LSi7 and REL Storm III as Front/Main

polkatese

All,
I am in the process of breaking in the 7 that I bought this week. I hooked it up in place of the 15. The sound is still a bit dull and veiled, but it has the same characteristics as the 9 and 15, with the exception of the low. The vifa is definitely kick ****! Without the sub, the low is lacking by a wide margin, compared to the 9, even more to the 15 (no mystery here...). But, with the REL, it sounds awesome! soundstage increase quite a bit, and sounds very sweet. As a matter of fact, with the REL, or any decent subs, I am willing to bet that it is very capable as a front/main set. Obviously, the receivers/separates that drive them has to be adequate too. Or perhaps the Rotel is just way to comfortable with the LSi in this setup? I will post more once I feel that the 7 is ready for prime time. In the mean time, I am giving the 7 two thumbs up...hell, I am so satisfied with the LSi that my LSi collections is pretty much complete (no desire to get the 25, 'cause then I'll be thinking about dedicated outlet for them seriously, it's hard enough to tweak locations for these pupies, let alone having to worry about the outlet)

mantis

Thats cool man,
I decided to get my Lsi7's on soon so I can play around with them before they go to Surroundback duty.Rel can make just about any small speakers sound incredible.It's just in there nature.Corrover right and man......well you know.
So I see your using the Rotel for break in.....nice.No B&K thoughts yeat????

RuSsMaN

Polkatese, Dan,

I haven't heard the 7's yet, and your tastes probably differ from mine, but what the hell, more details.

Just to guage the bass definition, and presence - Do you feel the 9's can stand alone musically (without a sub)? From my experience I definately say yes. Now obviously, I'm not expecting room-shaking bass from a bookshelf speaker, but certainly some punch, a fairly solid kick-drum, if you follow me (which I believe the 9's do easily).

Point is, I'm looking to go LSi in another tube 2ch rig, probably 30 wpc, and I'm giving the 7 some serious thought, but do NOT want to use them, if I need to augment a powered sub in the rig, I'd step up to the 9.

Additionally, what does (and what is?) the entry level REL start at ($)?

Cheers,
Rooster

Dan, it's 'yet'. Just trying to help.

Frank Z

Russ,
I used my 7's for main duty for a couple of days before my 15's arrived. Although they sounded great by themselves I would strongly recommend the 9's for a 2 channel rig. The 7's just won't play as low as the 9's. I may end up with another pair of 7's for my bedroom setup, but I don't need the low response there, so they should work fine.

polkatese

Russ,
I second Frank for 2 channels, that's the main reason I am going with 7 for the surroundback, which originally was planned to use 9. In 2 channel, 9 is very nice, no need a sub. Entry level REL I think is about $1200 for the Q24?, Dan might know more. The thing I like about the 7 is its size and look. Tiny but very capable!

Dan,
still waiting for the 125.7 Should be in next week for setup...REL rules!

mantis

Russ,
Rel has a new sub that I haven't seen or heard yeat.It's called the quake.It doesn't play down to 20 HZ solid.I believe this would be your entry REL sub.
There are 2 others that can be considered entry level.The Q150E and the Strata III.They come in under 1300.00.For a 2 channel rig,I would lean towards the Strata,it's sealed and very musical.It just dissapears into the room but leaving a solid low extention I haven't heard from any other sub(Including the Velodyne's).Now the Q series of sub's are also very musical,they can slighty draw attention if not setup exactly perefect.They are designed for Home Theater use first and musical second.I really can't take anything away from the Q line when standing on there own.They are still more musical then any Other brand I had listened to,But when compared to the Strata,you now can tell which one is MORE musical.
The 7's I have only listened to once,I thought then they would be perfect for the role of surroundback and rightfully so for a LSI system in 7.1.But as of late,polkatese gave me a direct/indirect adea to use them as mains in a Home Theater setup.Intreguing I know as I would wall mount the front 3 around my screen and run the entire system in small crossec over around 60 hz or so(need testing to find the correct point,B&K is fully adjustable in 5hz from 20 to 150......killer)
When I get mine,I will post a reveiw of exactly what I think about them to stand on there own.As reviewed by Frank and polkatese,I don't think they will,we will see.
I assume no Lsi dealers around you???Same problem here is that holds for you.I have to travel over and hour to listen in a not so great store.

polkatese,
no amp yeat huh,well that just sucks man.Having the preamp just sitting there sucks........Patience is everything huh.O well.
Yep I know REL rules,glad to hear you love yours.....Try to find a more musical sub...it's extremely hard to do under 3 grand.

polkatese

Dan,
yeah, it is suck, in fact, I haven't take it off from the box, might as well wait till I am ready to set them up. Question for you: I have the firmware upgrade cable from Rotel that I used to upload my 1065. It's a DB9 to RJ45 cable. B&K Ref50 also use the same DB9 to RJ45 (RS232) cable. I checked the pin configuration, and it looks identical with the Rotel cable. Short of hooking it up and see, do you know if this will work? It seems a typical IEEE standard to use pin 3 (RX), 2 (TX), and 5 (Ground) on the DB9 crossed to RJ45 pin 2 (RX), 3 (TX). If so, I will be set. Thanks...

