Best Speakers in the world.

VR3 · April 2003

I hear people talking about the LSI's being honest, too honest, literally destroying bad recordings. Is it not me, but lets say you buy a pair of $50,000 speakers, a 10,000 amp, 10,000 CD Player, 5,000 Pre, and 1,000 Speaker Wire. This is all nice equipment! Yep! Sure is! So, we go out to walmart right? We buy a average, non expensive, not the best recording in the world right? What will those speakers sound like? what? can you tell me? I know! I know! Like, SHEAT! Why? Because its a 76,000 system and it is brutely honest and even the littleist flaw makes them sound bad! So, to my point, people talk about buying expensive speakers, that are so accurate, so perfect that they literally destroy recordings, and this is what they are looking for. Explain this, I buy a stereo, and I want to enjoy it! But guess what, thanks to how perfect they are I can't! Hello! *McFly*!
I am just rambling, been watching Treasure Planet and been thinking how bad VHS sounds! lol! Anyway, someone explain the pluses about buying an expensive rig when you can't enjoy it? lol! It leaves me stupid! Anyway, speakers like the RTxxxi and the RTixxx series are my favorite kind of speaker. Not perfect, not totally accurate, but sounds good, has some THD, but it dosn't destroy anything. Now that, I can jam to and enjoy! Maybe it's just me, but thats what I like. LSi's, man i would throw them out the window if they destroyed all my rock cds, which they would since all my rock cd's have just about 0 sound quality! Anyway, ignore this post, I am rambling!

polkatese · April 2003

That's the beauty of this hobby, Sid....you appreciate good recordings, the piano, brass section, bongo, snare drum, and so on, and so forth. That's how you get hooked to SACD, LP's, rip and sampling cd's at 192 and up...

VR3 · April 2003

I can't stand that music. I might when I turn 80 years old and I have to glue my hair to my head. But right now the closest thing that is 'music' that I appreciate is Dream Theater.

Frank Z · April 2003

High dollar does not always equal Hi Fidelity.

Steve@3dai · April 2003

Originally posted by Frank Z
High dollar does not always equal Hi Fidelity.

You sir are correct.

You'll appreciate the extra money you spend on equipment when you get an album that is produced "just right" and absolutely sounds amazing on your system. The hairs on the back of your neck will come up.

I've had that feeling a few times now

brettw22 · April 2003

It's a good thing that Sid likes "loud" music better than he likes "quality" music with his system. Your system could play quality music fairly well, but at what....15? you're not lookin to go for any type of music other than crap.

(not doggin on your system at all Sid. You've said several times how you like LOUD...)

mantis · April 2003

O WOW!!!

ok here it goes.........

What sid is talking about here is his opnion of how he feels about his system compared to high end systems.His stly of music doesn't really warrant high caliber gear due to the fact he like heavy rock music very loud.Very understandable to me as I once felt as he did to a point.....I loved heavy metal in the 80's,thats pretty much ALL I listened to.I am also a musican.I love pure sound.Back then I didn't care for music like Jazz.Today I love it.I'm guessing I matured into jazz.
For some reason as well,I also grew into liking better sounding gear.Owning gear all of my life,well since I was 7,I always wanted better sounding gear.It started there and moved up.
Today I like to listen to rock music but I don't enjoy it all the time.The older recordings on cd with rock music was horrible.Playing them at high volumes all distorted banging my head,sound quality never really came into play.I owned Panasonic Thrusters and I felt those speakers ruled as they could play really loud.
Over the years I started calming down,still enjoying ripping guitar tracks but wanted to hear a cleaner version.
OK,
High end gear can play rock music,speakers like B&W don't sound there best playing this type of music.Dynaudio actually will play rock music and it sounds well as good as the recording will allow.
So many high end speakers are very picky.Wilson audio is one of them.If you don't even set them up correectly,they sound terrible no matter what you play threw them.Martin Logans demand a large room.They sound terrible in smaller rooms.Picky as well.Dunlavy you can say is a middle of the road rock or all around style of speaker.They pretty much play everything well, but nowhere near the best overall.Big and crazy stupid they are.Speakers of high end all have there flaws as mid line speakers do.What they excell at and what they suck at seems to hold pretty true.
High dollar = higher fidelity????for the most part yes this is very true.You simply can't get the same quality of sound out of mid line products like high end.It just doesn't happen.Yes you can get great sadisfying sound quality but no match for high end.

You believe what you wanna believe.Feel the way you feel.In my opnion I never heard any system in my life sound Better then Krell mated with Dynaudio c4's.Only thing I can say even came close to that was Martin Logan Prodigy's mated with Audio Reasearch.Never had I heard any midline or any priced system sound better........with my experience I simply don't believe that.

