Mantis/Rotel/Pre Amp ?

SPEAKER7

Here's a question for you the B&K/Rotel/ Mantis/Specialist and also for the Polksters on this board with some good knowledge/experiences with separates.

I'm getting closer to my dream of owning a lower high end 2ch music system but I still haven't really decided on a good Pre amp.......I will probably go for the Rotel RB1080 Amp but for the pre amp I am wondering if there is any great pre's out there that is close to or better than the RC 1070 and in the same price range and will be able to mate well with the RB 1080 (this is an audio question not sexual one)?. Your recommendations and suggestions will definitely help guide me in the right direction.


thanks,


dc.

mantis

Speaker7,
I like to match amps with there preamp.I don't care to mix and match.Alot of guys do it for certain tonal goals,but without getting into seperates and playing around with them,it's hard to find what's the best preamp for me.
Why are you wanting/needing such a powerful amp?What exactly are you going to run with it???
You know if you want a cheap alternative to getting into seperates,check out my Rotel pre and amp in the Fleamarket.I'm selling it cheap and it's in real good shape.I have pic's there as well.
Have you looked around at alot of different setups??
The new B&K PT5 is a killer preamp but I would steer you into a B&K amp as well.
Back to addressing your direct question........I would use a Rotel Preamp With the rb1080.
Question for you?????Getting silver?????Ahhh so sweet......

pjdami

Speaker7,

You can't go wrong with either Rotel or B&K in this price range. I have a B&K PT5 in silver and it is a very affordable preamp / tuner for about $600 and the sound is sooo sweet. A perfect match for the PT5 is the new B&K ST 125.2 two channel amp at 125 watts/channel. Long term, I'm going to want to have this amp after I listen to it just so that I can match the seperates like Mantis has suggested. This rig can be had for $1200 - $1500, depending if you buy online or from a retailer. Sometimes buying from a retailer isn't a bad option even if you pay more because you can arrange to bring the equipment home and listen to it in the environment that you are going to play the equipment in. Just make sure that you can exchange the equipment for something else in case you don't like it.

The acoustic environment is so important, yet most salespeople never ask their customers if they have wood floors, ceramic tile, or carpeting in their rooms. It really makes a difference. My Paradigms sound totally different in a smaller room with carpeting than they did in my rather large cathedral ceiling living room with ceramic tile.

Both B&K and Rotel have their own "sonic signature" as Mantis would put it in the way they reproduce sound. Both are very good; but which one you like better only your ears can judge. In my case I have a NAD amp which is being added to the mix. Both of my setups sound great; but they are different.

The best thing you can do is go to your dealers and listen ... listen ... listen....bring music that you are familiar with and don't be hasty in making a decision. Sleep on it and then decide and give it a spin at your house.

Paul

SPEAKER7

Mantis,


Thanks again for another good advise!.......I was pretty much thinking along the lines about buying matching pre's/amps when the time comes but I was curious what you may have in mind....if it's worth while.....but I guess it would be easier to match up with the same make.

Today, I went to the mall and I happened to end up back to the store where they sold the Anthems/Paradigms. This time I actually had and auditions with the Anthem 2ch amp with the studio 100's vs the Denon 4803 recevier. I was very curious how much of a difference between the separates vs the receiver. They played the same material with both set ups and I did notice a difference between the two. The separate wins for sure....the music sounded much tigher,clearer,deeper...etc. I would not say it was 100% better or night vs day but there was definitely some difference especially if they volume was turned up at a higher listening level.

I wish I could have the same demo with the Rotel gear and see how they will compare to the Anthem products with the Studio 100's..........I would have gone withLsi15's with the ring tweeters but price is was a consideration....I can get a pair of 100's without the wood veneer for 1800.00 cdn before taxes and the Lsi15 for 2600.00cdn........I wish I could get the same price for theLsi15 at par.......(wishful thinking) but anyways........(good)separates do sound better than some receivers......(with some exceptions)ie. your B&K and some of the Rotel Receivers.....ect.