MichaelJ

If you're looking at subs, check out Definitive Technology; I ended up with their SuperCube I. Musically blends very well with my fronts, great home theater sound (at 1,500 watts, plenty of power), and the black piano-finish top and small size (14" cube) look good and fit well in my listening room.

polkatese

Second day observation

I've been listening to several album on this setup, and can't understand really how is the soundstage, and depth seems to be almost identical between the 7 and 15 (which is the front set). But, if I turn off the sub, then it becomes obvious that the 7 is just an adorable bookshelf, detailed and clean sounding. Well, I went to the REL site to understand how they did it. this is what I found:

REL sub-bass systems are designed to be connected to the existing power amp's speaker terminals. They are in effect bi-wired with the main speaker cabling. Thus there is no interference or possible corruption of the main stereo signal going to the speakers.

This is quite deliberate. The speaker signal from the power amp is the most robust signal in the reproduction chain between source and speakers. To prove this consider: the power amp is designed to supply power to the speakers. These may be of quite low impedance, just a few Ohms. The sub-bass system draws virtually zero current from the power amp because it is a very high impedance load (technically we say it is voltage driven). Now contrast this with the signal at the source, for example a low output moving coil cartridge. Its output is literally a few millionths of a volt! This signal is notoriously difficult to amplify without distorting it, however subtly. A whole market in high end preamps has developed to satisfy the extremes required by these cartridges. Any corruption (distortion) is irrevocable, it cannot be removed. It will simply be amplified by the subsequent stages. Likewise the signal between the preamp and the power amp. Why bother with gold connections and special signal cables and then add another pair of connectors and cables just to accommodate a sub-bass system? This is how many manufacturers connect the sub-bass system. We at REL believe any connection to the precious signal cable can only harm the signal. This is pretty extreme, but is a pre-requisite for decent audiophile standards. Even with a separate outlet on the preamp, unless it is separately buffered (very unlikely) the presence of the sub-bass system will change the input impedance of the power amp as seen by the preamp. This will change the circuit parameters carefully designed by the amp manufacturer and can certainly affect the signal in different and unpredictable ways. This brings us back full circle to why we insist the only correct way to add a sub-bass system is by bi-wiring from the main power amp. Any other method is a compromise. Compromises do not come easy to an audiophile.

I thought this is bold and different, and perhaps the key differentiation and ingredient of great sound. I had the REL for close to 5 months now, and always think of the 15 as the real reason why my system sounds great (to me), until yesterday. Needless to say, the REL does make my day (and appreciation for its ingenuity in design)

mantis

Thats what I like about REL.Using the supplied balanced speaker cable(by the way they sell just the end and you can use higher quality wire if you choose,like that of what you use to drive your mains with).
It's pretty unbelieveable how you can intergrate a REL sub into a 2 channel system and get it to sound like the mains are full range.No force sound,no thumbing,just pure clean low bass.Beautiful.:)

polkatese

Dan,
thanks for the neutrik speakon option info..one hell of a "sub bass"

btw, do you have info on the upgrade cable on the three post up question? thanks...

mantis

Sorry man forgot about that one.
Your REF50 should have come with the adapter.All you need is a straight Rj45.Like 568a or 568B.As long as the pins line up as straight threw,your cool.You can setup your Prersets this way.I have found setting up the presets with the remote sucks bad.
Speaking of remotes man, the new B&K remote is super killer.Computer programmable.Hot man Hot,dude your going to like it.Take the time and learn about it.Get your read on and go for the programming while your waiting for your amp.It's a hot remote.I want one just to play with it.

polkatese

Thanks, Dan! The remote looks like a cool one, assuming you are talking about MX700. I downloaded SR-10.1 software, haven't had a chance to goof around yet. That's my plan, software has been loaded into my laptop, ready to go. 've been reading the notch filter setup, SPL meter ready to go, but would like to have them hook up before I start playing. Patience is a virtue but I am sure going to like this exercise!