Well I believe the point is if you can afford high end,well by all means.I dream of the day I own Krell and Dynaudio........untill then...........

rs159 · April 2003

I didn't even notice the internal noise of my sound card until I used headphones on my computer instead of the free speakers that came with it. Do you think mp3 would be as popular as it is now if everybody had good systems? Ever notice how popular Eminem is but how overdriven and overgained and bright and harsh and gritty and nasty most of his recordings are? Well of course YOU did, but the average Joe listenging through his OEM car stereo probably thinks it sounds great. It's true that high end equipment can make about 95% of all "Wal Mart" recordings sound like dog crap.

MX, videos used to only have linear audio tracks, but then when people started hooking up their VCRs to their stereos they realized how bad it sounded. So VCR sound was revamped and while it's an improvement, I would put it somewhere between cassetes and CDs, it is clearer with better range than cassetes, but it still sounds gritty and not as good as a good CD.

VR3 · April 2003

RS, My DVD player sucks arse, 40-44, not loud bass, and it just sounds just like my VCR. Just plays louder. My VCR don't play as loud and dont sound as good but I use it more than the DVD Player!

::It's a good thing that Sid likes "loud" music better than he likes "quality" music with his system. Your system could play quality music fairly well, but at what....15? you're not lookin to go for any type of music other than crap. (not doggin on your system at all Sid. You've said several times how you like LOUD...):: Brett you are *kinda* right, I listen to rock music a whole lot. But lately I usually dont go past -35 (which to me isnt loud), when I hear a song I really like I either turn it on -27 or -30. That is loud, and that is when i just really get into the music. At -35, I just enjoy and listen to it.

My system can rip apart recordings that are bad enough. The Extreme Days soundtrack totally sucks in recording quality and has awesome songs. I didnt realize how bad the recordings were when I had the yammer, but once I heard it on the adcom the recording was just ripped apart literally.

I have heard martin logans, but right now, the music I like, the sound I like, right now - it did nothing for me. I think B&W is like a higher dollar Bose! They have the name, the advertising, they have everything Bose has, just finer products. But for the money.....umm........no. They sound good, but not worth the price tag. I havn't heard the Nauts.

My Dad talks about getting a Wilson Audio, Krell, Mcintosh system one day. I mean this is all well and good but I mean I don't think any system is worth a 500,000 price tag. I just couldn't enjoy it, because once I layed down 50,000 alone my expectations would be all the way through the roof and into the moon's center! If it couldn't live up to my expectations, and if I couldn't enjoy it. Then it's not worth it. I mean this is me! lol! Mantis, you are probally right, I would rather mature into jazz than country! EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

mantis · April 2003

Don't you guys feel picking on Bose is a waste of time????
Most of the guys in here don't like them for there own reasons.........lets let it die already

VR3 · April 2003

mmmmmmmmmmmmaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyybe

Ceruleance · April 2003

MX isnt your DVD player just a transport for the DACs in your brand new pioneer? are you complaining about that?

VR3 · April 2003

Man I don't even know wtf a transport dac is! I use my DVD Player to play DVD's. I am getting a new DVD Player soon, but in your reply you totally lost me man!

rs159 · April 2003

MX, how is your dvd connected? If you make an analog connection you are using the digital-analog converter (dac) internal to your dvd player. If the connection is digital you only use the dvd player to pick up the ones and zeros which are then passed throught cable (still as ones and zeros) to the receiver which decodes them into analog.

STUFFMD · April 2003

You know..My dad had Mac, Dahlquist, Tandberg and B&O equipment....and I don't ever remember the music sounding bad.....of course some outstanding ( like the 1812 on original master..or power and the majesty) ..but never bad...and that equipment at the time wasn't in the stratosphere as far as $$$$$ and equipment go...Maybe it was the age, maybe it was the equipment matchup,,,I don't get that now with my current gear...but I am closer than I have ever been on my own......Ahhhh the good old days.
Stuff

MxStYlEpOlKmAn · April 2003

RS, AV Cables. Probally S-Video later on along with AV Cables.

rs159 · April 2003

What does S-Video have to do with sound?

MxStYlEpOlKmAn · April 2003

nothing, its hooked up via AV Cables man!

rs159 · April 2003

MX, have you ever tried, no, even thought about using the Pioneer's DAC? Unless you listen to SACD or you have a POS DAC in your receiver theres really no point in using analog to connect a dvd player to a modern receiver. To much in the signals way, IMO. First, it goes through one jack into the cable then it goes into another jack, then it goes through God knows what internal to the receiver before it finally hits the amps. With digital you either give it a one, a zero, or nothing. On or off. There in full fidelity or non existent. With digital you don't have two jacks and an interconnect in the signal path. Considering the quality of your interconnects ("Radio Shack is where I get all my cables" - MX), not sending a signal through them should open your eyes a little wider...

