Double Duty – HT and Two Channel

CCNJ
CCNJ Posts: 384
edited April 2010 in 2 Channel Audio
My family room setup will serve double duty for HT and two channel listening. I need help upgrading electronics for two channel listening. I currently have Polk lsi9 (fronts), Polk lsic (center) , POLK OWM3 rears, Yamaha v765, emotive xpa-3 to power the fronts, and a Wadia i170 transport. I will be purchasing a Benchmark Dac1 shortly.

I am temporarily using a NAD 355BEE integrated for music but I have to keep swapping out the speaker wire whenever I switch from HT to music. I suppose that either an integrated amp or stereo pre-amp with HT Bypass would work better but I am only vaguely familiar with the HT Bypass function. I wanted to get some advice before I started accumulating gear again.

I am willing to spend about 3k on the used market on electronics. Which option would get me the best results

1) Buy a good integrated amp with HT Bypass like Bryston B100SST or Sim Audio Moon i3.3.

2) Buy a good two channel pre-amp with HT Bypass and replace the XPA-3 with a better multi-channel amp?

3) Just buy a good pre-amp with ht by-pass and keep the Emotiva XPA-3

4) Other suggestions are most welcome.

I am hoping to end up with a two channel setup that keeps me happy for a while.

Thanks.
Rig1 - Totem Hawks, Benchmark HDR, Parasound A21, Sonus, Samsung 52 LCD, Audioquest Type4
Rig2 - LFD LE IV Integrated, Harbeth P3ESR, Rega Dac, MF V-Link, IMAC, Audioquest Type4
Post edited by CCNJ on
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Comments

  • Serendipity
    Serendipity Posts: 6,975
    edited January 2010
    I like options # 1 and # 3.
    polkaudio RT35 Bookshelves
    polkaudio 255c-RT Inwalls
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    polkaudio XRT12 XM Tuner
    polkaudio RM6750 5.1

    Front projection, 2 channel, car audio... life is good!
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  • Jetmaker737
    Jetmaker737 Posts: 1,047
    edited January 2010
    My vote would be # 2 starting with this highly regarded preamp w/ HT bypass for sale here on CP:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94282

    You can get lots of good advice on amps by searching this forum.

    Edit: A nice amp can be found here as well:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94249
    SystemLuxman L-590AXII Integrated Amplifier|KEF Reference 1 Loudspeakers|PS Audio Directream Jr|Sansui TU-9900 Tuner|TEAC A-6100 RtR|Nakamichi RX-202 Cassette
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  • LuSh
    LuSh Posts: 887
    edited January 2010
    I would recommend going the integrated route via HT by-pass. Some four years ago many people on this forum thought it was a good idea to purchase power over finesse. I see constant threads from users asking if 200 WPC is enough or should they go 300 WPC, I doubt they're any further ahead with either option.

    I currently use a Yamaha RXV3900 for HT use and a SimAudio i-5 with HT by-pass connected to a pair of Dynaudio 52SE speakers. In the past I have used the same type of configuration with LSi9 speakers. I have used a SimAudio i-5080, Krell 400xi, Magnum Dynalab MD208 and currently my i-5. All the mentioned integrated amplifiers have had HT by-pass. I have seriously considered selling my solid state and moving to a PrimaLuna Dialogue which again has HT by-pass...it really is an amazing feature for gear heads like us.

    I currently own a Benchmark DAC1. I'm not a fan and will be selling it shortly, in the short term it was dead quiet and did all the 'mechanic's'...in the long term I've found it sterile and often shrill after prolonged listening. I have located a used Museatex Bitstream and will be moving back to it (I should have never sold it). I would consider using a MAC mini or PC and installing iTunes...from iTunes you can rip via WAV file and control your entire system from an iTouch via WiFi. Instead of the Benchmark I would consider something older, perhaps from the late 90's. The only two pieces of digital that have 'caught' my ear were the DAC magic (great on the cheap) and an Ayon CD-1 MK II (Not so cheap). The Wadia is nice and the ease of use had me set on purchase but it also outputs a lot of jitter. A CD based system will not and will sound better then any CD player on the market today...regardless of price.

