OPPO BDP-83 (Non-SE) Official Discussion Thread

Mike LoManaco

Not sure if this was begun by an owner yet, but figured I would get it off the ground so folks could discuss settings, operations, suggestions, tweaks, etc. for the player. I have run into some snafus during setup already, and can't seem to get that much from OPPO even with seemingly infinite amounts of correspondence.

Here's what I posted in the Special Edition thread for now; I'll post my other settings and thoughts at another time. Let's hear about your settings, experiences, etc. with the player!


I don't know about the Special Edition version of this player, but I haven't been too impressed with the performance of the standard model; I have been going back and forth with OPPO's support since the player arrived and we've corresponded with countless amounts of e-mails already trying to figure out the problems.

For starters, after I reported to them that the DVD upconversion didn't look that "breathtaking" (as everyone is reporting it to be) with the Anchor Bay processor, they recommended I change these settings under HDMI OPTIONS:

Deep Color: 36-Bits (instead of OFF)
Color Space: 4:4:4 (instead of AUTO)

They told me to leave De-interlacing and CUE Correction settings at AUTO, and when I pressed them about my display/any software right now not supporting Deep Color, they ensured me that keeping the BDP-83 to "36-Bits" will force the player to operate and sample at a higher, better rate than keeping it OFF, even if a display or software doesn't support it.

Further, I ran the de-interlacing and processing tests on the included Spears & Munsil calibration Blu-ray, and these patterns seemed to fail on my BDP-83 -- where the ABT chip is supposed to "take care" of these ringing/jaggies/noise issues, the player exhibited horrendous jagged edges on these tests at 1080p which didn't make sense to me. Real-world material doesn't seem to be so bad, but these tests indicate the jaggies are still horrendously there. When pressed about it, OPPO suggested the problem is in my display, not their player. Still trying to figure out the proper configuration for my BDP-83.

Ricardo

Mike LoManaco wrote: »

I have run into some snafus during setup already, and can't seem to get that much from OPPO even with seemingly infinite amounts of correspondence.[/i]

They fall asleep from boredom while reading your emails. Heard of a few suicides among CS reps.

digitalvideo

Is your setup a fully HDMI wired setup with all HDMI wires going through the reciever first and one HDMI wire from the reciever to the tv? Your Onkyo reciever might not have as good video processing as the Oppo player does if you're using your reciever to do the video processing. Let the Oppo do all the video processing and pass it straight through the reciever.

Here are some suggestions...

1.) Get a new 2010 Panasonic plasma high end model (when they come out)
2.) Set Oppo to 1080p/24fps when watching blurays.
2.) Set Oppo to 1080p/60 when watching dvd's.
4.) "IF" your reciever allows it, set it to "Auto" or "Pass through" using HDMI wires and let the Oppo do all the video processing.

You said you're not "impressed" with the dvd upconversion of the Oppo player. Dvd's will NEVER look as good as blurays because dvd's are not high definition and you can't convert them to HD. You will never be able to convert sd dvd to 1080p HD bluray quality. If your player is set to 1080p/24fps while watching dvd's you will see tearing and other artifacts, so you want to set the Oppo to 1080p/60 for dvd's and set it to 1080p/24fps when watching bluray. But your tv might not have the technology to support proper 1080p/24fps feature. The Pioneer and Panasonic plasma's have that feature. I wouldn't blame the Oppo since well over 95% of the people who have it are really impressed and like it a lot. I would look at your connections, where it's setup/wired and how good the technology is in your tv and reciever. Your tv's settings (color settings) might not be properly set to see the benefits of HD and dvd.

digitalvideo

The Oppo is not leaps and bounds ahead of any other recent bd player. Most bd players today have pretty good dvd upconversation and most of them are equal on bluray quality. You will NOT see much difference between the PS3, Sony stand alone players, Pioneer, Panasonic, Samsung, Toshiba, LG bd players and if you're expecting the Oppo to jump off the screen like no other then you set yourself up for a big let down.

cnh

Don't understand the above...the Onkyo has 1.3 HDMI repeaters...if its set to pass through; the Oppo will do all the processing and the Onkyo won't touch it at all...No?

