So many idiots.....so little time.

heiney9

The title about says it all. Ebay had been very good to me until a recent transaction. WTH gets in people's heads is beyond me. I guess buying tubes is a crap shoot and I'm willing to bear a large part of the risk but..........

Now I'm being held up because my seller feels he didn't get enough from me for the tubes he sold me. He didn;t realize what he had and didn't list them properly.

H9

george daniel

That sux,,is he/she willing to negotiate a mutually agreeable price--or is it a total snafu at this point?

steveinaz

Here's the problem with Ebay......it requires integrity. Since very few people have integrity anymore, I don't Ebay.

coolsax

that sucks.. i know from experience if you renegotiate the price, Ebay will not help you out in a dispute afterwards b/c it was settled outside of their website. I buy and sell vintage toys and I bought a lot of Transformers, after the auction I got an email stating that certain items in the lot are now not included so we renegotiated and when it took the seller forever to send the items and I filed a dispute, ebay pretty much said i was on my own b/c a deal was negotiated outside of them. I ended up getting most of the lot sent to me but it was still missing a few items, instead of making a profit, i ended up with a slight loss, but that is the hazard of dealing on ebay sometimes which sux. you may just have to settle for your money back and marking a negative on the seller.

hearingimpared

That's a crock of **** Brock. He's punishing you for his lack of homework?

dudeinaroom

steveinaz wrote: »

Here's the problem with Ebay......it requires integrity. Since very few people have integrity anymore, I don't Ebay.

The sad thing is, is that this is so true.

heiney9

george daniel wrote: »

That sux,,is he/she willing to negotiate a mutually agreeable price--or is it a total snafu at this point?

George you have no clue...............I've been doing this a long time and what this idiot has proposed it lunacy. I'll run it down after dinner.

H9

Kex

So ... you won the item, and paid for it, but he won't now ship without extra payment, or something like that?

Systems

heiney9 wrote: »

The title about says it all. Ebay had been very good to me until a recent transaction. WTH gets in people's heads is beyond me. I guess buying tubes is a crap shoot and I'm willing to bear a large part of the risk but..........

Now I'm being held up because my seller feels he didn't get enough from me for the tubes he sold me. He didn;t realize what he had and didn't list them properly.

H9

I'm with you, been having issues with shipping lately. I paid for Priority Mail and they sent it regular parcel post. You really got to watch that too....

heiney9

I'll try to make this short but I do get long winded.

The new Dared integrated I purchased uses 6SL7's as driver tubes. The RCA 5691 "red bank" is the industrial version of the 6SL7 and is considered to be among the top 3 best sounding 6SL7, they are pretty rare but not totally extinct. Did my research as I always do and found NOS from tube dealers could run upto $200+ for a pair. Check ebay auctions they run anywhere from $55 to $150 depending on condition, etc.

Find this auction

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230400267725&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

Note: he's not really sure what he has; you can see what I won them for.

He ships them a bit haphazardly, atleast not how I would ship them) but they are protected enough. I put them in the Dared and HOLY CRAP do they sound great, much better than the current issue Russian Tung Sol's. I get maybe 2 hours on them and the left channel pops, hisses, static and then no sound from the left channel.

I shut everything down and swap the Tung Sol's back in and both channels work fine and play the original Tung Sols for hours no issues.

So it begins.............I contact the seller and tell him one of the tubes died explaining how I used them yadda, yadda, yadda. I suggested that a refund of 1/2 my money would be fair.

He then accuses me or my equipment of blowing up the tube, he said they tested perfect when they left him and sometimes equipment tends to blow this type of tube up easily. It's a fricking industrial tube and it's built like a brick **** house.

He tells me to send both tubes back and he will examine the bad tube and if it hasn't been cooked or dropped then he'll refund $20; if he determines I cooked it I get nothing back and he'll send me both tubes back. He states because I got such a good deal at $62 for the pair I shouldn't get 1/2 my money back because I got a better deal than what the tubes normally sell for. WTF...........it was his auction, he set the opening bid w/o a reserve.

