Are These Guys On Dope? Cary Audio CD-303T Ad
DarqueKnight
Posts: 6,765
I, and other current owners of the Cary Audio CD 306 PV CD/SACD player were a little confused when we saw an ad for Cary's new CD-303T CD/SACD player in the November 2009 issue of Stereophile. [The ad is attached below.]
The following quotes are typical of Cary's marketing hype:
"Celebrating our 20th year of Sheer Perfection: Introducing the new CD-303T vacuum tube SACD player/DAC"
"In every detail, the CD-303T vacuum tube CD/SACD player represents the ultimate in home audio CD playback perfection."
"...the new CD-303T is, in our opinion, the finest CD/SACD player on earth"
"The new CD-303T is the true showpiece of Cary Audio engineering, artistry and audio reproduction."
The ad generated a lot of confusion because Cary still has the CD 306 Professional Version CD/SACD player (MSRP $8,000) in their product catalog. The CD-303T retails for $6500 and appears to be a cost reduced version of the CD 306 PV with a smaller power supply, half as many processing chips and lower level of build quality. There was speculation that the CD 306 PV was soon to be discontinued.
Jason Barbour, Cary Audio's national sales manager, cleared things up:
"The 306 Pro is the top of the line at $8K and the 303T is $6.5K."
When he was asked about the Stereophile ad stating the 303T to be the "best player on earth", Mr. Barbour replied:
"It's just an ad and the 306 is the superior player."
Now, I don't mind a bit of marketing hype. I think (hope) that most people know to take such wild, unsubstantiated "best in the world" type claims with a tablespoon of salt. However, when an audio company claims that their new thing is the "best on earth" of its type while they have a current, higher build quality, higher performing, and higher priced model of the same type in their product lineup, AND when their senior marketing manager doesn't think such a discrepancy is a big deal, it certainly makes one wonder if there aren't some widespread substance abuse problems at the company.
Such good advertising.
Damnation!! Sheer perfection my ****. If they can't even be consistent, and "perfect" with their own marketing hype, how can they be depended on to provide "sheer perfection" in an audio component? I, even I, was appalled by this...and you know I don't appall very easily!
Are you going to be "upgrading" to the new perfection?
Leave me alone.~DK
The following quotes are typical of Cary's marketing hype:
"Celebrating our 20th year of Sheer Perfection: Introducing the new CD-303T vacuum tube SACD player/DAC"
"In every detail, the CD-303T vacuum tube CD/SACD player represents the ultimate in home audio CD playback perfection."
"...the new CD-303T is, in our opinion, the finest CD/SACD player on earth"
"The new CD-303T is the true showpiece of Cary Audio engineering, artistry and audio reproduction."
The ad generated a lot of confusion because Cary still has the CD 306 Professional Version CD/SACD player (MSRP $8,000) in their product catalog. The CD-303T retails for $6500 and appears to be a cost reduced version of the CD 306 PV with a smaller power supply, half as many processing chips and lower level of build quality. There was speculation that the CD 306 PV was soon to be discontinued.
Jason Barbour, Cary Audio's national sales manager, cleared things up:
"The 306 Pro is the top of the line at $8K and the 303T is $6.5K."
When he was asked about the Stereophile ad stating the 303T to be the "best player on earth", Mr. Barbour replied:
"It's just an ad and the 306 is the superior player."
Now, I don't mind a bit of marketing hype. I think (hope) that most people know to take such wild, unsubstantiated "best in the world" type claims with a tablespoon of salt. However, when an audio company claims that their new thing is the "best on earth" of its type while they have a current, higher build quality, higher performing, and higher priced model of the same type in their product lineup, AND when their senior marketing manager doesn't think such a discrepancy is a big deal, it certainly makes one wonder if there aren't some widespread substance abuse problems at the company.
Such good advertising.
Damnation!! Sheer perfection my ****. If they can't even be consistent, and "perfect" with their own marketing hype, how can they be depended on to provide "sheer perfection" in an audio component? I, even I, was appalled by this...and you know I don't appall very easily!Are you going to be "upgrading" to the new perfection?Leave me alone.~DK
Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
Post edited by DarqueKnight on
Comments
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I'll never buy another Cary Audio product.