Unless the Oppo doesn't place nice with the Onkyo; but I highly doubt that.

If the 605's conversion is activated it cannot do more than 480p if I'm not mistaken...I could be wrong...but the 605 is an early model, the first AVR to process HD bitstreams. But its video processing only reached 1080i upconversion in the 606.

cnh

digitalvideo

This is the tv Mike is using: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-dcrlvsCjNkd/p_15850A2020/Sony-KDS-50A2020.html

Emlyn

I plugged mine in and it works.

kuntasensei

You see, guys... Mike had to start a thread about this here, because he got thrown out of the official 900+ page thread over at AVSForum. By "Oppo support", he also means the countless people at AVS, including myself, who tried to tell him how to set his player up and ended up talking in circles because he refused to listen to anyone, even after people told him that perhaps the Oppo just wasn't for him.

Also, as he does with his movie reviews, he couldn't just post this IN THE EXISTING OPPO BDP-83 THREAD. If you're "Not sure if this was begun by an owner yet", Mike, the forum has a search function that works quite well.

Still, if anyone can help him fix his issues, please do. I warn you, however, that he previously stated that he likes to use edge enhancement to make the picture look sharper... so any discussion of proper calibration is probably going to be lost on him. My Oppo is on a 1080p projector and 100" screen, calibrated with an EyeOne Display LT and HCFR, and I can tell you without hesitation that there are no issues with ringing, jaggies or noise inherent to the player itself.

wutadumsn23

digitalvideo wrote: »

This is the tv Mike is using: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-dcrlvsCjNkd/p_15850A2020/Sony-KDS-50A2020.html

That is a nice set to, shouldn't have any problems if it is set up correctly. I have the KDS-60A2000, an earlier model of the SXRD series, but not much changed besides the color of the trim by the speaker at the bottom. Oh, and mine is a 60", lol.

-Jeff

vc69

kuntasensei wrote: »

Still, if anyone can help him fix his issues, please do. I warn you, however, that he previously stated that he likes to use edge enhancement to make the picture look sharper... so any discussion of proper calibration is probably going to be lost on him. My Oppo is on a 1080p projector and 100" screen, calibrated with an EyeOne Display LT and HCFR, and I can tell you without hesitation that there are no issues with ringing, jaggies or noise inherent to the player itself.

If he won't accept the fact that he needs to calibrate properly, there is no hope for this or any other player. Edge enhancement is a no-no. Period.

steveinaz

B-I-N-G-O. Either you want 2+2 to=4 or you don't. If you don't, you shouldn't expect anything else to line up correctly. You can't get reference quality if you're not willing to calibrate to reference standards.

Sherardp

kuntasensei wrote: »

You see, guys... Mike had to start a thread about this here, because he got thrown out of the official 900+ page thread over at AVSForum. By "Oppo support", he also means the countless people at AVS, including myself, who tried to tell him how to set his player up and ended up talking in circles because he refused to listen to anyone, even after people told him that perhaps the Oppo just wasn't for him.

Also, as he does with his movie reviews, he couldn't just post this IN THE EXISTING OPPO BDP-83 THREAD. If you're "Not sure if this was begun by an owner yet", Mike, the forum has a search function that works quite well.

Still, if anyone can help him fix his issues, please do. I warn you, however, that he previously stated that he likes to use edge enhancement to make the picture look sharper... so any discussion of proper calibration is probably going to be lost on him. My Oppo is on a 1080p projector and 100" screen, calibrated with an EyeOne Display LT and HCFR, and I can tell you without hesitation that there are no issues with ringing, jaggies or noise inherent to the player itself.

I already sort of figured there was a "catch". The OP has posted in the other BP83 threads if I stand correct. Not sure what the problem is, but hope he gets it worked out. As mention calibration is key, with any source to include the display.

shack

What the hell makes this an "OFFICIAL" discussion thread...other than the OP's self-aggrandized opinion of himself?

ryanjoachim

shack wrote: »

What the hell makes this an "OFFICIAL" discussion thread...other than the OP's self-aggrandized opinion of himself?

You mean...that's not enough??!!

