My Aragon 8008bb Amp is making thud sounds thru speakers

ben62670

Have you tried a "cheater plug" yet. It lifts the ground. Also unplug any Cable TV or Satalite TV from the system.
Ben

headrott

Ben, I have not tried a cheater plug. I don't think that is the (entire?) problem (but may be a part of it?). I hooked up another amp, and guess what I got the buzzing sound through it! It's just not as loud because it's a lower wattage amp than the Aragon. It has something to do with eithr the pre-amp, or Cd player or a combo or some other piece od equipment causing the buzzing. It's just that the Aragon amplifies it more than any other amp I've used.

Here is something wierd (to me anyway). I completely turned off the amplifier (both the Aragon when it was hooked up and the tube amp) and when I move the switch on the pre-amp that switches from headphones to the "normal" speaker active to the "direct" and back to headphones, you can hear the switch through the speakers. With the amp off mind you. Plus (if I remember correctly) you can hear the buzz through the speakers with the amp off and the pre-amp and CD player on. It's obviously not nearly as loud, but it's there. It must be something else besides the amps causing the buzz, but what and where is it coming from? I need someone smarter than myself to help me out.

I can keep tracing back problems to other sources, but I'm not sure I will know what the cause is even when I find the source. Someone with expreience in this may be able to know what it is without even tracing it to the source. I am going ot open up my pre-amp look inside. I know for a fact that the volume pot needs to be cleaned, so I will do that and see if I can find out if anything else is wierd in there. Any ideas now Ben? Or anyone else? Thanks again.

Greg

Schurkey

How loud is that buzz? I had a defective preamp where the shield on the RCA-style interconnect jacks weren't grounded. Made a hell a noise; I think is was 60-cycle hum, but REALLY LOUD through the speakers. Connecting the shield part of the RCA jack to ground via the preamp chassis took care of that.

This was many years ago; and the details are kinda fuzzy. Seems to me it made a difference if I used "directional" interconnect cables or interconnects where the shield is attached on both ends. I don't remember which one made the problem worse--the directional cables, I think. Once the preamp was repaired, the problem totally went away.

I AM NOT SURE, but if you're hearing ANYTHING through the speakers with the Aragon 8008BB turned OFF, you have problems inside the amp. The relay is supposed to disconnect the speakers from the amp when the power is off. I get NOTHING out of the speakers with my amps off; unlike some Adcom stuff where you shut off the amp and it continues playing until the power supply is drained. Adcom made a big deal out of that; it was part of the marketing pitch--see how big our power supply is? It'll play even with the power off...

The input impedance of the 8008 is 22K ohms.

headrott

I think I found it!!

The ground pin on my Monster AVS 2000 basically snapped off!!!! I'm gonna have to replace the plug on the end of it. That's gotta be causing the problem. The question is how did it snap off!?!?!?! Sorry gotta cut the post short. My blood suger is going down again.:eek:

dacoupedeville

It sounds like a ground loop problem now. Be sure to run your cable through the Monster filter too.

headrott

Yep, I hope that's what it is anyway. I haven't had a chance to mess with it too much. I've been messing with the pre-amp and other things. I will have to replace the Ac plug on the AVS 2000. As it is not possible to securely re-attach the ground plug to the AC plug.

I am correct about this right? If the ground pin is no loner completely attached to the AC plug (maybe only contacting, but not securely attached) this would cause a ground loop, correct? I believe that's right, but could use the help of someone who has more knowledge in this area.

headrott

I connectred a copper wire between the AVS 2000 and my CVT 1030 pre-amp and the humming noise was decreased by quite a bit, but not completely eliminated. But, this could just mean either the AVS 2000 is improperly grounded (most likely) or the pre-amp is improperly grounded. Or it could be that both are giving symptoms of being improperly grounded because if the AVS 2000 is improberly grounded, the HTPS 5100 MKII is connected directly to the AVS 2000 and then everything is being run through the HTPS 5100 MKII.

My question is this: If the AVS 2000 is improperly grounded due to the ground pin in the plug being broken and then the HTPS 5100 MKII is connected to this and then all the components being ran through this surge protector and filter, would this cause the hum to basically be ran through all the components? If the voltage regulator is not properly grounded and this is supplying power to all the components, would this rune the ungrouned hum noise through all the components? If someone could help me out I'd appreciate it.

alvino

have you checked your fuses to ensure that they are not blown?

headrott

alvino wrote: »

have you checked your fuses to ensure that they are not blown?

I don't think a blown fuse would cause a ground loop, or humming. The device or a portion of the device would simply not work.

