mm5251 component speaker series issue

AudiAudiohead

also, thanks a lot man, you have been a lot of help throughout this i appreciate you stickin with me on this!!

arun1963

AudiAudiohead wrote: »

alright. I tried the fader on front 10, but i could barley even hear the rear speakers if i stuck my head back there. So i think 8 should be enough.

Ideally, as you sit up front, you don't want to hear anything from the rear. If you run rears you have 2 lefts and 2 rights. Further, all speakers are at different distances from you. So you would hear the same 'sound' at varying intervals. There would also be phase and cacellation issues between the sound wave from your fronts and rears. If you run rears its only for the folks at the back to get some additional sound fill. Even for the rear pax, 70% of the sound should come from your front stage and only 20-30% from the rearfills. The rears are not for you to hear upfront.

AudiAudiohead wrote: »

Also, i cant seem to get the bass any lower then 5 without it started to rattle on bassy songs at high volumes. possibly raising the hpf slightly would fix this? maybe up to around 90 hz, same with lpf?

This is further validation that your mid install is wrong. So lets solve the problem. Leave the lpf/hpf where they are for now.

AudiAudiohead wrote: »

What do kickpanels look like and how much do they cost to install? I drive stick so i need room down near my feet to shift and everything...

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_044C9001CF/Q-Form-Kick-Panel-Enclosures-Custom-black-carbon-fiber.html?tp=130&skipCS=Y

Thats a link to Crutchfield's section on kickpanels. You can get kicks that are tailored to your cars make and model. Do a bit of googling and browsing. Its best that you find a supplier who makes them for your make and model and then get then installed at your shop.

AudiAudiohead wrote: »

also, with resistors it would quite the tweets down, but would the mids sound as good or better when they are turned up to get the same sound volume?

Frankly, I dont know. All I know is that if you put the resistors on your tweets and you wanted to achieve sound balance, you would have to accept less of everything. Sub bass to highs.

AudiAudiohead wrote: »

If my mids arent installed in the prime location, i dont want to push the mid driver for maximum sound volume and clearity if its not in a secure location. Should i be worried about blowing my speakers? Only if i hear distortion right? thats what hurts speakers... so if anything, i should be worried about blowing my tweeters at this point? Because the tweeters are prob what distort first im thinking at high volumes.

Yes your mids are not installed properly. But you can correct that. Distortion per se doesnt kill your speaker. You blow your speakers if youre overdriving them both with too little or too much power. Youre not doing either so dont worry. In your case the distortion is due to install issues and not related to power.

With a secure install, you could easily run at something like bass -2, mids -2 and highs -4. With a decent install, cleanish signal and adequate power your speakers would run close to their dynamic range. Nut shell, the speaker would 'sound' at its best when playing close to or at its dynamic levels. i.e. each driver playing the frequencies in its range, well.

arun1963

AudiAudiohead wrote: »

also, thanks a lot man, you have been a lot of help throughout this i appreciate you stickin with me on this!!

No problems glad to be of help. Yeah, I have a bit of a vested interest in sticking with you. I want you to walk away from here with your problem solved. Not with a band aid solution.

At the end of the day I want you to love the sound from the polks. I dont want you to look at the polk as a 'bit of compromise'......lol

AudiAudiohead

ok i have come to conclusion that i need to have my speakers re installed... the midbass just distorts to quickly and its never going to sound the way i want it to until i fix it for reals. What can i do besides kickpanels, i drive a stick shift and it just wont work with my style of driving and i cant sacrifice any foot/leg room.

arun1963

I keep going back to this, but can you take off your door panel and take a pic of your door? Lets see if you can do something there.

You're right, unless you install the mid properly, ure never going to hear the speaker properly.

Assuming your door does not have a mounting location and you dont want to use kick panels........I really dont know where else we could install the mids. Maybe Mac / Cody can help out here.......

MacLeod

Find a reputable shop in your area and take it to them. It shouldnt be too hard for a QUALITY installer to fab up a way to mount those mids.

AudiAudiohead

MacLeod wrote: »

Find a reputable shop in your area and take it to them. It shouldnt be too hard for a QUALITY installer to fab up a way to mount those mids.

well maybe ill take it somewhere and see what they can do. Honestly this place was a reputable shop... it seemed like they knew how to work it out. guess not.

MacLeod

I dont see how. Im a lousy installer and even I spotted right off the bat the problem. Any installer that thinks that mounting a powerful 6.5" mid to a plastic trim piece is acceptable isnt an installer Id use. If the 6.5 wouldnt fit in your doors he should tell you that and recommend a 5.25 or at least explain to you that youre gonna get half assed sound quality that way.

What part of the country are you in?

AudiAudiohead

lol san diego california. yeah. i do have a 5.25" i dont think even that would fit, the stock 4" is came with was in the same place. Im thinking maybe kick panels?

arun1963

Im thinking maybe kick panels?

good thinking. That is your best bet. Either that or like Mac said getting a custom made mod for the mid. Your problem will be solved once your mid is securely mounted thereby solving the cancelation issue. Good Luck.