Stacey Spears

I ran the de-interlacing and processing tests on the included Spears & Munsil calibration Blu-ray, and these patterns seemed to fail on my BDP-83 -- where the ABT chip is supposed to "take care" of these ringing/jaggies/noise issues, the player exhibited horrendous jagged edges on these tests at 1080p which didn't make sense to me.

Hi Mike,

I would like to see if I can help. I have some questions.

1. What is the output of the OPPO set to? (e.g. 1080p, Direct, etc...)
2. Which pattern are you looking at?
3. Which version of the pattern? VC-1 HD, VC-1 SD, or MPEG-2 SD?
4. What part of the pattern are you looking at when you say you see jaggies?

For number 4, lets assume you are looking at the SD (either VC-1 or MPEG-2) Jaggies pattern. There are at least three tests on this pattern.

1. Motion-adaptive Deinterlacing - This is the alternating black and white lines that make up the outer circle.
2. Edge-adaptive deinterlacing - This is the rotating white bar against the black background.
3. R&D - This is the area where the white bar passes through the alternating black and white lines.

For number 2, this is where you should see little or no jaggies.

For number 3, you will see severe jaggies around the bar as it passes through the black and white lines. This is OK, its not a jaggies test. This gives you some hints about the video deinterlacing. Is the flickering bowtie symmetrical? The ABT is symmetrical. Some others are not. Meaning the leading in is smaller or larger in width than the trailing end. At this time we can't say if one is better or worse, this is why I call number 3 R&D. Is the color the same on both ends (left and right) of the bowtie? Sometimes both ends are black or white and on others you see one end black and the other white. Again, can't say one is better than the other at this time.

Stacey Spears

Deep Color: 36-Bits (instead of OFF)
Color Space: 4:4:4 (instead of AUTO)

Both of these settings are chain dependent. Color space is pretty important to get right. Here are two examples.

1. OPPO -> Samsung SP-A800B or SP-A900B. You want to send 444 in this scenario.
2. OPPO -> DVDO VP50 Pro -> Samsung SP-A800B or SP-A900B. You want to send 422 from OPPO and 444 from DVDO.

We plan to explain how to figure out the best color space in an upcoming article.

vc69

Stacy, you are a gentlemen and a scholar.


Welcome to CP. I hope this thread isn't the last one you post in.

vmaxer

Stacey Spears wrote: »

Hi Mike,

I would like to see if I can help. I have some questions.

1. What is the output of the OPPO set to? (e.g. 1080p, Direct, etc...)
2. Which pattern are you looking at?
3. Which version of the pattern? VC-1 HD, VC-1 SD, or MPEG-2 SD?
4. What part of the pattern are you looking at when you say you see jaggies?

For number 4, lets assume you are looking at the SD (either VC-1 or MPEG-2) Jaggies pattern. There are at least three tests on this pattern.

1. Motion-adaptive Deinterlacing - This is the alternating black and white lines that make up the outer circle.
2. Edge-adaptive deinterlacing - This is the rotating white bar against the black background.
3. R&D - This is the area where the white bar passes through the alternating black and white lines.

For number 2, this is where you should see little or no jaggies.

For number 3, you will see severe jaggies around the bar as it passes through the black and white lines. This is OK, its not a jaggies test. This gives you some hints about the video deinterlacing. Is the flickering bowtie symmetrical? The ABT is symmetrical. Some others are not. Meaning the leading in is smaller or larger in width than the trailing end. At this time we can't say if one is better or worse, this is why I call number 3 R&D. Is the color the same on both ends (left and right) of the bowtie? Sometimes both ends are black or white and on others you see one end black and the other white. Again, can't say one is better than the other at this time.

Stacey Spears wrote: »

Both of these settings are chain dependent. Color space is pretty important to get right. Here are two examples.

1. OPPO -> Samsung SP-A800B or SP-A900B. You want to send 444 in this scenario.
2. OPPO -> DVDO VP50 Pro -> Samsung SP-A800B or SP-A900B. You want to send 422 from OPPO and 444 from DVDO.

We plan to explain how to figure out the best color space in an upcoming article.