    Lastly, pull your speakers out from either side about 2 more inches each side if you can muster the space, then slightly toe in your speakers. Better load barring stands will likely yield in a clearer mid-range as those stands are sucking up a lot of energy. A solid four post stand with sand will allow you to increase your overall resolution and you won't have had to swap out a single component. The toe-in is free and will have the most dramatic results.
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited January 2010
    I can't answer your question, but I can tell you that you will love the Wadia. I have one in my 2 channel system, and while I did start with the Benchmark DAC, I upgraded to the Bryston BDA-1 DAC. But, the Benchmark is still a great DAC. Just make sure you store your files as Apple Lossless (saves space), or uncompressed. Otherwise, you are just wasting your money.

    Just noticed the previous post. Don't worry about jitter. The DAC1 eliminates it via reclocking. However, upgrading the stock Wadia cable is highly recommended, and I even upgraded the power supply for even better sound.
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited January 2010
    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94177
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • JohnLocke88
    JohnLocke88 Posts: 1,150
    edited January 2010
    Unless you sit on the floor when listening to the LSi9's you might want to consider getting taller stands. How much lower is the tweeter than your ear?
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  • LuSh
    LuSh Posts: 887
    edited January 2010
    BlueFox,

    Benchmark also claimed that transports of any kind would sound the same because of the re-clocking...this is simply not the case as I and many others have noticed DRAMATIC differences between transports using the Benchmark. To each his own.
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited January 2010
    I wasn't a fan of the Benchmark either.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • CCNJ
    CCNJ Posts: 384
    edited January 2010
    LuSh,

    Thanks. If I go integrated, do I drive the LSI9s with the Integrated amp when in two channel music mode and drive them with the Emotiva XPA-3 when I switch to HT use?
    Rig1 - Totem Hawks, Benchmark HDR, Parasound A21, Sonus, Samsung 52 LCD, Audioquest Type4
    Rig2 - LFD LE IV Integrated, Harbeth P3ESR, Rega Dac, MF V-Link, IMAC, Audioquest Type4
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  • CCNJ
    CCNJ Posts: 384
    edited January 2010
    BlueFox,

    Thanks. I have been using the Wadia for a few months and really like it. I pair it with a Cambridge DacMagic and am pretty happy. That setup is in another room however so I need add'l gear in the HT setup. The Bryston dac sounds tempting but it is a little out of my price range at the moment.
    Rig1 - Totem Hawks, Benchmark HDR, Parasound A21, Sonus, Samsung 52 LCD, Audioquest Type4
    Rig2 - LFD LE IV Integrated, Harbeth P3ESR, Rega Dac, MF V-Link, IMAC, Audioquest Type4
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  • CCNJ
    CCNJ Posts: 384
    edited January 2010
    Dorkusa1,

    Thanks for your input. I am not yet sold on the Benchmark Dac1. Based on some of the previous comments, I am just hold off on that purchase.
    Rig1 - Totem Hawks, Benchmark HDR, Parasound A21, Sonus, Samsung 52 LCD, Audioquest Type4
    Rig2 - LFD LE IV Integrated, Harbeth P3ESR, Rega Dac, MF V-Link, IMAC, Audioquest Type4
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  • CCNJ
    CCNJ Posts: 384
    edited January 2010
    You are very perceptive. The tweeter hits you in the chest when sitting on the couch. My wife doesn't care how much I spend on this hobby but she wants everything on a smaller scale and hidden as much as possible. I suppose marriage is about compromise.
    Rig1 - Totem Hawks, Benchmark HDR, Parasound A21, Sonus, Samsung 52 LCD, Audioquest Type4
    Rig2 - LFD LE IV Integrated, Harbeth P3ESR, Rega Dac, MF V-Link, IMAC, Audioquest Type4
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  • LuSh
    LuSh Posts: 887
    edited January 2010
    Hello,

    The integrated with HT by-pass allows you to take the front pre-out's of your Yamaha receiver into an analog input of the integrated. You then assign the input of the integrated (provided it has HT by-pass) as a pass thru loop. When listening to music the Integrated acts as it should performing all tasks (both preamplifier and amplifier stages) when you want to watch television or movies you turn on the Yamaha and select the HT By-pass input on the integrated. The Yamaha acts as a processor and amplifies only the center and surround speakers. The Integrated will now power the fronts and has no active gain meaning all volume is controlled through the Yamaha but the integrated amplifier powers the front two speakers.