....also, the audition was not a pure separate test....it was mainly the amps.....because the way the store had the speakers wired....the used the processor from the Denon 4803 as the pre and the power amp from the Anthem and the other was pure Denon. I wonder if the separate processor would sound even better without using the one from the Denon?


Well my near first real audio experience was pretty fun and it could have lasted a little longer but the wife was getting very....very bored after 1hr of listening and audio talk....so I had to go before I get the boot.

Thanks again for your advice and next I will have go to a Rotel dealer and take a look at their pre/amps but not with the same pair of 100's.


dc.:D

SPEAKER7

pjdami,

thanks for the advice also!!!



SILVER will be my choice when I make my final decision on the equipment.


dc.

pjdami

Speaker7,

My dealer sells both Rotel and Anthem. The Anthems are in a higher price bracket (out of my league for now). I didn't listen to the Anthem pre / amp seperates combo but my dealer told me if I ever wanted to upgrade from what I have now then that's what he would have me listen to. He doesn't have B&K. That's another dealer in town and to them B&K reference stuff is "entry level" because they carry Krell, Lexicon, Music Fidelity, etc.

How much more is the Anthem seperates over the Rotel? I'm curious.

I also believe that Anthem is a sub company of Paradigm now too.

How did the Studio 100s sound to you? Have you heard LSis also?

P.

SPEAKER7

Yes, it will be an entry point for me in the higher end equipment.....I don't think I will ever be able to make it to the hi of hi end equipment but I will hopefully be happy at the bottom of the hi's.


These are the pieces that I am presently looking in to an trying to get some good advice before I make my big leap.

These are Canadian prices.......

Rotel RB1080.....1499.00
Rotel RC1070......749.00

The Rotels still could go lower than the retail price but I haven't had the chance to have a serious talk to a Rotel dealer on pricing.
But I believe the Rotels may be a bit cheaper but the there is not built in tuner for the Rotel. The Rotel pre is even nicer with a built in tuner but the price is 1799.00 (out of my budget).

Anthem LPT1 (pre amp)1050.00
MCA20 (amp) 1499.00
The pre on the Anthem does not have a phono out put but you could by a separate adapter for it......
today the dealer gave me a price of 2200.00 before taxes for the amp/pre combo.

Anthem got bought out by Paradigm.....Anthem makes the transistor gear and Sonic Frontier makes the tube gear.
sub co. correct.....


the 100's sounded very nice ....even better with the separates with lots of clean current running through them.....the bass was very deep and clear......they played a demo cd with a drum solo......I was amazed how low and clear they played and how deepthe bass went without a sub. I cannot say alot about the Lsi but what I hear and my guess they will sound better in the mids/hi's because of the ring tweeters but bass wise... the 100's may be deeper.......however, Mantis has heard and demoed both pairs and owns the Lsi15.....he may be able to give a more accurate account on the two.......I may end up with a pair because they are great for the dollar value and the sound quality is pretty good my listening.



dc.

SPEAKER7

pjdami,


Just curious what your dealer may have mentioned about the Rotel vs the Anthem? Do they have a preference even thought the Anthems are more expensive?

What would you choose between the two if the price where the same?.


....I guess it's probably cheaper here in Canada because they are manufactured here and also the Paradigm but if it was the other case I will be out of my league also (taxes).

dc.

pjdami

Speaker7,

I can't really comment on the Anthem products because I never listened to them. To me it sounded like my dealer was telling me that's what he would suggest if I ever wanted to upgrade from what I have now.

I was sort of ribbing him a little because I've been spending a lot of money in his store lately (but he always gives me a discount compared to retail). He told me the only way not to spend money is to not go looking. Yes, I've become a full fledged audio junkie again like I was during college ten years ago. So not looking at the Anthem was my way of saving money. Is it going to be a night and day difference between the two...probably not. Maybe 10 - 15% and both will sound excellent.

What you should be after is components that are neutral sounding and don't add too much brightness to the music. Rotel, B&K, NAD, they will all give you that.