Next instead of returning 1/2 my money he wants to pick a current auction for a single tube in the same condition and he says he will refund the difference between what the current auction (single tube) sells for and the price I paid him for the pair. But, if the single tube sells for more than I paid him for the pair I would agree to pay him the difference.

I paid $62 to him for the pair

Ex. If the single tube sells for $50 he would agree to refund me $12 for the bad tube (keep in mind I'd still only have 1 tubes) If the single tube sells for $80 I'd OWE him and additional $18 and still only have one good tube.

He's angry because now he feels he sold his tubes to low and is holding me up on negotiating for the bad tube. Now he's calling me cheap and a crook for trying to rip him off further by asking for 1/2 my money back. He'll take the tubes back but won't refund my money until he (and only he) determines I didn't cook the tube. If in his warped mind he things I did it then I get nothing.

Eff that!!!! I'm not sending him anything unless I get a partial refund.

coolsax

And you shouldn't the guy didn't do his homework early enough and is trying to be a snake about it.. i would put in a protest to paypal, if they determine that its crap they might give you half your money back.. of course if they find against you, you won't but they sure as aren't going to make you pay more.

hearingimpared

He sounds a little paranoid.

Kex

Well ... it looks like you're faced with opening an incident with PayPal/eBay, but that would involve you asking for a full refund, and sending both tubes back (you would have to pay for return shipping, but proof of shipment should secure a refund if PayPal was used for this modest transaction amount). From what I gather, you may prefer to keep the remaining, functional tube (you liked the sound).

He has 100% positive feedback, so maybe he would prefer to deal with you amicably. You could offer a partial transaction, like requesting a mere $25 refund for the faulty tube, such as during the PayPal dispute process (at the start of filing the dispute, you may make a proposal to the seller, IIRC, when you state what you want from him as a settlement).

george daniel

Brock--you are right,,I did not have a clue,,sheesh,, just reading his terms gave me a headache-wow--good luck sir,,and I really mean that.

heiney9

Kex wrote: »

Well ... it looks like you're faced with opening an incident with PayPal/eBay, but that would involve you asking for a full refund, and sending both tubes back (you would have to pay for return shipping, but proof of shipment should secure a refund if PayPal was used for this modest transaction amount). From what I gather, you may prefer to keep the remaining, functional tube (you liked the sound).

He has 100% positive feedback, so maybe he would prefer to deal with you amicably. You could offer a partial transaction, like requesting a mere $25 refund for the faulty tube, such as during the PayPal dispute process (at the start of filing the dispute, you may make a proposal to the seller, IIRC, when you state what you want from him as a settlement).

It's beyond being amicable here are his last two emails to me. I opened a case with Ebay.

Return both of them to me for a full refund should you not have burned them out or broke them.


I will give you a refund. If you are honest here you will get the refund.

This is best for me since I can resell the other tube to make up for my loss.

I through out fair options to see where you were coming from but it looks like I need to take back both tubes from you and look at these.


I got a feeling I got screwed here since you are not looking at what is reasonable in the big picture.

The big picture was that you got a great deal in the fist place and now want to cut it in half and send me back a tube that does not test at all anymore.

So I need both tubes back to look at them and try to make up for my loss with doing business with you. The sale said no returns and I through out fair options. I sold a tube that test well and now I am going to get 1 back that does not test at all.

No disrespect here but how does one look in the mirror after the offers I have made for seeing for what 1 tube actually goes for or taking 20 dollars to go away.

If you notice everyone who buys tubes from me on my feedback seems to be happy with the deal.

I do not like getting used as a free rental as I am not Kmart or Walmart with deep pockets

The reason you do not like the idea of watching a sale where I give your the choice of picking out the item number to watch what it sells for is that you got a good deal in the first place and are trying to cut my throat on this deal.

