Tubes rule

NJPOLKER
NJPOLKER Posts: 3,474
edited December 2009 in 2 Channel Audio
My four new/old tubes came in the mail today. A pair of Mazda and a pair of Mullards. Plugged them into my Anthem wearing the glove of course and put on the Herbie dampers. Its only been maybe 15 minutes and all I can say is WOW. UNBELIEVABLE, HUGE IMPROVEMENT to say the least. Brent Jessee say between 48 and 100 hours of break-in. Its simply incredible that my system sounds this awesome. Maybe the best $400 I have spent yet.

Confession time :eek:
Since I sold Ben's IC's I am using a pair of Monster IC's. I can't wait till the MIT S3's get here. They should be a little better than the Monster IC's.
Also I am running regular speaker wire maybe 16 guage. The Audioquest Mammoths are still in the box/closet till Monday.

I'll have more to say after the tubes burn-in.

Tubes Rule!!! Sorry for stealing your line Ted but I can't help it.

Tubes really do rule big time.
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited December 2009
    NJPOLKER wrote: »
    Confession time :eek:
    Since I sold Ben's IC's I am using a pair of Monster IC's.

    :eek::eek::eek:
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • NJPOLKER
    NJPOLKER Posts: 3,474
    edited December 2009
    Max please forgive me! I do have two sets of MIT's on the way.
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  • Ern Dog
    Ern Dog Posts: 2,237
    edited December 2009
    This shouldn't go unpunished! ;)
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  • thsmith
    thsmith Posts: 6,082
    edited December 2009
    nice score ! I went with the Amperex bugle boy equivalent. They very nice in the Pre 1.
    Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
    Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
    Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
    Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
    Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
    Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited December 2009
    I have had a lot of fun rolling tubes and I have found a few to be so far superior than anything else. Only downside is my wallet is as light as it has been in a long while!!!!!

    TUBES ADD SOUL!

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • dpowell
    dpowell Posts: 3,068
    edited December 2009
    Which Anthem are you using?
    ____________________________________________________________

    polkaudio Fully Modded SDA SRS 1.2TLs + Dreadnaught, LSiM706c, 4 X Polk Surrounds + 4 X ATMOS, SVS PB13 Ultra X 2, Pass Labs X1, Marantz 7704, Bob Carver Crimson Beauty 350 Tube Mono Blocks, Carver Sunfire Signature Cinema Grande 400x5, ADCOM GFA 7807, Panasonic UB420, Moon 380D DAC, EPSON Pro Cinema 6050
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  • NJPOLKER
    NJPOLKER Posts: 3,474
    edited December 2009
    dpowell wrote: »
    Which Anthem are you using?

    I have a Anthem PRE2L Its the greatest pre-amp in the world :rolleyes:
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited December 2009
    NJPOLKER wrote: »
    I have a Anthem PRE2L Its the greatest pre-amp in the world :rolleyes:

    he,he,, like those NOS tubes eh?;)
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • NJPOLKER
    NJPOLKER Posts: 3,474
    edited December 2009
    heiney9 wrote: »
    I have had a lot of fun rolling tubes and I have found a few to be so far superior than anything else. Only downside is my wallet is as light as it has been in a long while!!!!!

    TUBES ADD SOUL!

    H9

    I understand what you mean by "soul" but it does even more than that.

    I can not believe how good my system sounds now.

    Thanks for taking good care of me on the Signal cable PC. I got a notice it shipped. It will be used for the Anthem pre-amp.

    Tubes rule the roost
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited December 2009
    I have my tube buffer between my Phono pre and the tubed pre. I was running the buffer between the modded Denon 2900, but it just wasn't happening there.
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited December 2009
    ben62670 wrote: »
    I have my tube buffer between my Phono pre and the tubed pre. I was running the buffer between the modded Denon 2900, but it just wasn't happening there.

    I had the same result Ben except I was only using the 2900 for SACD.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited December 2009
    Lasareath wrote: »
    Drew I can't seem to find my ShotGun S1's, did you borrow them?

