Velodyne HGS12.......o man......

Dr. Spec

Originally posted by rs159
Doc, speaking of my cousin, to give a better idea of where he's at hi-fi wise, he disconnected his tweeters because his speakers were too bright. Those speakers, BTW are Jensen 3 way towers with 15" woofers "Because 15s are louder" :rolleyes: And talk about perfect voice mathcing, those 15" towers are paired up with one of those $100 "instant surround" sets you can get at CC that include a small center and even smaller surrounds. All this hooked up to a $400 AC3 receiver, none the less.

He's beyond salvation rs - leave him to wallow in ignorant bliss.

Good on ya Sid - it all makes sense now - a good sub like your M&K does it all well - music and HT. No need to compromise for either format. We wouldn't want you running out to buy a POS sub for HT when you already have a great one upstairs that can easily serve double duty.

joe logston

i like polk psw-650 but you got to have two they are real musical with two in stereo off your main speacker leval connection you can get them for $450 ea. for home theater add a placement sub that gose real low that connects to lfe from processor or receiver and place in the right area and you got a awesome bottem end.

mantis

our collective journey to better sound.

I just love that line.........

Better subs.HUH...well if a sub booms then it isn't a sub.If it doesn't go to 20hz,then it isn't a sub.

Velodyne has been the leader in sub technology for many years.They have been doing it better then just about everyone on the planet.Longer allday.
There New HGS series...well not so new.......is a fantastic line.I would put them up against anyones sub in there price class.

Rel is the only sub company that I feel is more musical.Velodyne has more force and the ability to shake the room, but REL does it with more class..........

The whole "better" thing was funny........and correct.Better is better to the person..........can become collective but personal first.........

Dr. Spec

Again - right there with you Dan - Velodyne does it extremely well - they are STILL the reference standard by which all other subs are measured.

That doesn't mean that Velo is the absolute best. It just means that Velo is always in the top five names that roll-off the tongue when discussing world class subs, and is always in the running when considering a purchase.

In fact, the new SVS PB2-Plus will give the big Velo HGS-18 nightmares in ALL measureable performance parameters for about half the street price of the Vel. But that's what competition is all about - the consumer is always the winner.

Regarding your comment on the musicality of any given sub - to quote a well respected designer in the sub industry:

The *musicality* of a subwoofer is dominated by several factors non related to the subwoofer at all (or related incidentally---like a built in XO). The room, the positions of the listening position and position of the subwoofer, the lowpass and highpass XOs used for both the subwoofer and the rest of the speakers, the phasing of the subwoofer relative to the rest of the speakers, and the calibration of the subwoofer.

If you are using dipolar mains, a dipolar subwoofer will also have the advantage of a like acoustical dispersion pattern.

The primary factor not related to the listening room or the setup method is simple user preference. The deepest bass has the longest soundwaves...the longer the soundwaves, the more of a bass *decay* the room will have. Deep bass takes time to decay, that is natural and inherent to the beast. Some folks mistake the longer decay for "slow" bass...when in fact, it is actually a more faithful reproduction of the source material as compared to some of the smaller *musical* subs that cannot produce clean output <30hz.

Then there is an issue of harmonics. Much of the pitch of the musical bass/drum will be determined by the number and amplitude of the harmonics of the fundametal note played. To some ears, if those harmonics are emphasized...even by a very small amount...the *pitch* of the bass guitar is made more obvious. The pacing of the bass line(s) become easier to follow...and folks can feel like that aids in the musical nature of the source playback.

So in the end, the most accurate audio reproduction may not be what someone prefers. Some folks feel a well setup (insert your preferred brand name here) is very musical, others disagree...it is largely a matter of personal preferences.

Group delay is one of those terms that oftens gets introduced in a discussion of sub musicality, but only in ignorance. In the context of sealed sub vs. ported, the 16-22hz tuning for most of the ported subs being mentioned, group delay isn't going to make an audible difference on any bass guitar, kick drum, piano...etc.

Doc

mantis

Doc,
Nice article clip.Ones opnion.Respected all the same.Musical subs are musical subs.Some have a blend and extremely low response,some don't.......B&W and REL.Both musical but giving the superior edge to REL.
Hey now that I'm thinking about it,have you got your REL demo on ?????

Dr. Spec

Originally posted by mantis
Doc, hey now that I'm thinking about it,have you got your REL demo on ?????

Unfortunately, no. There are no Tweeter dealers in upstate NY. Maybe that will change someday. Really, unless I brought my SVS to the dealer, or brought the REL home, it would be hard to draw valid comparisons on what I am used to for bass.

That's not saying I couldn't draw any conclusions from a REL demo. I have a bunch of DVD and music reference material that has been pretty much burned into my "mind's ear" and I could certainly bring that along.

Considering my current 20-39PC-Plus sub, it would take at least the Stentor III to impress me from a clean SPL and deep extension standpoint.

I have been looking hard at the new SVS PB2-Plus, which would be the equivalent of a Studio III on steriods - performance wise.

Here's a link to some pics and a brief description of the PB2-Plus: http://www.svsubwoofers.com/news.htm

One clear advantage: all REL ST line is furniture grade - just gorgeous. The only SVS' that compete on that front are the B4-Plus box and the SS cylinder.

Doc

mantis

Doc,
Your loving the SVS subs huh.I need to get my demo on.
Finding them around her has been used only.I haven't listened to a new one.
Rel subs are advanced in my opnion due to the fact they take 2 signals at once.Speaker level balanced and line level.Having 2 volume knobs,really 2 internal preamps alltogether......sweet man.I think you would really like REL.Flexability is oof the charts.I did this one guys system that has home theater and 2 channel wired into the REL Storm III.The 2 channel system was Rotel seperates with Paradigm Studio monitors and the Home Theater was Denon and Mirage.....in the same room.The 2 channel system faced one way and the theater faced another......it was a mans room......his room.They had another theater for the entire family in the family room.This was his room.The REL was so Impressive and the customer really loved the dual role wired into 2 different systems.......he and myself thought this was extremely cool and flexable.......

Atcvenom,
gotta use what you gotta use man....KLH vs no man.I don't see it happening.You can do it............:eek:

Ceruleance

Going off someone said earlier, how sweet would it be to disguise several SVS designed super subs on steriods as architectural columns, marble exterior, corinthian style, the works. Im not sure how you would pull off having it downfiring without messing up the look of the column, but it would be sweet. Also, you'd have to have a house that was classy enough to pull it off, and that pretty much excludes everyone on this forum

HBombToo

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Dr. Spec

The REL dual input system is nice, however much of that flexibility can be had via the analog bass management systems found in the better DVD-A and SACD players.

Also, as you know, the Denon has the capability of lowering sub volume for the analog external bass input for DVD-A and SACD, and also has the capability of adjusting and remembering the sub level for various input modes (stereo, direct, pure direct, DD/DTS).

So much of the flexibility of the REL dual input system can be found electronically in other components (at least the good ones).

I'm all about bang for the buck and that's where SVS delivers in spades. The performance/dollar ratio is unmatched in the industry, except for DIY. The next time you are at B&K in Buffalo, look me up. I'll host a demo for you - dinner and scotch included.

Doc

mantis

Doc,

I'm all about bang for the buck and that's where SVS delivers in spades. The performance/dollar ratio is unmatched in the industry, except for DIY. The next time you are at B&K in Buffalo, look me up. I'll host a demo for you - dinner and scotch included.

There is no way I can refuse this offer.Next time I'm up there,I'll make it a point to look you up....Thanks bud.