preamp and was kind enough to share CJ PV 5 seller's information with me. The seller is about 60 miles away from Dawg and does not have a PayPal account. This seller made me a fair deal, but I had no confidence in sending him cash or a check.

Now here's what I love about the brotherhood of CP . . .

Wow . . . Voila!, going way beyond introducing me to the seller, the Dawg offers to drive to the seller, make the deal and ship the unit on up to me here in Ohio. (I'm hoping he will have a listen to it if he wants)

I've sent the funds to Dawgfish and he's going to complete the deal this weekend.

I will then perform a head to head with the new PV 5 versus my PV 7 and one or the other will be showing up in the FS thread in 4 or 5 weeks. (I'm listening to the sweet PV 7 right now and it's going to be hard to beat!).

tonyb

The Polk dudes rule...congrats and look forward to your um..head to head.

Don't take that the wrong way my man.:)

unidyn

inspiredsports wrote: »

I gave the insides of the PV-5 a second look and Conrad Johnson actually REMOVED components when they supposedly "upgraded" to the PV-7. I know CJ advertised at the time that they were "trying to streamline the signal path" with the 7, but it might have actually been a cost cutting exercise with some marketing spin applied.

Hi, I was reading various PV-5 info and came about this thread> I only joined so I could comment to the above. It should be clear that even though the PV-7 came after the PV-5 (and is a higher number), it should not be misinterpreted with being a replacement in the same category that the PV-5 was in. Those are not considered equal by design, sonics or price category.

The PV-6 succeeded the PV-5 and was a simpler, less exepnsive contender. The numerical heirarchy was now blurred and confusing due to the PV-6 being a downgrade in the PV line-up. The PV-7 followed the PV-6 shortly after and indeed was an intended direct replacement and performance improvement, but still below the sonic integrity of the PV-5. It wasn't until the PV-8 did a CJ preamp supercede the PV-5 by design. Ironically, the PV-9 also was the next performance step following the PV-8, BUT the PV-10 picked up where the PV-7 left off.

I just wanted to clarify the easy to make assumption that the PV preamp line-up can be interpreted as better units as the numbers go up. I love the PV-5 and speculate that it was indeed more of a "junior" Premier pedigree than part of the PV's offspring, which threw a wrench in the PV line's lineage. It has a firm following and is a legend amongst all CJ preamps.

disneyjoe7

Welcome Unidyn to Club Polk, great info can I ask your back ground as you seem to know about CJ pre amps rather well.

inspiredsports

unidyn wrote: »

Hi, I was reading various PV-5 info and came about this thread> I only joined so I could comment to the above. It should be clear that even though the PV-7 came after the PV-5 (and is a higher number), it should not be misinterpreted with being a replacement in the same category that the PV-5 was in. Those are not considered equal by design, sonics or price category.

The PV-6 succeeded the PV-5 and was a simpler, less exepnsive contender. The numerical heirarchy was now blurred and confusing due to the PV-6 being a downgrade in the PV line-up. The PV-7 followed the PV-6 shortly after and indeed was an intended direct replacement and performance improvement, but still below the sonic integrity of the PV-5. It wasn't until the PV-8 did a CJ preamp supercede the PV-5 by design. Ironically, the PV-9 also was the next performance step following the PV-8, BUT the PV-10 picked up where the PV-7 left off.

I just wanted to clarify the easy to make assumption that the PV preamp line-up can be interpreted as better units as the numbers go up. I love the PV-5 and speculate that it was indeed more of a "junior" Premier pedigree than part of the PV's offspring, which threw a wrench in the PV line's lineage. It has a firm following and is a legend amongst all CJ preamps.

Thanks!

When repaired/upgraded I'm guessing the PV-5 will be my go to pre for some time to come.

unidyn

disneyjoe7 wrote: »

Welcome Unidyn to Club Polk, great info can I ask your back ground as you seem to know about CJ pre amps rather well.