BeefJerky

headrott wrote: »

I connectred a copper wire between the AVS 2000 and my CVT 1030 pre-amp and the humming noise was decreased by quite a bit, but not completely eliminated. But, this could just mean either the AVS 2000 is improperly grounded (most likely) or the pre-amp is improperly grounded. Or it could be that both are giving symptoms of being improperly grounded because if the AVS 2000 is improberly grounded, the HTPS 5100 MKII is connected directly to the AVS 2000 and then everything is being run through the HTPS 5100 MKII.

My question is this: If the AVS 2000 is improperly grounded due to the ground pin in the plug being broken and then the HTPS 5100 MKII is connected to this and then all the components being ran through this surge protector and filter, would this cause the hum to basically be ran through all the components? If the voltage regulator is not properly grounded and this is supplying power to all the components, would this rune the ungrouned hum noise through all the components? If someone could help me out I'd appreciate it.

It could absolutely cause the problem. Due to the lack of ground on the line it could either be a ground hum, or possibly line noise due to the voltage stabilizer being unable to do its job.

First thing you need to do is disconnect and take the AVS2000 out of the mix. One, this will tell you whether that is the problem. Two, without a ground pin, there is a possibility that the AVS2000 could end up damaged or cause damage to other devices. Don't take a chance here.

Second, I *highly* recommend plugging your devices in the other way around. The 5100MKII (which has a surge protector) should be plugged directly to your wall outlet, and the AVS2000 should be plugged into that. Based on the manuals available from Monster the AVS2000 does not have its own surge protection built in.

What this means is the way you have it hooked up now, you're asking the AVS2000 to take the surge first (destroying it) followed by the actual surge protector (which will possibly end up destroyed as well). Yes, your devices will be protected, but both of your Monster devices will end up needing to be replaced. To add to that, by making the 5100MKII come after the AVS2000 you're also running the ground through another device which reduces its ability to even act as a surge protector.

On the other hand, by having the 5100MKII come first, assuming it does its job, everything after that (including the AVS2000) should survive. The 5100MKII may very well end up destroyed after a bad surge, but that's what a good surge protector should do. Sacrifice itself for the good of everything else that comes after it.

headrott

Thanks for the suggestions. The thing about plugging in the 5100MKII into the wall and the voltage regulator into the 5100MKII, wouldn't that not allow the AVS 2000 to regulate the voltage for the 5100MKII and then not regulate the voltage for all the components plugged into that? Maybe my thinking is wacked, but I don't see how the regulator would do any good for the components then. Is this how you have yours hooked up?

I just found this too.

"Other Common Causes of Hum and Buzz
While this article addresses a very common ground loop problem, realize that there are plenty of ways in which system buzz and hum can enter into your home theater setup.

Common Problem #1: Check to see if you have a heavy power cord or an outlet in the wall that is worn out and will not grip. If the hot/neutral/ground prongs on the plug the ground are making intermittent or light contact with the tang on the inside of the outlet, it can cause a hum through the system. The best solution for this is to replace the outlet with an industrial version, available at Home Depot for about $4. The industrial outlets have better gripping and will hold power cables more securely. If you are installing a front projection system ceiling mount this outlet is a must. "

BeefJerky

The 5100MKII doesn't need nor care if the voltage is regulated or clean. It's primary purpose is to protect your equipment from surges. The AVS2000 will regulate power for anything that comes after it.

You need to hook it up this way:
wall outlet > 5100MKII > AVS2000 > your components

If the AVS2000 doesn't have enough plugs for all your components, then you can hook a power strip between the AVS2000 and your components. Now, when I say power strip, I mean a basic power strip with a simple circuit breaker. Do not use one with surge protection built in.

Yes, there are many things that could cause the hum. But, first you need to remove the AVS2000 with the known bad plug to either confirm or dismiss that as the issue.

headrott

Just for everyones' information regarding how to hook up the Monster AVS2000 and one of their power conditioners, here is a reply I got directly from Monster regaring how to do it (my question is at the bottom and the reply is just below):

Hello Greg,



The way these two components should be installed is that they AVS2000 should be plugged directly to the wall, and the 5100 MK2 should be plugged into the AVS2000.


This way all your components plugged into the 5100 MK2 receive both the benefits of the AVS2000 and the 5100 MK2.



Thanks for your inquiry,

Monster Cable Team



Site: Monster Power Question: (see below): - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Hi, Someone on the Polk Audio Forum said that I should plug my HTPS 5100MKII directly into the wall and then plug my AVS2000 into tone of the outets on the HTPS 5100MKII. Is this correct? I currently have it plugged in the other way around (AVS2000 plugged directly into the wall and then the HTPS 5100MKII plugged into the unswitched oulets on the AVS 2000). I just don't understand how the voltage would be regulated if you have the HTPS 5100MKII plugged into the wall and then the AVS plugged into that and the all your components plugged into the HTPS 5100MKII. If you could help me out here I'd appreciate it. Thank you for your time and help. Greg

headrott

Schurkey wrote: »

How loud is that buzz?
The input impedance of the 8008 is 22K ohms.