I lost faith in them a couple years ago after every piece I've owned ended up being serviced for some kind of failure. No thanks, too many other options. Bye.CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint. -
It's about time you moved into tubes, DK.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
What would you recommend looking at?Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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I'll never buy another Cary Audio product.
I lost faith in them a couple years ago after every piece I've owned ended up being serviced for some kind of failure. No thanks, too many other options. Bye.
Don't be so harsh. They work short-handed and have to rely on their customers for debugging. The corporate term for it is "stealth beta trials".Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
DarqueKnight wrote: »Don't be so harsh. They work short-handed and have to rely on their customers for debugging. The corporate term for it is "stealth beta trials".
Made Me laugh Out Loud For Real
Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid. ..... Frank Zappa -
DarqueKnight wrote: »What would you recommend looking at?
Since you asked....the CD-303T. I'd be very interested in your opinion on how it compares to your 306 Pro.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Awwwww...I thought you had a tube pre or power amp for me to audition.:(
As for the 303T, I haven't been very good this year, so I don't think I am deserving of the "ultimate in home audio CD playback perfection", which, according to one of their top guns, also happens to be Cary's second best CD/SACD player.
If you can be a little bit patient, I'm sure Uncle Mikey will soon be reviewing it in Stereophile within a few months. I'm also sure he will include a comparison of the 303T to the previously reviewed 306 PV.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Another reason not to buy Cary.
lulz @ Daffy Duck!"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
All I know is I requested a price quote on one of their pieces over 10 days ago and received a response 5 days later, asking my location. I promptly responded and have still heard nothing. Money in hand, ready to burn it, just before Christmas....That IS crazy, if you ask me...Anthem D2v
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DarqueKnight wrote: »Don't be so harsh. They work short-handed and have to rely on their customers for debugging. The corporate term for it is "stealth beta trials".
You've owned what? one piece from them? you might change the flute measure if you went thru what I have. You should be thanking ME for your awesome experience.CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint. -
It's just another case of substituting marketing investment for product investment. It's pretty much the norm right now. The fact is you can invest a much lower marketing spend and move the sales needle the same or more in the short term, and improve the ROI. Unfortunately it's not a long-term sustainable model. That's why us marketing people get caught up in our shorts trying to market around inconsistent product offerings that the investment in research, product, and R&D doesn't exist to solve.DKG999
HT System: LSi9, LSiCx2, LSiFX, LSi7, SVS 20-39 PC+, B&K 507.s2 AVR, B&K Ref 125.2, Tripplite LCR-2400, Cambridge 650BD, Signal Cable PC/SC, BJC IC, Samsung 55" LED
Music System: Magnepan 1.6QR, SVS SB12+, ARC pre, Parasound HCA1500 vertically bi-amped, Jolida CDP, Pro-Ject RM5.1SE TT, Pro-Ject TubeBox SE phono pre, SBT, PS Audio DLIII DAC -
"home" is the key here...the "Professional" model is apparently not intended for "home" use.the ultimate in home audio CD playback perfectionSteve Carlson
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Polk Monitor 10B speakers, retired but not forgotten -
You've owned what? one piece from them? you might change the flute measure if you went thru what I have. You should be thanking ME for your awesome experience.
Two pieces, actually (CD 306 and CD 306 PV)...and, as I discuss in some detail below, I have a "bit" of experience with Cary's "legendary" repair service.;) Both of my units had to be sent back for repair. Where did I mention, or even allude to, an "awesome experience"? You obviously didn't read, or perhaps didn't comprehend, what I wrote.DarqueKnight wrote: »Don't be so harsh. They work short-handed and have to rely on their customers for debugging. The corporate term for it is "stealth beta trials".
For someone who enjoys sarcasm as much as you do, I am surprised that you have such difficulty recognizing it when it is directed at you.
If you had actually read my first post, rather than just seeing the word "Cary" and going into a conniption fit, you would have realized that I was being very sarcastic, derogatory and derisive toward Cary rather than "playing the flute" as you put it. I have thoroughly enjoyed both of my Cary pieces but it would be a stretch of the imagination to categorize my experience with them as "awesome" or to categorize me as a fanboi.