Hi disneyjoe7 and thanks for the gracious welcome! As far as knowing CJ well, I've always pined for one and have wanted a PV-5 ever since it was produced. I'm not an expert by any means and hope I didn't seem condescending or a know-it-all regarding the preamp line-up. I used to work in audio sales and had advocated we take on the CJ line but it never materialized. I'm just a big fan

My core system consists of a Perreaux SM2 preamp, Acoustat TNT-120 power amp and Thiel 03A's, which replaced my Acoustat 2+2's. I toy around with the idea of finding a nice PV-5 and replacing the SM2, which is really a fantastic piece in itself, but a PV-5 with early Thiels, particularly the CS3 is real magic IMHO. As mentioned earlier by others in the thread, a good used PV-5 can be counted on to fetch at least $550 and due to the age would likely need to go back to CJ for a run-through and/or retubed, so it's not uncommon to see people invest another $300-$400. The other aspect that makes their tube amp/pre's special is the synergy with what they're paired with. For instance my Thiel's are pretty flat and extended at the top and not everyone cares for that, but that's what makes everything that comes before them so important to really showcase the quality inherent in the design. The CJ preamps compliment this so well IMO, not because they're
lackluster by any means. My SM2 sounds fine but has a more clinical, zippy presentation that is obvious on certain material or sources. The CJ's just fall into place with my Thiels, but the Acoustat has a certain amount of influence in that as well. Sigh...I'm getting closer and someday when the kids are through college and I have a little play money to tweak it further I'll get there! Sorry, I gush over stuff like this and maybe this sheds some light on why I kind of have a handle on the progression of their PV line, at least up to the PV10.

@ inspiredsports, I hope your PV-5 will be every bit what you've kind of been built up to believe. Since the age of 14 in 1974 I aspired to discovering the best audio had to offer. I could certainly never afford it but I sure took every opportunity to listen to anything everywhere I could. Not so much in touch as I used to be, I still enjoy it immensely as obviously everyone here does. To this day, my recall of the experience listening to CJ Premier amp and pre through Thiel CS3's, sourced by an Ariston RD80 turntable with Sumiko Talisman S MC cartridge (CJ MC pre-preamp). I've since listened to Duntech's, Wilson's, Soundlabs, etc via Audio Research, Krell, Levinson, Classe and much of the best and as impressive as they've all been, nothing captured the magic like that comparatively humble system did. Maybe I'm lucky to be satisfied with less but that sytem summed up everything I love about listening to music and nothing since has changed that. I've heard good taste is timeless, and in my case I agree 100%

I must apologize, this is a Polk community and I've been a pit of a prat barging in with nothing to contribute about them. The last pair of Polks I listened to were the Monitor Series and RTA's. Jaimesons' Stereo in Toledo, Ohio carried the whole line in the 70's and I would frequent that store. I later worked there but it was well after they stopped carrying them. There was a huge following for them indeed and for years Polk was one of their best selling products.

disneyjoe7

Nice background of yourself, again thanks.... Stick around.

TroyD

Hellz yeah....what he said.

BDT

dorokusai

Excellent post.

inspiredsports

unidyn wrote: »

@ inspiredsports, I hope your PV-5 will be every bit what you've kind of been built up to believe . . . I must apologize, this is a Polk community and I've been a pit of a prat barging in with nothing to contribute about them.

Welcome aboard!

Don't forget that Polk's don't work without all of the associated gear, so you have plenty to contribute here.

Greg

reeltrouble1

maybe you could stick around, you already got five bonus potential points for knowing....TUBES RULE.

you should know 5 is the top prize, well, you dont exactly get a prize, but you can come to our Polkfest, where you will be welcomed, although the occasional newb does have their ears measured as pistol grips.......hehehehe j/k, but not about the Fest its a blast so hang around and check out the CP crazies, we love audio and all kinds of speakers.

RT1

dkg999

I have a CJ PV10L setting on a shelf in the closet. It's got some issues and needs to go in for a complete service check and rebuild. Somewhere in its history prior to me someone figured any tube that would fit the tube sockets where the correct tubes. I love the smell of burnt electronics in the morning! I've listened to a PV7 in a system with other gear I'm familiar with and it had a very warm engaging sound with the Anthem amp and Totem speakers in the system. If the PV5 is of a similar sound signature I wouldn't hesitate to put the money in it to have the rebuild and re-tube done.

disneyjoe7

I'm glad I got a PV-5 before I got anything else. I love it.