WOW:D That is service!! Reminds me of a great speaker manufacturers customer service I've dealt with:cool::cool:

hearingimpared

Seems like spam to me. See sig.

kuntasensei

hearingimpared wrote: »

Seems like spam to me. See sig.

If you're referring to Stacy's post, I wouldn't consider it spam. He's active on other forums as well, and as the creator of the disc that comes with the Oppo BDP-83, he's probably worth listening to. Not that he'll be able to help Mike, because Mike hasn't listened to anyone's advice on this so far.

BlueFox

As a side note, last week I ran the BR test DVD that came with the Oppo BD83, and the only issue I had was a slight fluctuation in the grandstand as the race car first went by the stands. Other than that everyting was spot on. I guess getting my TV calibrated to ISF specs two years ago was worth it. However, I am running at 1080i since that is the best the TV (Hitachi 57" RPTV) can do.

However, I have a ISF tune-up scheduled for Friday morning since it has been two years. This will include taking the TV apart and cleaning the dust off the projectors, etc. I figured since I just upgraded my speaker wire in the HT, I better get the best performance possible out of the TV.

kuntasensei

Mike, I'm looking at the manual for your display. What settings are you using for DRC, Detail Enhancer and Edge Enhancer? It looks like DRC should be set to HIGH DENSITY when using a Blu-ray player. DE and EE may default to on if you're using the STANDARD picture mode, which would definitely cause ringing. Since the Oppo passes a source-accurate picture, you need to adjust these settings so that they are off so that you are passing an unadulterated signal to your set. Then, you should be able to adjust the Sharpness control using the S&M disc's patterns.

Stacey Spears

As a side note, last week I ran the BR test DVD that came with the Oppo BD83, and the only issue I had was a slight fluctuation in the grandstand as the race car first went by the stands.

All of the deinterlacing tests, except for the one called "24p", are encoded as interlaced with a pyhsical cadence pattern. You may see some moire until the deinterlacer locks onto the pattern. You may also see it lose lock when it loops. This usually occurs on the 2-2 tests because 2-2 is the most difficult pattern to detect.

The only time you will see it occur on the "24p" is if you are outputting as 1080i and something downstream must deinterlace.

On the "wedge", it may lose lock more often. It usually occurs around 2, 4, 8 or 10 o'clock and it is often just for a moment. The wedge is a synthetic clip and may contain frequenies not found in real-world content. Its easy to see the artifact, but you should never tune for the wedge. If so, it may actually do worse on real content. This is why we include both the wedge and the race car (Super Speedway). Super Speedway is actually pretty close to the wedge in terms of high frequency and is almost a worse case for live material. There is a scene in Gladiator that pans over the city. This is even more difficult, but is also synthetic.

hearingimpared

hearingimpared wrote: »

Seems like spam to me. See sig.

kuntasensei wrote: »

If you're referring to Stacy's post, I wouldn't consider it spam. He's active on other forums as well, and as the creator of the disc that comes with the Oppo BDP-83, he's probably worth listening to. Not that he'll be able to help Mike, because Mike hasn't listened to anyone's advice on this so far.

I stand corrected.

vc69

New Official Firmware Release


http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83/bdp-83-firmware-48-1224.aspx

Mike LoManaco

Hello Stacey,

Been following your threads over in other forums regarding getting some owners help on some of these issues; regardless of what you read here from members like "Kuntakensei," what I am describing has absolutely nothing to do with "wanting" edge enhancement and whatever else I am accused of wishing for with my setup. It's simply not true. And I didn't start the thread because of "ego" (the theme regarding this has gotten ridiculously tiring, and the mods are aware of it; it's simply not what it's about, no matter, again, what I am accused of). Additionally, this member's consistent, relentless attempts at derailing each and every thread I create (seemingly for personal reasons at this point) have lead to creating monumental-sized lies such as "he's not taken any advice so far"...it simply, again, isn't true.

As I said, I have followed your other threads elsewhere, and have indeed observed your attempts at assisting other users of the disc; your help would be most appreciated.

I will stick with conversing with you as you are one of the co-creators behind the disc; most of the others are on ignore, at any rate.

Stacey Spears wrote: »

Hi Mike,

I would like to see if I can help. I have some questions.