Addendum - For The Interested Reader, Details Of My "Awesome Experience" With Cary Audio Are Provided
My first Cary unit, the CD 306, was gone for repair for 3 months. I posted details of that fiasco in posts 1, 13, 14, and 22 of this thread. After the unit came back from repair, it had better sound quality (due to no charge upgrades) and I never had any more trouble with it for the 1 year-9 months of ownership after the repair. I sold it in September of 2008. The buyer reported that he was thrilled with it.
My second Cary unit, the CD 306 PV, was purchased in May of 2008. It has been sent back for repair three times. The 306 PV's sales literature states that "The CD 306 Professional version features a new servo board design with internal components tested to 105° C". Well, they must not have had all the bugs worked out of that new servo board design because my unit had to be sent back [/b]twice[/b] for servo board failure. After the second servo board failure, I asked for a new replacement unit and Cary politely declined. They said that a single component failure did not warrant a complete replacement. I had a very long telephone conversation with Cary president Dennis Had and he assured me that my experience was not typical. However, he did say that the company had been experiencing some issues with parts and technical personnel and these were contributing factors to what I was experiencing.
After the second servo board repair, I noticed enhanced sound quality from the unit: more overall detail, more image weight, and more bass weight and detail. I described the sonic improvements to Cary's service manager and asked if there were any upgrades done to my unit while it was in service. He said no upgrades were performed, only the servo board was replaced and the unit was tested and adjusted to spec by a technician. Ummmm OK.
The third repair was in June of 2009 for a bad transistor on the power board. I have not had any problems since then.
In summary, my CD 306 was away in repair one time for 3 of the 24 months I owned it (13% of the time). My CD 306 PV has been away in repair three times for an aggregate 58 days (approx. 2 months) of the 18 months I have owned it (11% of the time).
Prior to purchasing the 306 PV, I consulted with five owners and specifically asked about any functional or repair issues. None of them reported any problems.
When I was doing research for a new home theater processor, I considered the Cary 11a. But, as I said in post #2 of this thread, the Cary was dismissed due to software problems that had been bitterly documented on various A/V forums. It appears that Cary has a bad habit of rushing products to market before all the bugs are worked out.
Would I ever buy another Cary piece? Maybe. Certainly not during the first year of its production and certainly not without doing a lot of research and communicating with current owners. Buyer beware.:)Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
DarqueKnight wrote: »Don't be so harsh. They work short-handed and have to rely on their customers for debugging. The corporate term for it is "stealth beta trials".
I believe Microsoft invented this, it's called: Retail Beta.:D -
LessisNevermore wrote: »I believe Microsoft invented this, it's called: Retail Beta.:D
They sure did. -
DarqueKnight wrote: »Awwwww...I thought you had a tube pre or power amp for me to audition.:(
As for the 303T, I haven't been very good this year, so I don't think I am deserving of the "ultimate in home audio CD playback perfection", which, according to one of their top guns, also happens to be Cary's second best CD/SACD player.
If you can be a little bit patient, I'm sure Uncle Mikey will soon be reviewing it in Stereophile within a few months. I'm also sure he will include a comparison of the 303T to the previously reviewed 306 PV.
Ok, but I do so enjoy your reviews.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
DK - Sorry, I stopped reading after "Two pieces...." and you obviously read too much into what you see as well.CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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Would you two get a room already."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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See this type of hype gets on my last nerve, not much different than a BOSE ad! I'm itching to upgrade my whole system, now that I have done all the crossovers & tweeters in my 1.2 TL's but dont even know where to start because of all the dishonesty out there, even by professional reviewers! What I would love to do is try some different stuff out with my system before I buy. With all the hype, I would love to try tubes, though I sometimes question 50 year technology (please, I say that in the sincerest way). I truly do appreciate all the knowledge on this board. While I post very little, I read a lot and have been here quite a few years.
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Would you two get a room already.
I have a lifesize cardboard cutout of Raife wearing a lab coat and nothing else that I talk to every night.CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