    Wait till the meds wear off! and look again! LOL!!!:D;)
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  • NJPOLKER
    NJPOLKER Posts: 3,474
    edited December 2009
    Lasareath wrote: »
    Drew I can't seem to find my ShotGun S1's, did you borrow them?

    Nope
    I just unplugged the Anthem and laid the IC's so you can easily see them. Or are you just busting my balls?
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  • NJPOLKER
    NJPOLKER Posts: 3,474
    edited December 2009
    george daniel wrote: »
    he,he,, like those NOS tubes eh?;)

    George my friend I gotta say I am really really really impressed with the transformation in the sound quality. I can not express just yet how awesome my system sounds. The separation, detailed highs, clarity, sound stage is more true than ever.
    Even with the Monster IC's and regular **** wire!!

    I am now in love with high quality tubes.
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  • NJPOLKER
    NJPOLKER Posts: 3,474
    edited December 2009
    hearingimpared wrote: »
    Wait till the meds wear off! and look again! LOL!!!:D;)

    Joe,
    I could not and did not say it better myself.
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  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited December 2009
    Tubes Rule.... Yes They Do :)

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,033
    edited December 2009
    Monster? Oh dear, somebody needs a spankin'. :eek:
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • NJPOLKER
    NJPOLKER Posts: 3,474
    edited December 2009
    Thats what I was reduced to, for a couple more days anyway.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,033
    edited December 2009
    What would you sat is the most dramatic improvement to what you are hearing?
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited December 2009
    NJPOLKER wrote: »
    Thats what I was reduced to, for a couple more days anyway.

    Geez I didn't know you were using Monster. Even before the MITs burn-in they will sound better than that crap.:D;)
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited December 2009
    treitz3 wrote: »
    What would you sat is the most dramatic improvement to what you are hearing?

    I know, I know.;)
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited December 2009
    Me too, me too!
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  • NJPOLKER
    NJPOLKER Posts: 3,474
    edited December 2009
    I figured I'd wait till I get at least 48 hours on the tubes which is the minimum burn-in time before saying much about the awesome performance. I have about 12 hours of burn so far.

    One thing I will say at this point is the true sound stage I am hearing now. I think it has to do with the overall increase in SQ.

    If I had to pick the biggest improvement in sound quality it would be how crystal clear the mid/highs are. Maybe thats why I am really digging the sound stage too!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited December 2009
    Tubes do a 3-d sound stage better than any transistor I've heard. With the right tube you can get outstanding clarity in the mids/highs too.

    I spent about 2-3 weeks comparing different tubes in my Dared against my Adcom GFP-750. I ran the Dared thru the HT bypass, level matched each volume and was able to sit in one spot and with the remote switch between the two on the fly.

    Many times it was hard to hear a difference in overall tone. What I always heard a difference in was the "space" and the size of the soundstage. With some of the tubes there was a noticeable peak in the bass and it became a little sloppy. The transistors always had a bit "dryness" compared to the tubes. Tubes also seem to get the rich harmonics of certain instruments that the SS pre-amp just couldn't quite match (piano, saxophone, trombone, acoustic instruments and vocals). Again these things could be a bit subtle until your used to hearing them and then they go away.

    So with the rich harmonics, very clear highs, solid bass and the fantastic open, large soundstage...........I pick the tubes every time and why I say "Tubes Add Soul" because when I was comparing.......that's what I felt was missing with my dead neutral sounding SS pre-amp.

    My favorite tubes so far are

    1) Telefunken ECC801S.......premium version of the normal TFK. Some feel this is hands down the best ECC81/12AT7 variant made, period!!! 20,000 hour heater, very closly match triode sections, extremely low noise and a very neutral sounding tube.

    2) Valvo 6201 gold pin (made in Hamburg)......very similar to above.

    3) Valvo ECC81 (made in Hamburg with copper rods) usually 50's production. Superb sounding tube, very neutral.