1. What is the output of the OPPO set to? (e.g. 1080p, Direct, etc...)

I have the player set to AUTO, which seems to be "picking", correctly, 1080p for my set (confirmed by pressing my Sony's remote's DISPLAY button).

2. Which pattern are you looking at?

The last couple of patterns that are on the disc -- the clips of the Brooklyn Bridge, the flag on the bridge, the ship, the rotating clock, etc.

3. Which version of the pattern? VC-1 HD, VC-1 SD, or MPEG-2 SD?

I need to re-confirm that next time I run it...I don't recall.

4. What part of the pattern are you looking at when you say you see jaggies?

With the "rotating clock," I am looking at that swinging bar that seems to exhibit breakup as it turns...with the ship, the sail lines and masts seem to exhibit un-smooth lines...with the bridge, the cables of the bridge are jagged and noisy.

For number 4, lets assume you are looking at the SD (either VC-1 or MPEG-2) Jaggies pattern. There are at least three tests on this pattern.

1. Motion-adaptive Deinterlacing - This is the alternating black and white lines that make up the outer circle.
2. Edge-adaptive deinterlacing - This is the rotating white bar against the black background.
3. R&D - This is the area where the white bar passes through the alternating black and white lines.

For number 2, this is where you should see little or no jaggies.

Have to re-confirm...

For number 3, you will see severe jaggies around the bar as it passes through the black and white lines. This is OK, its not a jaggies test. This gives you some hints about the video deinterlacing. Is the flickering bowtie symmetrical? The ABT is symmetrical. Some others are not. Meaning the leading in is smaller or larger in width than the trailing end. At this time we can't say if one is better or worse, this is why I call number 3 R&D. Is the color the same on both ends (left and right) of the bowtie? Sometimes both ends are black or white and on others you see one end black and the other white. Again, can't say one is better than the other at this time.

I will double check this, Stacey, thank you; but I know, for sure, the Brooklyn Bridge clip with the American flag is definitely showing banding and jagged edges, where the instructions claim there shouldn't be any -- nor in the flag.

Mike LoManaco

Stacey Spears wrote: »

Both of these settings are chain dependent. Color space is pretty important to get right. Here are two examples.

1. OPPO -> Samsung SP-A800B or SP-A900B. You want to send 444 in this scenario.
2. OPPO -> DVDO VP50 Pro -> Samsung SP-A800B or SP-A900B. You want to send 422 from OPPO and 444 from DVDO.

We plan to explain how to figure out the best color space in an upcoming article.

Okay; I am just reporting on what OPPO support recommended to me in terms of setting these options -- I went over this with them in countless e-mails, and their recommendations are always the same. They say to leave the Color Space at 4:4:4 and Deep Color at 36-Bits.

Mike LoManaco

digitalvideo wrote: »

Is your setup a fully HDMI wired setup with all HDMI wires going through the reciever first and one HDMI wire from the reciever to the tv?

Video,

Yes, the setup is completely HDMI-oriented; one HDMI OUT from the BDP-83 for audio and video transfer, to the Onkyo 605's HDMI IN, then a second HDMI OUT from the 605 to my Sony display's HDMI IN. That's it.

Your Onkyo reciever might not have as good video processing as the Oppo player does if you're using your reciever to do the video processing. Let the Oppo do all the video processing and pass it straight through the reciever.

The 605, in the way I am using it, is passing the video straight through the HDMI IN/HDMI OUT with NO processing.

Here are some suggestions...

1.) Get a new 2010 Panasonic plasma high end model (when they come out)
2.) Set Oppo to 1080p/24fps when watching blurays.
2.) Set Oppo to 1080p/60 when watching dvd's.
4.) "IF" your reciever allows it, set it to "Auto" or "Pass through" using HDMI wires and let the Oppo do all the video processing.

Another TV is not an option right now.
Cannot set 1080p/24 for Blu-rays because my display doesn't accept it.
The OPPO is set to 108p/60 for Blu-ray AND DVD.
The receiver IS passing through the signal, so the OPPO IS processing it.

You said you're not "impressed" with the dvd upconversion of the Oppo player. Dvd's will NEVER look as good as blurays because dvd's are not high definition and you can't convert them to HD. You will never be able to convert sd dvd to 1080p HD bluray quality.