I am giving you the option of picking out your own sale and seeing what it sells for in the end and giving you that difference in change and you will not take it. That shows me here that I am dealing with somebody less than geniuine considering you want to send me back a dud now.

You pick the sale and we will watch what one sells for. I really do not mind giving back discounts but when it appears that I am getting my face ground into the grinder I have to back away.


Highlighted area shows he feels since he sold them too low I should now have to take it in the **** because the tube no longer works.

you got a lot of nerve to ask for half back after one tube gets burned out and you got a great deal in the first place.

I am offering you the choice of picking out 1 tube on ebay that looks like yours with a proper ad listing. We follow it and see what it sells for and if it sells for less you get that difference back from me.

I almost feel that you are some kind of crook after not taking a deal like that.

Heres the deal. You are sending me back a burned out tube and now you want the good one for half price of what you paid in a great deal in the first place.

I looked up the average price of what these sell for on ebay for 1 tube and it is 60 dollars average.


You pick out a sale. I follow it and we see what it goes for. How cheap can you get?

Honestly How cheap can you get when you are sending me back a tube that is not going to test at all for me?

See the bold red...........now he looked up the average price so I have to suffer because he didn't know this before he listed and completed the auction.

and finally

I think I deserve two tubes back that test the same as I sent them out. I think tha will be my response to the resolution experts.

You can rectify this by sending me back two tubes that test the same. Why should I give you a refund on a tube that your old electronics blew out?

I do not like being used as a chump. That is not an insult to you.

Here is the deal. I sent you two working tubes that you got a deal. One of them blows out and you want me to cut the first could deal in half.


I look forward to see what the resolution team thinks of this. It shows that the average price per tube on ebay that you bought is 60 dollars. I offered you twenty to go away but you want to be a total pig and send me back a tube you blew out and get the same great orginal deal cut in half again.

We are not on the same wavelength to bring up an old term from 40 years ago that I recall hearing.

Looney bin.

H9

Kex

Just remain courteous and factual in all your responses during the dispute. Keep a copy of that original description like it was your tax return. His lengthy, unpleasant messages should play in your favor with the resolution team IMO, but they may indeed request that you send back both tubes, if he will not agree to a partial refund (for one faulty tube which you will probably still have to send back at your cost).

Polkersince85

I'm going against the grain on this one. It was understood that it was a used vintage item. No returns accepted stated in the auction. These type of auctions without any warranty have inherent risk.

He didn't say how he tested but I suppose he used a tube tester. It could very well have tested good. It did work for a while in your unit. IMO any refund you get out of him would be a plus.

If I was the seller, you would get 1/2 back.

treitz3

Jeeebus. It sounds like a cat I dealt with a year and a half ago. If it's the same cat? We'll find out. I swear your e-mail replies are almost an exact duplicate of the one's I got. Have you talked to him on the phone by chance?

heiney9

I'll also state as a last effort I said I would accept his original offer of $20 refund for the bad tube. But he hasn't responded other than with the last 2 emails calling me a crook and stupid for not taking him up on the offer for a current auction.

The dispute has been filed.

I did get a little better than avg deal on these tubes not quite 2/1 as he states. So I would like to keep the good one and try and find a mate. But whatever Ebay decides that will be final.

He's trying to get me to send both back so he can try and resell the single tube for the $60 or more he thinks he can now get. That's why I'm not sending the tubes back to him plus I fear he won't refund my money.

H9

heiney9

Polkersince85 wrote: »

I'm going against the grain on this one. It was understood that it was a used vintage item. No returns accepted stated in the auction. These type of auctions without any warranty have inherent risk.

He didn't say how he tested but I suppose he used a tube tester. It could very well have tested good. It did work for a while in your unit. IMO any refund you get out of him would be a plus.

If I was the seller, you would get 1/2 back.

I am fully aware of his side and my brother made the same point. Had the tube worked for a week or 10 days I wouldn't even really have asked but for less than 2 hours.

