Getting speaker wire inwall. Need help

pcgorilla

We are getting our home built. We are getting wired for surround sound wiring inwall. Three rear surround, two front and I will be placing my center on my TV. They do not offer a 7.1 setup, but I will add my own wires for additional speakers and subs after I see how they are running the wires.

I would do it myself, but am not sure how to do it when it comes to preparing it fot the drywall guys and making the wires visible.

They use 16 guage wire. I want 12 or 14. They will not do it. But, my question is, will 16 guage be ok? I think the max length is 40 feet.

I am tempted to let them do it, then go the next day and follow their wires with my own higher quality 12 guage wire.

This is one of those once in a lifetime chances to get inwall speaker wiring done and I do not want to skimp. I mean, in 10-20 years, who knows what kind of wire HT's will need. I just do not want to miss an opportunity. I figure if I just add wire adjacent to theirs, I will have both the 16 guage and 12 guage in wall for future use.

Has anyone had this done?
Our deadline is this week to place the order with the contractor. The house is in Corona, California if anyone knows someone that does this stuff, I'd appreciate a contact in the area.

ChrisDurano

If you plan on keeping the 16gauge and then try routing 12 later, its a 50/50 chance you'll succeed in getting it all the way. Why won't they use the gauge you want? Some kind of legal issue? Will they install wire that you purchase and what kind of wire do they want to install?

These are really good cables for in-wall installation. You can find these at any premium A/V store (like Magnolia Hi-Fi). I'm using 14 gauge.

Monster Custom

shack

If you want 7.1 and 12 guage wire and this company will not do it find one who will. I'm sure there are many reputable Home Theater installers who have the ability and willingness to do it right. It is your money and your house...find someone who will do it the way you want.

dorokusai

Here is what I would use. Make sure you run them separate from your power runs, if they are parallel and laying on one another you will get interference. Just have the contractor drill holes about 6 inches up from his electrical ones in the studs. This is what my Uncle and I did on his house.

Cable:
http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-DZ4QiiBi103/ProdView.asp?s=0&c=9&g=22112&I=119CS14460&o=m&a=0&cc=01&avf=N

Wall plates:
http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-DZ4QiiBi103/ProdView.asp?s=0&c=9&g=15210&I=1905W2D&o=m&a=0&cc=01&avf=N

http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-DZ4QiiBi103/ProdView.asp?s=0&c=9&g=15210&I=1905W4D&o=m&a=0&cc=01&avf=N

Inwall Sound Baffle:
http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-DZ4QiiBi103/prodview.asp?I=188SC1

If you have cable ran to these from your wall, them you just use small jumpers to go to the speakers. Install the gang boxes near where your speakers are being installed. If you have any that are not in-wall that is, if all inwall, no need for plates. Good luck.

polkatese

pcg,
you can call Leigh Adams Discounts Sales next to Ontario Mills, they do a lot of custom works and they will give you a quote. Talk to Eugene Chow, he is a great sales guy there. Address is 990 Ontario Mills Drive Suite F
Ontario, Ca
800 244 7273
909 476 9667
Good luck!

pcgorilla

cool. I was there a few weeks ago looking at their systems. I think I spoke to him. I'll call him. Thanks.

byteme

OK, here's my $.02. I just did this last year about this time. Really, really really DON'T pay someone to do it. This is SOOOO easy. If you can hook up your speakers now, you can do this. I would also recommend against getting the 4 conductor cable mentioned above. Just because I think it would be a pain to work with, you'll have to cut into it to pull out two of the connectors for your side surrounds which could end up compromising the shielding and in-wall certification. You said you want to do 7.1 with 12ga cable, well, then here's what you'll need. I'm assuming you'll run the cable for the mains and center in the more "traditional" manner of lying on the carpet!

Measure out how many feet you'll need of cable for the 4 rear speakers. As mentioned above, DON'T use the same holes that are being used for electrical - you'll regret it! Drill holes in the studs about a foot or so away (most likely above will be the easiest) from the electrical holes to run the speaker cable.

Order as many feet as you need of this - http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=100-740&DID=7

Then you'll need 4 of these - http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&User_ID=12653681&St=1389&St2=64078860&St3=76133703&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=5917&DID=7 - one for each speaker.

And two of these - http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&User_ID=12653681&St=1389&St2=64078860&St3=76133703&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=5918&DID=7 for behind the stereo rack.

Then all you'll need are 6 of these - http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&User_ID=12653681&St=1389&St2=64078860&St3=76133703&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=15501&DID=7 - and you're good to go!

You should be able to do it through parts express for about 1/2 fo the crutchfield cost and probably 10% of what someone would charge you to do it. It is VERY easy. If you want to run everything in wall, just order up more of the above stuff! Good luck! let me know if you have any questions, I'm happy to help!

LINK FIXED to show correct single gang new construction low voltage box and NOT a resistor - Sorry!

pcgorilla

what is the reason for the resistors and how do they hook up? Also, I plan to use on-wall speakers, not inwall kind. My big concern is how to place the wire so the drywall guys know where to leave an opening.

pcgorilla

OK, the sales guy said they'd put the 14 guage in. I still plan to run extra speaker wires for the 2 rear back channels, as well as some ceiling speakers for a 2nd zone.