...But considering what you said by starting this thread that may be good or bad, just decide for yourself.

¿Comprendes?

MxStYlEpOlKmAn · April 2003

So how exactly would you connect the DVD Player up then. Pictures even? Im not sure how to do it this way.

rs159 · April 2003

Originally posted by MxStYlEpOlKmAn
So how exactly would you connect the DVD Player up then. Pictures even? Im not sure how to do it this way.

:rolleyes:

MxStYlEpOlKmAn · April 2003

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! I will try that...............when I get some spair cash!

shack · April 2003

Originally posted by rs159
Unless you listen to SACD or you have a POS DAC in your receiver theres really no point in using analog to connect a dvd player to a modern receiver. To much in the signals way, IMO. First, it goes through one jack into the cable then it goes into another jack, then it goes through God knows what internal to the receiver before it finally hits the amps. . With digital you either give it a one, a zero, or nothing. On or off. There in full fidelity or non existent. With digital you don't have two jacks and an interconnect in the signal path.

As a blanket statement this is not true. Depending on the quality of the CD/DVD player, the DAC may be better (or have a sound that one prefers) than the DAC in the receiver. Some of todays DVD players have very good DACs and most modern AV receivers have analog pass through so there is no processing of the signal at all. I use the DACs on my CD player all of the time for music whether it is SACD or Redbook. I tried both ways and preferred the sound using the CD player's DAC. I don't use high dollar interconnects either (modestly priced Audioquest). Try both ways and see which sounds better.

I do use digital cable for my DVD player for movies only.

HBombToo · April 2003

Well said shack... I also use audioquest and am content. I enjoy both the the sound of my Cal Audio CL20 and my Audio Research DAC5. Its nice to have an option.

HBomb

rs159 · April 2003

Originally posted by shack

As a blanket statement this is not true. Depending on the quality of the CD/DVD player, the DAC may be better (or have a sound that one prefers) than the DAC in the receiver. Some of todays DVD players have very good DACs and most modern AV receivers have analog pass through so there is no processing of the signal at all. I use the DACs on my CD player all of the time for music whether it is SACD or Redbook. I tried both ways and preferred the sound using the CD player's DAC. I don't use high dollar interconnects either (modestly priced Audioquest). Try both ways and see which sounds better.

I do use digital cable for my DVD player for movies only.

I was just saying. If you use an entry level DVD player and Radio Shack cables then the results probably will not be as good as the receivers DAC. If you buy a DVD player for it's sound and you use premium cables and you have a receiver that doesn't process the signal any further then rock on.

Another thing to consider is bass management. A lot of receivers you can't use this if you use analog. The exception might be if you have something like the Outlaw ICBM (Integrated Controlled Bass Manager), but then that doesn't come free with the receiver, now does it?

I'm not arguing for or against digital, but I think if price is no option then you can get a stellar CD, SACD, or DVD-A player and use analog and get better results than the receiver's DAC (provided that you use a receiver, which you probably would not for the "audiophile" type of system I'm describing). If you use an entry level DVD player but you have a decent receiver then you would probably get better results with digital. It all depends on the type of system you have, and if both DACs are just as "good" but have a different sound then it's personal taste.

Ceruleance · April 2003

Shack, Audioquest's are not moderately priced, not a single model. Not saying they arent worth it or arent great, but for this discussion I wouldnt call their performance or price average. However I can agree with the spirit of your post, almost every system my parents or I have owned has better DACs in the dvd than in the receiver.

shack · April 2003

Ceruleance, I use Audioquest G-Stings for ± $16 per .5 meter set and the Sidewinders for ± $25 per .5 meter. Where I come from that is moderately priced. Maybe we have different definitions of moderate.

MxStYlEpOlKmAn · April 2003

10 bucks for 6 feet! Thats enough for me! Ratshack style!

joe logston · April 2003

mx, mantis is selling some toslink optic cables for cheap they would work as a digital pass though to the receiver dacs. try it and see if you get and improvement

joe logston · April 2003

my self i use a da converter as my 2 channel dacs. i pass the digital signal from a sony dv-s-7000 dvd player as a transport.
mx there is a lot of obtions you can go with, im showing mine as a example, just try and find out with is best for you

Best Speakers in the world.

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