I know this. I understand this and have from the launch of upconverting DVD players with HDMI capabilities; what I am saying is that for all the "hoopla" swirling around regarding the OPPO's scaling abilities, my DVDs haven't looked all that much cleaner or "better" than the previous Panasonic BD player I was using.

If your player is set to 1080p/24fps while watching dvd's you will see tearing and other artifacts, so you want to set the Oppo to 1080p/60 for dvd's and set it to 1080p/24fps when watching bluray. But your tv might not have the technology to support proper 1080p/24fps feature.

Right -- my display DOESN'T support 1080p/24, but from what I hear, it's not a mind-blowing change at any rate from /60; I know about the frame tearing issues with DVD at 1080p/24, but I'm not even using that feature.

The Pioneer and Panasonic plasma's have that feature. I wouldn't blame the Oppo since well over 95% of the people who have it are really impressed and like it a lot. I would look at your connections, where it's setup/wired and how good the technology is in your tv and reciever. Your tv's settings (color settings) might not be properly set to see the benefits of HD and dvd.

Again, my connections are ALL HDMI: HDMI IN/HDMI OUT from the receiver, with the display getting 1080p through (confirmed by the display's notation in the upper right corner).

Stacey Spears

With the "rotating clock," I am looking at that swinging bar that seems to exhibit breakup as it turns...with the ship, the sail lines and masts seem to exhibit un-smooth lines...with the bridge, the cables of the bridge are jagged and noisy.

The break-up does not sound normal. If you can better describe, I can look into it.

The bridge clip is noisy and has banding the in the source. There is also some pretty bad ringing if I recall correctly. It was stock footage I licensed. I have not seen anything do really well on it. The ship is also difficult. There are spots that clean up and others that do not. For example, the yellow stripes on the side of the ship clean up well. The ropes, do not clean up in all places. Where the horizontal and vertical ropes intersect on the mass of the ship, you can see difference in players. The point where they intersect will be jagged, but further to the left and right should be better. I think I have an example of this in the help, if you press the up arrow while the clip is playing.

You should compare the OPPO to your Sony and see the difference on the clips. I am not familiar with the display, so I don't know the level of quality, but try and compare them.

I would try this.

1. Set player to native (might be called direct) You can find this by pressing the resolution button on the remote. This will ensure the player outputs 480i over HDMI on step number 2.
2. Go to the setup screen on the disc and select VC-1 SD.
3. Go to source adaptive and start with Jaggies.

Look at this and then change the player resolution back to auto (or 1080p) and compare. Then do the same thing on ship and the bridge. The auto or 1080p should be OPPO/ABT processing while direct/native should be 480i and therefor display processing.

Sometimes it is difficult to know how something should look without looking at it on some other devices.

Mike LoManaco

cnh wrote: »

Don't understand the above...the Onkyo has 1.3 HDMI repeaters...if its set to pass through; the Oppo will do all the processing and the Onkyo won't touch it at all...No?

Right -- that's what I am trying to explain here; the 605 doesn't really have a "pass through" mode...what it does is take anything that's received at HDMI and simply passes it through with no video processing.

Unless the Oppo doesn't place nice with the Onkyo; but I highly doubt that.

Don't know about this, but it could be.

If the 605's conversion is activated it cannot do more than 480p if I'm not mistaken...I could be wrong...but the 605 is an early model, the first AVR to process HD bitstreams. But its video processing only reached 1080i upconversion in the 606.

cnh

The 605 CAN pass 1080p video over its HDMI repeaters. The only "issues" with these receivers come in when analog video is being converted to HDMI output; but that's not how I have it running. It's ONLY HDMI IN/HDMI OUT from this receiver, so the video from the OPPO should be going right through.

Stacey Spears

They say to leave the Color Space at 4:4:4 and Deep Color at 36-Bits.

Its not really bad advice. Once we get to our article, then you will be able to try the options and see what does the best. It involves looking at various patterns on the disc. We will point out what to look for and try and explain why certain artifacts occur. Right now we are trying to finish up our color article, which is a few months past due.