From what I've seen on my short tenure on this board is that Mantis and others in here will give you solid advice based on experience. It's great to have them around because otherwise it gets to be a very expensive trial and error thing. But this is usually the case if you are looking at the $500 - $1000 range receivers out there. Mistakes can be made matching up with speakers and sound environment. At the level and price of components that you are looking at it will all come down to what you like best and your wallet.

Do you know what type of speakers will the Rotel dealer have for you to audition them on?

P.

SPEAKER7

There's two places that I have been to that carries the Rotel lines....one place carries alot of B&W speakers and Monitor Audio, the other is a smaller dealer that may give me a better deal because his/her overhead may be lower but I can't remember what speakers they carried in their store(nothing really exciting). The first place that I have mentioned, I have not demoed any of their products except a visual/ look and I'm a little too rembarrassed to go back because I will probably not buy my equiment from that store because their prices will be a little more expensive .....they also carry the Classe amps/pre (too expensive) and other funny tube stuff.......


dc.:D

mantis

Speaker7,

....also, the audition was not a pure separate test....it was mainly the amps.....because the way the store had the speakers wired....the used the processor from the Denon 4803 as the pre and the power amp from the Anthem and the other was pure Denon. I wonder if the separate processor would sound even better without using the one from the Denon?

In my experience with Denon,I found the receiver as a preamp didn't sound half as good as a seperate preamp.Denon receivers are and should be used as that,a receiver.You can do anything you want,but I don't care for that.
Yes seperates almost 100% of the time will sound better then a receiver(with very few exceptions).I would really shop around and really listen to many different things before you buy.
Going Rotel or B&K ....you can't go wrong,they both make high quality products for a very affordable price.

As you probably already know on my journey down this road,I went out and bought a Rotel seperate kit used for testing.I have listened to everything I can get my hands on and figured out that it came down to B&K and Rotel for me.In store demo's are one thing,you can get close but in home demo's will determine exactly what your looking for.Thats why I bought the Rotel gear.I was 99% sure Rotel was the way to go for me.B&K set the standard and Rotel came close to beating it.In the end I choose B&K for alot of reasone.......none of which I feel will help you.You will find what your looking for with alot of effort.
Yep silver is badass,I'm going to upgrade my B&K to silver.........ALLDAY!!!!!!:D

mantis

The Denon avr4803 I don't know of,you mean a Denon avr4802R or just a avr4802?????

SPEAKER7

M,

I believe it was the lastest model Denon avr 480_?.

Yes, B&K would probably solve all my questions......only one problem "PRICE".....I think I might just call around to see if there's a B&K dealer in my area and see how expensive their gear is ...........$$$$$$


Just a question on the side........how much of a difference would there be if a higher quality CD player used for audio play back? ie. Rotel, NAD? and what do you think about the Cambridge Audio cd players? I believe the Rotel RCD-1070 wil probably set me back at least close to 1000.00 cdn......and the Cambridge will only cost about half or even less then the price of the Rotel and I guess the NAD may be priced between the two.

Have you listened to any Cambridge CD players (D500) through all your audio experiences? do you think this player is worth picking up and the savings or would be better to save up more and go for the Rotel/NAD gear?


thanks, (I hope your not getting tired of my questions)


dc.

mantis

Speaker7,
If there was anyone on this forum who I could get tired of answering his/her questions would only be polkatese........Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
I don't get tired of answering anyones questions.I enjoy it and it's fun to figure out what your trying to ask......With that being said(had to give a crack on yeah polkatese,all in good fun my man:p)