    4) GE 6201 5 Star, 1950's, black plate, square getter . This tube has the largest sound stage of any tube I've heard........it's probably not as natural as the above 3 as every recording sounds like "Jazz at the Pawnshop". Bass is a bit bloated compared to the above 3, but the mids and highs are magical. This best way to describe this tube is Euphoric. Turn off the lights, sit back and it's like you are right in the room the music is playing. Does some extraordinary things on SDA's. In the end it doesn't sound as "natural" but it's a fun tube to put in occasionally for something a little different. It could be the expansive sound stage along with the SDA's tend to "exaggerate" this tubes best features.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited December 2009
    H9,, I have yet to master the multi-quote,, but you said something about soundstage/tubes adding soul that made me think about my impressions and what I noticed when I listened to my first set of "real" nos tubes,,and that was the detail within the soundstage that was not there before.I have a cut of Steve Winwood "Mr Fantasy" that just came alive with the trio of tubes in my minimax,,they really brought out a focus of the details/notes/guitar licks within the soundstage,,eh,, more three dimensional for lack of a better word.:)
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited December 2009
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Tubes do a 3-d sound stage better than any transistor I've heard.
    I couldn't agree more.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited December 2009
    george daniel wrote: »
    H9,, I have yet to master the multi-quote,, but you said something about soundstage/tubes adding soul that made me think about my impressions and what I noticed when I listened to my first set of "real" nos tubes,,and that was the detail within the soundstage that was not there before.I have a cut of Steve Winwood "Mr Fantasy" that just came alive with the trio of tubes in my minimax,,they really brought out a focus of the details/notes/guitar licks within the soundstage,,eh,, more three dimensional for lack of a better word.:)

    Absolutely George. I went crazy and I bought lots and lots of tubes to compare. While a 1975 GE JAN 12AT7 sounds pretty good........until you compare it to say the Valvo ECC81 (euro version of the 12AT7) from 1957 and you realize the Valvo has that "magical" quality and it almost always comes down to the tubes ability to allow you to "see" farther into the music.

    I have about 20 different pairs of tubes from all years and I have always found the older tubes from the 40's, 50's and early 60's always have that "magical" quality you and I are trying to describe. There are some exceptions, IE; even the late production Telefunken's sound as good as the earlier production but they stopped making tubes in the early 70's.

    I had a lot of fun comparing tubes over the past 6-8 months, but I am getting ready for a big sell off of very nice tubes, but they just don't quite do it for me, for the reason you mention.

    I had a helluva time picking/mixing the proper rectifier with the tubes as well. I've found broader differences in the rectifier than with input tubes. I found a pair of NOS 1940's Brimar Military CV 1863 (5Z4G equivalent) that are outstanding. I also like the 50's RCA or Sylvania 5V4G (coke bottle) in-line black plates. I hate the Valvo GZ32 (Mullard) and that's in the FS pile.

    I finally have it dialed in with the tubes I like and I'm very happy at this point. But I have spent over $350 on tubes to find MY proper combo. :p

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited December 2009
    heiney9 wrote: »
    I finally have it dialed in with the tubes I like and I'm very happy at this point. But I have spent over $350 on tubes to find MY proper combo. :p
    You got off cheap.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited December 2009
    Face wrote: »
    You got off cheap.

    I did; and actually it's probably closer to $400. But 12AT7's and their variants are on the low end of the money train compared to 12AX7, etc.

    Best bargain was for the Telefunken ECC801S. When these are NOS in original boxes they can go for $400-500 pr. A good used set usually around $200 pr.

    Bought a pristine pair on EBay for $58 pr. I still can't believe I bought them for that. I don't think he had it listed properly. I have yet to see a pair go for less $100 on ebay and those are usually from sellers who give no info, etc. They usually sell for around $150 pr.

    Telefunkens seem to last forever and the ECC801S with it 20,000 hr heater it should last for my grandchildren :p:D

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,137
    edited December 2009
    Lasareath wrote: »
    Sorry, Yes. lol 

    Sal, what's with the  in all of your posts? I noticed it in the 2.3TL thread too.
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