Automobile Shut off or on while idling

NJPOLKER

I am curious about this subject. My father in-law always turns his car off when sitting even if its for less than a minute. He says it saves gas and I say not really but you are putting more were and tear on starter parts. I think in the "old" days it would not save gas but with todays more efficient cars it may. Any ideas?

thsmith

Depends on how long you plan to idle. If it more than a minute or 2 I shut it down. I would not think it's a lot of wear and tear on your starter and other parts unless its more than a couple of times a day.

In reality you may be burning as much gas starting a car than idling for a minute

danz1906

Good question,I leave mines running.

Face

Not worth the excess wear and tear IMO.

disneyjoe7

Face wrote: »

Not worth the excess wear and tear IMO.

Agreed +1

bobman1235

Are you talking at like stop lights and stuff? I would think if nothing else the constant heat cycling wouldn't be great, but no idea. Lots of newer cars automatically shut off when you come to a complete stop and "auto start" back up when you let off the brake (hybrids in particular)

nadams

I don't shut mine off, but I do sometimes slip it into neutral (automatic) if I know I'm going to be at a light for a while. I figure it saves some gas since the engine isn't under the load of having the trans in gear. I think the only time I've shut my car off while on the road was on the highway once when I got stuck in a nasty jam due to an accident. After traffic hadn't moved for 5 minutes I figured I'd just shut it off.

sucks2beme

nadams wrote: »

I don't shut mine off, but I do sometimes slip it into neutral (automatic) if I know I'm going to be at a light for a while. I figure it saves some gas since the engine isn't under the load of having the trans in gear. I think the only time I've shut my car off while on the road was on the highway once when I got stuck in a nasty jam due to an accident. After traffic hadn't moved for 5 minutes I figured I'd just shut it off.

On the roadway, that would be the only valid reason. I've been stuck for
extended time in Dallas traffic more times than I like to think of. And when
its well over 100 degrees, overheating is possible.
When in a parking lot,shut it down.

bobman1235

nadams wrote: »

I don't shut mine off, but I do sometimes slip it into neutral (automatic) if I know I'm going to be at a light for a while. I figure it saves some gas since the engine isn't under the load of having the trans in gear. I think the only time I've shut my car off while on the road was on the highway once when I got stuck in a nasty jam due to an accident. After traffic hadn't moved for 5 minutes I figured I'd just shut it off.

I thought the whole point of a torque converter is so you could stop at a stop light and not put any "extra load" on your engine, and not have to put it in neutral.

Polkersince85

If your cooling system and fans are working properly, it doesn't hurt to leave it running. Restarting will put it into closed loop fuel cycle which will burn more fuel.
If the engine has been running hard, it is best to let it ilde for 2-3 min. to let the oil cool the metal down a bit, especially diesels.

sucks2beme

Polkersince85 wrote: »

If your cooling system and fans are working properly, it doesn't hurt to leave it running. Restarting will put it into closed loop fuel cycle which will burn more fuel.
If the engine has been running hard, it is best to let it ilde for 2-3 min. to let the oil cool the metal down a bit, especially diesels.

We are talking about one of those typical Dallas events. Multi-car pileup,
Then cars overheat, catch fire, more fender benders. There's a couple of
major sections of roadway I avoid driving. 635 and 75 central is
one area of roadway that has a major accident every morning.
I was stuck over there one day for two hours, outside temp was about 108.
I shut my car OFF. There always are those crazy people that will cause
secondary accidents trying to make it through the jam. The car fires
are always fun, they always happen in the middle of summer during these
backups. Even the best cooling systems get strained sitting there at a
standstill. Boy am I glad I home office now.

apphd

thsmith wrote: »

Depends on how long you plan to idle. If it more than a minute or 2 I shut it down. I would not think it's a lot of wear and tear on your starter and other parts unless its more than a couple of times a day.

In reality you may be burning as much gas starting a car than idling for a minute

This used to be the case, but with todays electronics and fuel injection other than a short < 1 min idle it is better to turn it off.

As far as wear and tear on the starter and such, who knows? It has to add wear and tear, as far as the trade off with how much the wear and tear co$t you compared to the gas $avings someone with enough interest and more knowledge than me would have to calculate that out to say for sure. It probably will vary too much from model to model, cost of fuel, and idle time to get a cut and dry answer.

But for me I try to turn it off (not stop lights) but it depends on how cold out it is:o and how long I plan to be at idle.

nadams

bobman1235 wrote: »

I thought the whole point of a torque converter is so you could stop at a stop light and not put any "extra load" on your engine, and not have to put it in neutral.