I haven't listened to Cambridges cd players.Ihave listened to Rotels and NAD's.They are both really nice.I never compared them side to side.Rotel has been making high quality cd players for a long time.They do a good job.
Cd players are fun to demo.Would you be happy with a single disc or would it be a better move to get into multidisc player?One Brand I would consider is the Sony ES.They sound awesome and don't murder you dead unless you get there flapship model in the 777ES.Thats sucker has me sweating.I have been eyeing it up for sometiime.Haven't desided to move in for the kill due to the fact it's a single disc.I don't want a single disc for myself.I own a Megachanger and It broke as of late and I want or better put NEED another megachanger.I love the fact you can store all your cd's in one player and access them anytime you want.I'm also going to use it in a dual role,it's going to be hooked up to the theater gear as well as to the House system.I am also considering buying 4 megachangers for the wife and kids to have there own.Then everyone can listen to there own cd's in there owns room or any room in the house they wish to listen in.
Sorry for going off in my own thinking........back on track here.
Dude give Sony ES a listen ...there better then most people think they are.......SONY ES ..Yes worth the listen.........ALLDAY

SPEAKER7

M, thanks for the lightning response......(man what technology can do)

Well, I kinda looking for a single disc player......I presently have a techniques cd changer hooked up to my receiver and may want to switch back to the good old days with a single disc player that is a better in sound quality than what I have now but I still must purchase my amps/speakers first before I get the cd player.....I guess when you get one thing something else need (wants) to be upgraded) and may be a line conditioner after everything else. Man I need another job also or win a lottery inorder to support this audio addiction.


dc.:D

polkatese

Dan,
ouch! I've got some more whenever you're ready!:D

SPEAKER7

M,

I just took a peek at the Cambridge Audio site and the interesting thing I found is that they use the" Sony" lasers on their cd players.



Outstanding performance and value
What makes a great audio product? Is it the well-built exterior, the finely tuned musical sound or meticulously engineered circuit boards? At Cambridge Audio we know that only a combination of these attributes can produce an outstanding piece of audio equipment.

We are dedicated to the manufacture of innovative, outstanding value products

Nonetheless, we only use high-grade components throughout our product range - commonly found only on more expensive designs. High current Sanken transistors feature regularly on our amplifiers; premium Sony lasers on our CD players and precision Toko coils on our tuners. This is one reason why you'll find our products sound rather better than others at the same price. Our design team's skilled ears listen to all types of music and search for the best possible results. They constantly experiment with component types, signal paths and board layouts until the essence of a performance is reproduced, often finding that the simplest solutions best solve the most complex of engineering challenges. We know that only then will the final experience be engaging and enjoyable.

Most of our manufacturing facilities work to ISO 9002 standards which ensures consistency and quality control from receipt of the smallest of components right up to assembly, testing and dispatch of the finished product.

And at last, with the delivery of our T500 tuner and SRC-01 system remote control we give you "the final piece" - a complete, integrated, Cambridge Audio system..



dc.
:rolleyes:

mantis

polkatese,
keep em coming you keeping me on my heels.I love it.

Believe it or not alot of high end players use Sony's Lasers and transports.They do however use there own selected DAC's.....

TroyD

my .02 on preamps....

If you are assembling a 2ch rig, I'd give some thought to a passive preamp. The Creek OBH-12 is a highly regarded piece that even has a remote control. Another one that I have demoed on several occaisions using sever different amps driving Maggie 3.6's is the McCormack micro line drive. The bonus of the McCormack is that it also has an active output as well as a passive in case you need the added gain.

BDT

SPEAKER7

Thanks! Troy for sharing your inputs on the pre's......

Just curious if these pre's that you have mentioned are expensive? and here's a stupid question.....what is a passive pre?


by the way I hope everything is well with you in the middle East and I hope the situtation over there gets resolved soon and everyone have a safe return home.


dc.:D

RuSsMaN

You will find Sony laser assemblies and transports in a lot of high-end players. Is it the same as your $69 Brick and Mortar Sony, no.

A Passive pre does not have an active (powered) gain stage. You will hear your amp, and your amp only, no added coloration, good or bad, from the preamp. Since a passive pre is not-powered, if you need a phono pre-amp for your turntable, you will need to add one.

Cheers,
Rooster

SPEAKER7

Thanks Russ for the explanation on the passive pre/and the Sony laser.......It's fun learning something new on this site!!!


dc.

mantis

yes it is