    The DAC Magic might be the Benchmarks equal...even if it isn't I'd spend money elsewhere in the system as the differences will be small at best. Better stands and placement of your speakers will make the biggest impact.
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  • CCNJ
    CCNJ Posts: 384
    edited January 2010
    LuSh,

    That makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.
    Rig1 - Totem Hawks, Benchmark HDR, Parasound A21, Sonus, Samsung 52 LCD, Audioquest Type4
    Rig2 - LFD LE IV Integrated, Harbeth P3ESR, Rega Dac, MF V-Link, IMAC, Audioquest Type4
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited January 2010
    CCNJ wrote: »
    You are very perceptive. The tweeter hits you in the chest when sitting on the couch. My wife doesn't care how much I spend on this hobby but she wants everything on a smaller scale and hidden as much as possible. I suppose marriage is about compromise.
    At least tilt them up towards ear level.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • CCNJ
    CCNJ Posts: 384
    edited January 2010
    Face wrote: »
    At least tilt them up towards ear level.
    Agreed. I should really consider upgrading the stands however as they were bought quite hastily. That's why I'm trying to get my next set of <electronic> purchases right so I don't have to keep upgrading.
    Rig1 - Totem Hawks, Benchmark HDR, Parasound A21, Sonus, Samsung 52 LCD, Audioquest Type4
    Rig2 - LFD LE IV Integrated, Harbeth P3ESR, Rega Dac, MF V-Link, IMAC, Audioquest Type4
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited January 2010
    CCNJ wrote: »
    Agreed. I should really consider upgrading the stands however as they were bought quite hastily. That's why I'm trying to get my next set of <electronic> purchases right so I don't have to keep upgrading.