Is there any way to lower the impedence of the 8008bb? It seems like I have to turn up the volume on my 1030as pre-amp quite a bit for a conservatively rated 200WPC amp. Thanks again for everyones' help.

Greg

heiney9

headrott wrote: »

Is there any way to lower the impedence of the 8008bb? It seems like I have to turn up the volume on my 1030as pre-amp quite a bit for a conservatively rated 200WPC amp. Thanks again for everyones' help.

Greg

22K is pretty much a standard input impedance.

headrott

heiney9 wrote: »

22K is pretty much a standard input impedance.

H9, it seems like I have to turn up the volume knob on the pre-amp about a quarter inch more to get the same volume output as the Luxman M-117 (as both are 200WPC amps). I don't know the input impedance is on the Luxman though.

Greg

Schurkey

As long as you don't have to turn it to "11"...

heiney9

Don't worry about it all components are slightly different. When you said "quite a bit" I thought you meant from like 9:00 position to 1:00 position or some very large jump.

It'll be fine.

headrott

No, not 9:00 to 1:00, but from 9:00 to 11:00. As I have read that this aragon amp is supposed to be very powerful for its wattage rating, it doesn't seem like I should have to adjust it that much compared to the Luxman.

As another comparison, I have to turn up the pre-amp knob to the same position as my 80WPC tube amp.

heiney9

ALL gear is different, especially pre amps. On my Nak pre I barely had to move the vol control to get volume, with the Adcom pre I had to move it more to get the same vol. My Dared pre is somewhere inbetween.

As long as your not at the very bottom (hardly any movement) or at the very top (almost full vol.) you will be fine.

Stop trying to analyze it, it means nothing

Enjoy the tunes

H9

heiney9

headrott wrote: »

As another comparison, I have to turn up the pre-amp knob to the same position as my 80WPC tube amp.

On my tube integrated sometimes I have to move to 3/4 output. Comparing the two systems means nothing...................ALL gear is different, all recordings are different.

H9

hearingimpared

headrott wrote: »

No, not 9:00 to 1:00, but from 9:00 to 11:00. As I have read that this aragon amp is supposed to be very powerful for its wattage rating, it doesn't seem like I should have to adjust it that much compared to the Luxman.

As another comparison, I have to turn up the pre-amp knob to the same position as my 80WPC tube amp.

heiney9 wrote: »

On my tube integrated sometimes I have to move to 3/4 output. Comparing the two systems means nothing...................ALL gear is different, all recordings are different.

H9

Very true, with the tube hybrid integrated I have to put the volume control anywhere from 11:00 to 1:00 and, it's rated at 350 conservative wpc, to get the volume I like to listen to.

headrott

heiney9 wrote: »

On my tube integrated sometimes I have to move to 3/4 output. Comparing the two systems means nothing...................ALL gear is different, all recordings are different.

H9

I understand what you are saying, that all gear is different. But, I am keeping all the other gear constant except the amp. So that's the comparison I am making, the interaction between the pre and the amp. It seems there is less impedence with the Luxman than there is with the Aragon. Or, the Luxman is simply more powerful than the Aragon (which doesn't seem likely).

I am just trying to figure out if the power output capacitors are still working correctly in the aragon. I was thinking that the Aragon would simply totally out-power the Luxman, but it doesn't seem to. It does sound cleaner (more detailed) than the Luxman though.

heiney9

Man you like to torture yourself. I'll say it one more time and then you can investigate, ponder, analyze, become confounded, puzzled, etc.

IT DOESN'T MATTER.................there is nothing wrong with the Aragon. Neither is less or more powerful just based on the output from the pre-amp.

THEY ARE DIFFERENT................end of story. All amps and pre-amps, processors, preout capable receivers all have differing impedance's as well as the cables you use to connect them. So there is going to be a variation and like I stated before as long as it's not at one extreme or the other. YOU ARE FINE.

There is nothing wrong or incorrect or not working, etc if all you are experiencing is having to bump the vol knob a quarter inch.

Enjoy the music and stop obsessing over this small volume issue. If you had bad output caps you'd know it. :):):)

Schurkey

8008BB input sensitivity:
120mv input = 1 watt output

headrott

Thanks for the kick in the pants. I know sometimes I absolutely overanalyze things.:eek: