Gudidance needed.

bigaudiofanatic

So after getting a nice receiver and hearing martin logans. I want to start upgrading. But I simply do not know what to upgrade first. The thing I see that is the weakest part of my system is the sub as of right now. But than again a bigger sub will only get used to it's max potential when no one is home. Than their is the center speaker that is not really the best. Than their is the speakers but they would probably be the last. But also their is the option of getting amps to hookup to the receiver as well.

"Sigh" Simply what I am asking is what should I upgrade next?

sk1939

bigaudiofanatic wrote: »

So after getting a nice receiver and hearing martin logans. I want to start upgrading. But I simply do not know what to upgrade first. The thing I see that is the weakest part of my system is the sub as of right now. But than again a bigger sub will only get used to it's max potential when no one is home. Than their is the center speaker that is not really the best. Than their is the speakers but they would probably be the last. But also their is the option of getting amps to hookup to the receiver as well.

"Sigh" Simply what I am asking is what should I upgrade next?

Ah, you seem to have caught "upgradeitis"...first things first...the first components you should upgrade are either a) the sub b) the blue ray player (source). I don't really see a reason to upgrade your fronts as people tend to really like how those Infinities sound...so unless your unhappy with them, consider upgrading them later....

McLoki

Best advice I can give you is don't buy something better than what you have, but lower than what you really want to end up with. Intermediate steps are just a waste of money (in almost all cases unless you get a great deal on something used).

Anyway - list what you have now (it may be in your sig, I didn't look) and then list what you want to end up with. From there - we will tell you what to get next that will get you where you want to end up and doesn't waste money along the way.....

Michael

bigaudiofanatic

This is what I have now

Insignia Blu-Ray Player
Pioneer Elite VSX-56TXi
Infinity 2000.6 Towers
JBL Center
Polk Monitor 40 Rears
Polk PSW10 Sub

Now I WANT a great stereo setup that will also be a HT setup as well. My goal is the Vantage's from ML as fronts. Probably a elite newer than the one I have with hdmi and all and amps for powering the fronts such as outlaw or something better. I understand that I do not want to take steps that is what I am sort of tired of. Buying something and than selling it for less than I got it for. The infinity's are fine for now I like them and no problem with their sound for what they are. But I will upgrade them later probably being the last item I upgrade. I understand that upgrading one thing might throw off the sound of other things. But It is something I can live with until I get everything upgraded. The sub is "ok" for where I am but when everyone is gone. It just does not impress. The one thing I will probably not upgrade until the last step will be the receiver.

McLoki

Based on 2 channel first system that can also do home theater.....

Sub or room treatments would be my first suggestions....

after that - an amp (to match your ML, not your current speakers)

Front speakers

preamp (with Home theater bypass)

pre/pro or avr

and done....

See - easy.

bigaudiofanatic

Well this will not be my permanent place. I will be moving out in 2 years or so. Thus I do not want to worry about room treatments right now. Also are you saying keep the jbl center? Or would you do that after the sub?

Yes sk1939 I do have a case of the upgradeitis. I just need guidance.

Face

Are you sure you'll need a sub with the ML's?

Otherwise, I agree with Mike.

Preamp with HT/Bypass, a better source or at least a good DAC, an amp, and of course the ML's. You can keep your current and blu ray player for HT use.

dorokusai

You gotta move gear to get gear.

bigaudiofanatic

I am thinking that I might need a sub as I do like the room to rumble during movies. I do know that the ML's have great bass but not sure if they will be able to go low enough.

The BR player will be upgraded to a nice elite but as I see it with the tv I have now no need for anything better. It looks great and I am happy with it so far. Also the fact that my receiver does not have hdmi's makes upgrading the player a bit pointless.

McLoki

bigaudiofanatic wrote: »

Well this will not be my permanent place. I will be moving out in 2 years or so. Thus I do not want to worry about room treatments right now. Also are you saying keep the jbl center? Or would you do that after the sub?

Yes sk1939 I do have a case of the upgradeitis. I just need guidance.

My thought was to build a killer 2 channel system first and in stages that you can benefit from now... Any center you get now will be out of place until you get the martin logans so I would not go that route just yet.

Even if you are moving in 2 years - I think room treatments would be a worthwhile addition to both your current and future system. (they move easily and hang like a picture - so no excuses there either)

The sub is debatable for 2 channel first system - but I just cannot imagine a even passable home theater getting by with that sub... (sorry - my own bias getting in the way)

Face

He already has a sub in his sig.

bigaudiofanatic

Oh I understand I only bought it for some bass was never intended as a main sub.

Here are some of the subs I was looking at.

http://www.martinlogan.com/products/grottoi

http://www.klipsch.com/na-en/products/rsw-10d-overview/

http://signature.crutchfield.com/s_700RC300FS/Artison-RCC-300-FS.html?showAll=Y&tp=187

Face

You're heading into too many directions at once.

If you want to do a high quality HT and 2 channel at once, it's not going to be cheap.

And I didn't know primates had subs.

bigaudiofanatic

LOL well I intend to upgrade one thing at a time such as a lot fo you do. But instead of buying step up little by little just save for the actual things I am after. The ML's where perfect for me hearing them for stereo and for surround. To me they are perfect. I just need to know what to upgrade first, second and so on.

I understand that any real upgrade is not going to be cheap. That is why I plan to be out of at least 7 grand by the time I am done. That with the speaker wire and all. It is just something I want before I leave the nest. That way I am happy with what I have. I know some say that is impossible but to me it is.

Face

IMO, for you, the source and amp are the most important, then the preamp.

McLoki

Face wrote: »

He already has a sub in his sig.

I would be hesitant to call anything with a -3db point of 40hz a subwoofer....

Just my opinion of course.

BTW - I agree with the to many directions opinion... Pick what you want and move in that direction. If your budget is large, just move faster.

bigaudiofanatic

As said the stereo part is what I would probably be leaning towards. But at the same time the same speakers will be used in a HT setup. Such as what I do now.

Hawkeye

IF, you are certain about the Vantage, the Grotto would be my choice of the subs you have listed. I think you could do better on the 'gon by looking for a JL Audio F110 or F112 for music and movies. You need to have a very accurate and fast sub to keep up with the ESL panel. I tried for months to blend a REL Brittania B1 and it just would not keep up with panels. The JL's are an absolutely great match for ML. You can use it with what you have now for HT/2 channel and have your foundation available when you get the Vantage.

Go with a good sub for now.

Gordon

tonyb

The Jl audio,while nice subs,Are pretty pricey,even used. Start with something that will give you a better bang for your buck like a used Velo, Hsu, Revel, or even SVS. If your center is not up to par, I would suggest replacing the front 3 speakers at the same time. The RTI series seems to be up your alley and most in the line can be driven without the additional amps you would need. You say you like the Martin Logans, then look for a pair used and a good used sub to start. I would rather have no center channel than a crappy one. Know what I'm sayin'? Keep the volume down untill you get an amp for those ML'S. You can do anything on your wish list if you buy used gear. Otherwise you may run into problems with the other half.

Here's how I would tackle it. You want the Vantage,go find them. Upon setting them up,ditch the center and sub,sell them off. Get an amp for the ML'S, then a used sub. Don't try and use the sub or center with the ML'S, you will be dissapointed. Last thing to worry about is the center channel. Maybe by this time next year,if your a good boy,Santa will grant you your wish. I run a combined 2 channel/ HT system as many others here do also. I run a 2 channel amp for the front 2 speakers and let the receiver power the rest. I ditched my center and found I really didn't miss it. My speakers go pretty deep but a seperate sub for HT,I feel is a must. If only the wife thought so too. Try and find the best quality gear you can afford. Steps my friend,baby steps sometimes, but you get the drift.

bigaudiofanatic

I could probably never have a HT setup without a center. Also I do not think of JL as being a name I want to go with for subs. Yes they are very over priced even in the car audio world. I think I am going to head back for another listen of the ML's this weekend and ask them to omit the sub this time. I am just curious of how it sounds without it. Also as I said earlier I do not want to take steps this time just go after the main setup.

dudeinaroom

I'm thinking about running my dvd player through the 5.1 inputs but running all except the fronts from the 5.1, and run the fronts of of the stereo out puts(surrounds and center down mixed to stereo) and running that to the front inputs of the AVR to see what it sounds like through SDAs.:)

tonyb

bigaudiofanatic wrote: »

I could probably never have a HT setup without a center. Also I do not think of JL as being a name I want to go with for subs. Yes they are very over priced even in the car audio world. I think I am going to head back for another listen of the ML's this weekend and ask them to omit the sub this time. I am just curious of how it sounds without it. Also as I said earlier I do not want to take steps this time just go after the main setup.

Maybe I underestimated how deep your pockets are then.:) Go for it.

bigaudiofanatic

It is not a matter of how deep they are it is how much you want to get something and how much are you willing to save money to get it. I would rather not go to the movies for 4 months and stop eating out to get something I want. It is all about how badly you want something.

Hawkeye

bigaudiofanatic wrote: »

I could probably never have a HT setup without a center. Also I do not think of JL as being a name I want to go with for subs. Yes they are very over priced even in the car audio world. I think I am going to head back for another listen of the ML's this weekend and ask them to omit the sub this time. I am just curious of how it sounds without it. Also as I said earlier I do not want to take steps this time just go after the main setup.

Just curious, but why do you think JL is overpriced? There is a F110 available for $1400 on the 'Gon. Don't forget your going to be pairing the sub with a $5700 retail for a pair of speakers. I'm sure the other subs mentioned are fine subs, but will they keep up with an ESL? I don't know for sure so that should be an important question.

Gordon

Hawkeye

I called a buddy of mine and one of the above recommendations is a good fit. The Velodyne DD-15 is a top shelf piece for the Vantage. He has a stereo pair for a 2 channel kit and he believes it would make a great HT sub.

Gordon

bigaudiofanatic

Hawkeye wrote: »

Just curious, but why do you think JL is overpriced? There is a F110 available for $1400 on the 'Gon. Don't forget your going to be pairing the sub with a $5700 retail for a pair of speakers. I'm sure the other subs mentioned are fine subs, but will they keep up with an ESL? I don't know for sure so that should be an important question.

Gordon

In all my years of installs for car audio I never cared for JL. Their was always stuff 10 times better for the same price as JL. I know home audio has to be different but wouldn't a ML sub work better?

bigaudiofanatic

Hawkeye wrote: »

I called a buddy of mine and one of the above recommendations is a good fit. The Velodyne DD-15 is a top shelf piece for the Vantage. He has a stereo pair for a 2 channel kit and he believes it would make a great HT sub.

Gordon

Thanks I will keep that in mind.

Hawkeye

bigaudiofanatic wrote: »

In all my years of installs for car audio I never cared for JL. Their was always stuff 10 times better for the same price as JL. I know home audio has to be different but wouldn't a ML sub work better?

The Depth and Descent i by ML are terrific subs. Was thisclose to getting a pair of Descent i's until I heard the JL. Personal preference I guess. I am just leery of a speaker manufacturer making a sub. A whole different ball game. I like to deal with the specialist. If a company makes primarily subs and branches out to speakers, best guess is most of the research money is going to subs. A speaker company that also makes subs is spreading the dollars around and perhaps not focusing on the main market.

Comparing car audio and home audio is a non-starter as far as I'm concerned.

Gordon

bigaudiofanatic

Oh I agree with you on that. Now this weekend I will go back and ask for another listen this time with now sub just the ones built in to the ML's. See what that sounds like. I have a feeling I will still have to get a sub.

Hawkeye

BAF, there are no subs built in on a ML. That is actually a woofer. I don't recall the number for the Vantage (maybe 320?), but the panel crosses over at about 270 Hz on the Spire. For a HT, you will need a sub. No doubt about it. For stereo, it is debatable. If your a basshead, yes.

I know it is hard to do and I'm not recommending you leave CP, but you really need to visit the Martin Logan Owners site. You will get some great advice here at CP but CP does not specialize in an ESL. Go to where the experts are and learn from those that have been down the same road you are now traveling. You can always maintain a presence here. Gosh, I haven't had a Polk product in my rig for years. Still own a couple pair as a matter of fact.

Hope that helps a bit.

Gordon

bigaudiofanatic

Thanks, I will still stay here for advice but I will also look around for more advice.