I have had this happen atleast twice as a seller and I have always had the integrity to fix the situation even if I have stated no returns.

That;s why I will leave it up to the dispute center.

H9

heiney9

Polkersince85 wrote: »

IMO any refund you get out of him would be a plus.

He's offered the $20 all along from the very first e-mail. On two occasions I said refund the $20 you agreed to and call it a closed case. He won't even acknowledge that part anymore. He's hellbent on making up the money he thinks he lost out on because he sold the tubes too low.

H9

heiney9

This guy must be bipolar here's the email I just received. His tune has changed.

I have replied to ebay. I really do not know what happened at your home. I can only take your word for it. I hope you understand my end where I feel I sold two tubes that test well

I have asked ebay to take a look at your internal dealings. I told them that if you have not filed before for a return on anyone elses sales for tube. I have no problem giving you back 50 percent of your purchase cost.

If there is a patern going on here that is another issue. If you have not filed with others I take it that you are telling the truth and will be more than happy to cut you 50 pecent back and will even apologize.

I have to be tough on here. I just sold a 2 dollar item as needing to be rebuilt and the buyer is complaining now that the 2 dollar item needs to be rebuilt. This is what I deal with. I will even show you the item number 230402879391

I thought picking out a sale of your choice to watch for the same tube was acutally kind of funny. When you did not like that offer I began to think I was being scammed.

Should you have not have filed with others for fees back on tubes I have no problem and will settle this quickly

treitz3

Alright, this is definitely NOT the same cat. Carry on....

Kex

Good for you H9!

My guess is he wants to protect his 100% rating and resolve this after all, as I suggested previously he might. Just be careful, and don't count any chickens until you've got the refund in hand IMO, so I would keep all messages safe for reference, with dates and times. I'm not sure if eBay will accept to share any information with him about your prior transactions (per his supposed request, but he's probably just trying to save face at this point). It looks like you should have a solution soon enough.

Polkersince85

Put your hat in your hand and get the 50% refund then go to bed. Tomorrow is a new day.

cnh

Wow..what a nut job!! I stay away from ebay as much as possible; too many VARIABLES..if you know what I mean. Of course if its a certified site like Polk ebay-direct...you're fine..

But individual sellers....god knows who THEY are!

Sounds like you did the best you could.

cnh

thsmith

H9, I agree all this is insane. The thing is with this guy he provides no test results in writing only a picture of a meter reading and no return ploicy on his tubes. That right there tells you dealing with this seller is a crap shoot.

I now test all tubes when they arrive before going in my system which so far has avoided one instance of the seller saying my amp blew the tube. Their tube had a short.

Kex

One other thing, H9: if he's really waiting for a response from Ebay/PP, it might be a while. I think they give themselves thirty days to respond, and during the only long dispute I have ever had to live through, they used almost every single day of that time.

heiney9

They said in the email that they would have a resolution in 48 hours. We'll see.

heiney9

thsmith wrote: »

H9, I agree all this is insane. The thing is with this guy he provides no test results in writing only a picture of a meter reading and no return ploicy on his tubes. That right there tells you dealing with this seller is a crap shoot.

I now test all tubes when they arrive before going in my system which so far has avoided one instance of the seller saying my amp blew the tube. Their tube had a short.

I know I take some risks when buying tubes off ebay, but my sole point to him was this issue appeared right out of the box. Had it been a week or ten days I would have taken my lumps and moved on.

He also has to understand one of the reason's his auction sold for about 20-30% less than other auctions for the same tube(s) is because of his poor listing description and lack of hard testing numbers.

I can buy a NOS pair right now from a reputable tube seller with a 10 day guarantee for $165/pr. I'm not willing to pay that right now for a new amp I'm not sure I will keep and it's in a secondary system.

So looking for low cost used tubes is what fits for this particular situation. Atleast that's my take on it and why I was wiling to pay $62 for a good testing used pair.

H9