Thanks for all your advice!!!

byteme

Originally posted by pcgorilla
what is the reason for the resistors and how do they hook up? Also, I plan to use on-wall speakers, not inwall kind. My big concern is how to place the wire so the drywall guys know where to leave an opening.

Whoops! Bad link, there is NO NEED for the resistor Sorry!! - here you go - http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&User_ID=12653681&St=1389&St2=64078860&St3=76133703&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=15501&DID=7 As you can see in the picture - you nail the two tabs on the right to the wall stud and the drywallers will go right over the top, cutting out around the inside where you'll eventually screw in the binding posts and wall plate. The drywall guys will treat it the same as an electrical outlet!

I'm telling you, this is SO easy. Anything you're paying someone could be put to better use! Here's what things end up looking like when you're done - http://webpages.charter.net/btreinen/images/hometheater/subamp.jpg and http://webpages.charter.net/btreinen/images/hometheater/surrounds.jpg in the second link if you look closely you can just see the wall plate sticking out between the two RT25i rear surrounds. For the side surrounds the speaker entirely covers the plate - http://webpages.charter.net/btreinen/images/hometheater/whole%20room.jpg

pcgorilla

Nice pics. thanks buddy!

byteme

If you were closer I'd come out and help you. Actually, I bet it would be cheaper to fly me there for the two or three hours worth of work and fly me home than it will be to pay someone to do this for you. I literally did my whole thing for $120 and 2-3 hours. All you need is a good cordless (or corded) drill to drill the holes for the wire in the studs, a good sharp drill bit, a couple nails for the gang boxes, a hammer and a step ladder. When it comes time to strip the wire and mount the connectors and all you'll need a wire stripper (or your teeth) and a screwdriver.

Just leave either the bare wire or the binding posts hanging out the front of the gang box. I had the wire already connected to the binding posts and when the drywallers came they just popped them back into the wall a little, marked where it was and used a dremel tool to drill through the drywall into the middle of the box and then kept drilling over to the side of the box and then all the way around in a rectangle. If I were gonna do it again, I'd simply tie the speaker wire in a loose knot around the top loop thing on the back of the gang box because when the drywallers mud the seams and everything in a couple cases they got mud on the binding posts and didn't bother cleaning it up. It was a pain to get off, but no real big deal.

Oh, two other hints. When measuring - don't forget to account for windows/doors/openings like I did. I ended up needing another roll of wire because I forgot about an opening and a window (although I was rather anxious and ordered everything before the walls were up ). And second, drill the holes in the studs bigger than you think you'll need. Sure the wire will go through a 3/8 hole (or whatever) but go maybe twice as big as you think because otherwise it gets to be a pain in the butt pulling the cable through one stud at a time.

jmierzur

I am not sure how exterior walls are constructed in CA, but most other locations require a vapor barrior for exterior walls. If building code requires a vapor barrior, it may be a good idea to use a standard electrical box (available at any home supply retailer) and a vapor shield for the box. The above mentioned mounting brackets can only be used on interior walls where I live.

If the two additional boxes that you require are on exterior walls, copy what has been done for the electrical boxes.

For cable runs along a stud, be sure to use the non-conductive staples to hold the cable in place. These are the ones that are used for the electrical cabling.

Local code may require the speaker cabling to pass inspection as well.

I also added an additional piece of 2x6 between the studs above the location of the box to have a larger area for mounting on-wall speakers.

mantis

Lets have a time here allright..........


pcgorilla ,
1) you need to have a professional custom Installer come in and look at the rooms you want wired.See if there is a Tweeter in your area and get them Involved.Or someone in the area that does custom Install and is very good at it.
2)If you want 7.1 and they won't do it,throw those jackasses off the job right now.You are the customer and should get exactly what you want.If they where Professionals,you would be offered many choices.
3)Structured wiring.....a must now.Walls are open and you need to get wires ran.Runs the value of the house up and meets your needs today and tomarrow.Networking,Phone,cable/dss all need to be ran now.Stack all rooms with it,you never know what your going to do in the future.

OK I'm sure you have tons of questions.I can answer any of them you need.This is a valuable time for you.This is where it counts.
If your basement is open,then your in great shape if you don't wire everything now.Get a chase conduit ran from the basement to the attic for jumping floor and attic runs from the head end.
4)Multiroom audio.This is something that almost all new home owners want.Having music outside,by the pool,at the deck and everywhere inside that you could possibley want sound......it's a beautiful party thing and great for all kinds of things...news,sports,cleaning the house,you name it,it's there for the use.

If I could only give you 1 piece of advice....thats get a custom Installer involved...they know what coming and whats hot now.Home theater needs to be wired correctly.The kind of TV/speakers/where your going to sit all need to be accounted for.Is this the right room to be doing it in????Many many questions.....

If your builder is wiring the house....back out now.Get a professional out there....I can't stress this enough......
Dan
Yes I am a custom Inhome Installer.