    You could get the LSi15s. They even include a woofer in the built-in stand. ;)
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • CCNJ
    CCNJ Posts: 384
    edited January 2010
    Serendipity wrote: »
    I like options # 1 and # 3.
    I am between options 1 & 3 myself right now. Even if I go with option 3, I would want to try out the new pre-amp with the Emotiva xpa-3 before I decide to upgrade the amp.
    Rig1 - Totem Hawks, Benchmark HDR, Parasound A21, Sonus, Samsung 52 LCD, Audioquest Type4
    Rig2 - LFD LE IV Integrated, Harbeth P3ESR, Rega Dac, MF V-Link, IMAC, Audioquest Type4
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited January 2010
    CCNJ - I like your setup BTW. The TV looks perfect for that space. You'd probablt get some noticeable improvement with a really nice pair of stands. Check out Sound Anchor.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • CCNJ
    CCNJ Posts: 384
    edited January 2010
    BlueFox wrote: »
    You could get the LSi15s. They even include a woofer in the built-in stand. ;)
    Funny! That's why I am starting to like this forum. Turn a simple speaker stand upgrade into a speaker upgrade.
    Rig1 - Totem Hawks, Benchmark HDR, Parasound A21, Sonus, Samsung 52 LCD, Audioquest Type4
    Rig2 - LFD LE IV Integrated, Harbeth P3ESR, Rega Dac, MF V-Link, IMAC, Audioquest Type4
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  • CCNJ
    CCNJ Posts: 384
    edited January 2010
    dorokusai wrote: »
    CCNJ - I like your setup BTW. The TV looks perfect for that space. You'd probablt get some noticeable improvement with a really nice pair of stands. Check out Sound Anchor.
    Thanks. A 52 inch Samsung fit perfectly between the two windows. I also built the center channel speaker stand so the top of the speaker is flush with the bottom of the TV. This way no wires to hide.
    Rig1 - Totem Hawks, Benchmark HDR, Parasound A21, Sonus, Samsung 52 LCD, Audioquest Type4
    Rig2 - LFD LE IV Integrated, Harbeth P3ESR, Rega Dac, MF V-Link, IMAC, Audioquest Type4
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  • tcrossma
    tcrossma Posts: 1,301
    edited January 2010
    With your budget I think I'd go with a good pre w/HT bypass, and then pick up a very good 2-channel amp (ala Pass Labs, BAT, etc) to power the LSi9's. Your 2-channel side will be nice and pure, and then use the XPA to power your center and rears when in HT mode.
    Speakers: Polk LSi15
    Pre: Adcom GFP-750 with HT Bypass
    Amp: Pass Labs X-150
    CD/DVD Player: Classe CDP-10
    Interconnects: MIT Shortgun S3 Pro XLR
    Speaker cables: MIT MH-750 bi-wire
    TT:Micro Seiki DD-35
    Cartridge:Denon DL-160
    Phono Pre:PS Audio GCPH
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  • CCNJ
    CCNJ Posts: 384
    edited January 2010
    tcrossma wrote: »
    With your budget I think I'd go with a good pre w/HT bypass, and then pick up a very good 2-channel amp (ala Pass Labs, BAT, etc) to power the LSi9's. Your 2-channel side will be nice and pure, and then use the XPA to power your center and rears when in HT mode.
    Agreed that would be nice and pure for two channel. I don't think I could fit two power amps in my A/V console however. If I decide to go the pre route and upgrade the amp, I think I would need to sell the Emotiva and replace it with a better mutli channel amp. The problem is that good multi channel amps start to get expensive. I kind of screwed myself by buyng a lower end receiver that is not rated to drive my 4ohm center channel speaker.
    Rig1 - Totem Hawks, Benchmark HDR, Parasound A21, Sonus, Samsung 52 LCD, Audioquest Type4
    Rig2 - LFD LE IV Integrated, Harbeth P3ESR, Rega Dac, MF V-Link, IMAC, Audioquest Type4
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  • leroyjr1
    leroyjr1 Posts: 8,785
    edited January 2010
    I'm glad you didn't put those plants on top of the speakers.:)
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited February 2010
    I've also been considering going towards a better 'hybrid' rig for HT and 2-channel.

    The integrated amp approach has me temtped.

    I dug up what I could find for integrated amps w/ 'ht bypass':
    • PS Audio GCC-100 Control Amp
    • Musical Fidelity A3.5
    • Musical Fidelity A5
    • Sim Audio I3se
    • Arcam FMJ A22 (no bypass but has input "gain adjustment")
    • Krell KAV 300i
    • Bryston B-100 ("reprogrammable pass through")
    • Naim Nait 5i (unity gain)
    • Arcam A80 ("software configurable AV processor switch")
    • SimAudio i-5

    Does anyone else have some other int amps w/ bypass to add to the list?

    Thanks

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited February 2010
    A Benchmark DAC has been in my system for the last 7 years, most recently the DAC1/PRE. I have been very satisfied with its dead quiet background, and non-fatiguing sound. Treble seems improved over the basic DAC1. I found this to be more satisfying as a pre than both the Musical Fidelity A3CR, and Placette linestage. FWIW...

    My system is a 2-channel, dual hatted setup too. My Panasonic BluRay is run via coax to the DAC1/PRE, and my Direct TV HD STB is run via Toslink to the DAC1/PRE. My CEC CDP is run via coax as well.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited February 2010
    Erik Tracy wrote: »
    Does anyone else have some other int amps w/ bypass to add to the list?

    Thanks
    Wyred 4 Sound STI500 and STI1000.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited February 2010
    Face wrote: »
    Wyred 4 Sound STI500 and STI1000.

    Hmm....I'm intrigued....got some good street buzz too.

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited February 2010
    I already own a ST500(amp only) and should be receiving a STI500 next week.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited February 2010
    Face wrote: »
    I already own a ST500(amp only) and should be receiving a STI500 next week.

    Well then...we'll expect a detailed review!

    Dang you all....will I never find rest and contentment in my rig??;)

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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