There's a reason you have to keep your foot on the brake when you're in Drive to keep from moving forward. Next time you're in your car at a light, look at the tachometer with the trans in drive. Now, keep your eye on the tach and shift into neutral. You should see your RPMs come up, and then slowly drop back down to idle. This is because you're taking the load off the engine.

NJPOLKER

He, my father in-law, is trying to save gas by turning the engine off. He'll do it if stopped but not a stop lights and such. It does bug me if we/he stops he'll shut it down even if its only for a real short stop. I see no reason but it's his call when we are in his car. Oh yeah, he has a ton of cash and he didn't earn it by being frugal.

brettw22

bobman1235 wrote: »

Are you talking at like stop lights and stuff? I would think if nothing else the constant heat cycling wouldn't be great, but no idea. Lots of newer cars automatically shut off when you come to a complete stop and "auto start" back up when you let off the brake (hybrids in particular)

What vehicles other than Hybrids do this? I don't know of any other so the "lots of newer cars" line struck me as interesting.....

Kex

brettw22 wrote: »

What vehicles other than Hybrids do this? I don't know of any other so the "lots of newer cars" line struck me as interesting.....

I think you're right: I don't know of any vehicles that do this. An interesting thing is, a while ago (maybe ten years or so), all cars, yes: all cars, had to have this feature in Switzerland. I don't know if it's still true, but standard vehicles were equiped with a special stalk control that allowed you to conveniently turn of the engine when stopped at a light witht he flick of the wrist, and once the light turned green, the car would automatically start up and move forward normally. In fact, some of those same gasoline engines would automatically turn the engine off and cruise when travelling downhill. I don't remember if the reason was fuel economy, or pollution prevention, or both.

Personally, I do turn the engine off when stopped at a "cell phone lot" near an airport. All those cars just belching out fumes for thirty minutes at a stop doesn't seem quite right IMO. It's not as if the human body cannot deal with some short term cold or heat. I wonder if anyone will ever do a health study of the possible effects of workers on "drive thru" locations.

Maybe Jstas could contribute some actual facts and science to this discussion, if he sees it (any boring conference calls today Jstas?).

bobman1235

brettw22 wrote: »

What vehicles other than Hybrids do this? I don't know of any other so the "lots of newer cars" line struck me as interesting.....

"Lots of newer cars" was probably an overstatement but I swear I heard of a few non-hybrids that were incorporating this feature. There's nothing inherently "hybrid" about the technology so there's no reason they wouldn't.

Google isn't really helping me find out so I'll just wait for Jstas to get here

Face

bobman1235 wrote: »

Google isn't really helping me find out so I'll just wait for Jstas to get here

Or you can just do what he does: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%25s

Polkersince85 wrote: »

If the engine has been running hard, it is best to let it ilde for 2-3 min. to let the oil cool the metal down a bit, especially diesels.

That really only applies to turbocharged vehicles, gas or diesel.

Jstas

Face wrote: »

Or you can just do what he does: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%25s

That really only applies to turbocharged vehicles, gas or diesel.

I see. :rolleyes:


Well, I was going to help but, oh well.


Ask Face, he's got all the answers.

Face

Don't be so sensitive.

Kex

Face wrote: »

Or you can just do what he does: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%25s ...

Jstas wrote: »

... Well, I was going to help but, oh well.


Ask Face, he's got all the answers.

Now now! You naughty boys! No fighting in the forum.

Face: your homework is to do the wikipedia search and post the results here.

Jstas: your homeork is to make one of your well-informed and useful comments on the topic.

audiobliss

bobman1235 wrote: »

"Lots of newer cars" was probably an overstatement but I swear I heard of a few non-hybrids that were incorporating this feature. There's nothing inherently "hybrid" about the technology so there's no reason they wouldn't.

Google isn't really helping me find out so I'll just wait for Jstas to get here

I'm fairly certain I've read about non-hybrid vehicles incorporating this, as well.

Kex

Actuallly, a quick search revealed that several states have, or are considering laws to prohibit excessive idling.

It turns out that idling for more than as little as ten seconds wastes fuel, and increases pollution linked to cancer, asthma, and other conditions, especially in children.

So, some currently recommend avoiding idling, or warming up an engine in cold climates for more than thirty seconds (which can, apparently, be bad for the engine). New York has the strictest laws in the United States, but several states have regulations concerning excessive idling.

Myth #1: The engine should be warmed up before driving. Reality: Idling is not an effective way to warm up your vehicle, even in cold weather. The best way to do this is to drive the vehicle. With today's modern engines, you need no more than 30 seconds of idling on winter days before driving away.

Myth #2: Idling is good for your engine. Reality: Excessive idling can actually damage your engine components, including cylinders, spark plugs, and exhaust systems. Fuel is only partially combusted when idling because an engine does not operate at its peak temperature. This leads to the build up of fuel residues on cylinder walls that can damage engine components and increase fuel consumption.