MacLeod

Or you can cut the sheet metal around the opening making it large enough to fit the 5.25's

AudiAudiohead

ok well i took my car into san diego car audio and they said my components are mounted as good as they could be. They said that i would be better off with a different crossover, different less intense tweeter or another set of speakers...

They hooked up a different crossover(alpine) and it quieted down the tweeter a good bit.

So what should i do guys? There isnt much i can do with the install since audis are very hard front stage cars to work on and have no room for kick panels. I have considered changing my cross overs or swapping out my tweeters because my speakers are really just not pleasant to listen to. Any advice guys?

arun1963

Without mounting your mids properly, anything you do would be a band aid solution.

I'm surprised that your installer does'nt have an issue with the way the mids are installed. A passive with a higher xover point and steeper slopes for the tweets & mids would quieten the tweet a bit. But it does nothing for the cancellations in the mid bass. You'll never get decent sound this way.

Without correcting the mid install, its really your call on what you want to do.

AudiAudiohead

the black vapor cover that goes over the speakers/ tweeters and crossover is covering the rear of my mid when it is folded over and allows you to not see the magnet of the mid. I was told that it should be cut around the back of the mid right there to allow more air to pass into the door... But the guy that checked out my install said i should leave the vapor material behind the mid because that is only helping it... But that is not sturdy enough material to allow the sound to bounce off is it?

wouldnt it be better to cut it out so the back of the speaker goes through and allow air to pass into the door?

arun1963

There should be free air behind the cone. So based on that yes cut the vapour cover. But again, thats not the real problem.

AudiAudiohead

arun1963 wrote: »

There should be free air behind the cone. So based on that yes cut the vapour cover. But again, thats not the real problem.

alright, **** dude im really frustrated about this. I need to find a solution before i blow my head off.

MacLeod

Could you take a piece of 1/2" birch plywood and attach it to the door panel and then mount the speaker to that? Put a layer or 2 of Dynamat on the wood as well. This wouldnt be perfect as the mounting plate would still be bolted to a plastic trim panel but it would be a WHOLE lot better than what youve got now.

Next you could put some non hardening modeling clay around the back part of the speaker on the door panel where the speaker mounts. This could help cut down any waves or air flow coming around from the rear.

AudiAudiohead

MacLeod wrote: »

Could you take a piece of 1/2" birch plywood and attach it to the door panel and then mount the speaker to that? Put a layer or 2 of Dynamat on the wood as well. This wouldnt be perfect as the mounting plate would still be bolted to a plastic trim panel but it would be a WHOLE lot better than what youve got now.

Next you could put some non hardening modeling clay around the back part of the speaker on the door panel where the speaker mounts. This could help cut down any waves or air flow coming around from the rear.

so pretty much making a better mount for the speaker to connect to the door panel? putting dynamat in between the layers of wood mount, speaker and panel?

And then should i cut out the vapor cover so air can get passed it and into the door? The guy at the audio shop said it is helping me if anything... But idk about that.

the puddle stuff u were talking about would be for sealing the speaker to the mount?

MacLeod

Are you saying there is a vapor seal in the hole where the speaker inserts??? Hell yes get rid of that thing. Let the speaker vent into the door panel. Its designed to work in free air not choked off like that.

Puddle stuff? Lost me on that one.

Yes. By re-enforcing the mounting location with the birch plywood, youre not going to have to worry about the vibrations from the speaker causing vibrations in the door panel and then those vibrations distorting the speakers output.

AudiAudiohead

its hard to describe, the vapor cover does have a "pocket" for the magnet of the speaker it looks like, not big but noticeable. So when the door panel/vapor cover is ready to be installed to the door, you cant see the back of the speaker because the vapor cover is not cut out and covering it completely. I was thinking i should cut that out to allow the air from the back of the speaker get through. This would allow the door to become more of a box correct?

and sorry, i was trying to ask about the puddy stuff... u were telling me i guess to seal if off with it?

how hard would those bracket be to make?

AudiAudiohead

http://www.brrman.com/audi/1998_sedan/MediaInstall/MediaInstall.htm

3/4 way down the page. Under front speaker.

Would that adapter allow my mids to sound better and be secure?

MacLeod

If youre talking about this:



Yeah, thats what I was getting at. 1/4" would work but if you could fit 1/2", that would be better. If 1/4" is all you could use Id slap a layer of Dynamat on there just for good measure.

AudiAudiohead

wow turning up the gain a little blew my mind in how much better it made my speakers sound. They pretty much dont sound high pitched anymore and sound warmer/powerful. A lot better mid bass and less distortion. Im very happy with how they are currently sounding now and will keep u guys updated...

current HU settings.

treble -6 mid -3 bass -5