Myth #3: Shutting off and restarting your vehicle is hard on the engine and uses more gas than if you leave it running. Reality: Frequent restarting has little impact on engine components like the battery and the starter motor. Component wear caused by restarting the engine is estimated to add $10 per year to the cost of driving, money that will likely be recovered several times over in fuel savings from reduced idling. The bottom line is that more than ten seconds of idling uses more fuel than restarting the engine.

Get the basics here: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/JustOneThing/story?id=7635805

Of course, without the special control I mentioned earlier (I don't know if it's still in use in Switzerland), stopping and starting frequently might be a pain in some cars IMO, especially those without the "one flick" start mechanism, whereby you don't have to keep the key turned until the engine starts: you just flick the key once and let go.

It seems that NJ's father-in-law might be ahead of the curve on this one!

kevhed72

I turn my engine off and pop it in neutral when driving downhill...saves a ton of fuel.

ben62670

Kex wrote: »

Actuallly, a quick search revealed that several states have, or are considering laws to prohibit excessive idling.

It turns out that idling for more than as little as ten seconds wastes fuel, and increases pollution linked to cancer, asthma, and other conditions, especially in children.

So, some currently recommend avoiding idling, or warming up an engine in cold climates for more than thirty seconds (which can, apparently, be bad for the engine). New York has the strictest laws in the United States, but several states have regulations concerning excessive idling.



Get the basics here: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/JustOneThing/story?id=7635805

Of course, without the special control I mentioned earlier (I don't know if it's still in use in Switzerland), stopping and starting frequently might be a pain in some cars IMO, especially those without the "one flick" start mechanism, whereby you don't have to keep the key turned until the engine starts: you just flick the key once and let go.

It seems that NJ's father-in-law might be ahead of the curve on this one!

That's a load of crap. Mostly the driving the car cold. The engine is designed to operate at a certain temperature. When it is outside of the operating temperature the metal isn't fully expanded to where it normally is when warmed up. With newer aluminum engines it is exaggerated even more than with the old cast iron engines. Also cold oil doesn't flow as well as warmed oil. This is the kinda BS the man wants you to believe. Kinda like recycling. The only thing that should be recycled is aluminum. The rest of recycling does more environmental damage than using raw material.
Ben

joeparaski

kevhed72 wrote: »

I turn my engine off and pop it in neutral when driving downhill...saves a ton of fuel.

Hmmm...that's interesting, so no power steering and no power brakes during your downhill run then? Clear road ahead I assume?

Joe

Systems

As of Nov 08 our brilliant city council passed an idling bylaw that carries a fine of $30 if you exceed two minutes. Not an easy law to obey when it's -20c in the middle of January.

bobman1235

Kex wrote: »

It turns out that idling for more than as little as ten seconds wastes fuel, and increases pollution linked to cancer, asthma, and other conditions, especially in children.

Oh boy, as soon as they throw in the "it's all for the children" nonsense there's no fighting it anymore.

apphd

Anyone seen the news report about this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypermiling

I can't remember who did the report but the hypermiler they were riding with for the story always pushed his car in neutral, jumped in, and turned the ignition to save the fuel it takes to get rolling. Tried his hardest to never brake during a turn, he took one so fast he dumped the camera off the dash. Really anally over doing it but he was claiming IIR something like 50 MPG out of a car that everyone else would see 30MPG. Sorry to go some what off topic, but it was pretty funny to see something taken to this extreme.

Kex

bobman1235 wrote: »

Oh boy, as soon as they throw in the "it's all for the children" nonsense there's no fighting it anymore.

Yes ... I did wonder about that one too, but I it might still be true, of course.

Kex

ben62670 wrote: »

That's a load of crap. Mostly the driving the car cold. ...

Well, I don't have any particular mechanical expertise, but IIRC, I've owned a couple of cars that stated the same thing in the manual (not warming the engine up for more than thirty seconds, that is, because of the damage it might eventually do). I think the argument was that it left the car running at the wrong temperature, with poor fuel combustion (or something of that nature) for too long. On the other hand, just driving off allows the engine to warm up in a much shorter time. Of course, it also advised to avoid high engine revs until the engine reaches normal operating temperature.

Actually, I mostly do this whenever I'm driving in cold climates. Not just because of what I've read in the manual, and heard elsewhere, but also because I'm often in hotels, and I'm not standing around for longer than needed in a parking lot filled with people warming their engines up so that the whole place reeks of partially burned gasoline fumes. Those just can't be exactly as healthy as breathing fresh air. That experience alone seems to demonstrate clearly that a warm engine pollutes a whole lot less than a cold, idling one.