Ok experts which of these solutions?

dmamsa · March 2003

I caught the upgrade bug a month back and upgraded my front 3 (rt800i and CS400i) to the LSi line Lsi9s and LSiC.

I thought my onkyo 787 would provide enough juice, but after listening to stereo for about a day I concluded I needed a "cleaner" amp so I borrowd my friends sr800-a bit of improvement but not enough -so my journey continues ...

My usage is 70% movies and TV and 30% music and I am looking for a cleaner quality solution not just louder

here are the options I am looking at (budget around $2500) and my room size is 15X25 (includes an open kitchen)

Option one:

Rotel 1065(5.1) with a small two channel amp to drive the rear backs. one minor concern that I have is the video switching bandwidth on 1065

Option 2:

B&K avr307 and later upgrade it . I called B&K yesteday and they will annouce an upgrade path in couple of weeks. The tech support lady also told me that the video switching rating of 10Mhz is a typo and its actually 100MHz
Mantis - any guestimates on an upgrade cost?

Option 4: (seperates)
RSX 1055 + RM 985 (MK 11): Use the RB 785 for the 5.1 and the RSX 1055 for the surround backs

OR

RSP 1066 + RM 985 (MK 11)+small two channel amp (RB 1050):

I can get a good used RB 985 for around $600 or should I go for the RMB 1075 (due to height I may have space limitations)

Waiting for your input

Steve@3dai · March 2003

Well, for one, unless you HAVE to, don't use any video switching. Directly to the TV is the best solution.

My Arcam AVR-200 runs my 9/C/FX system just fine.

dmamsa · March 2003

Yes that is my intention- but I only have one component input to my plasma and and two sources. I am looking at connecting my HD receiver to the vga input of my plasma.

Steve@3dai · March 2003

http://www.audioauthority.com/aacconsumers/1154c.html

goingganzo · March 2003

keep your 787 and get the referance200.7 b&k you can have it for around 2.5k that is what i am thinking of. then get the referance50 next.

dmamsa · March 2003

thanks for the link- I am waiting for DVI-HDCP card on my plasma- so that I can run DVI cable diretly to it.

dmamsa · March 2003

goingganzo,

I have space limitations. to have big componets like those...

I have read that mismatching pre and amp is not a good idea.

I really want the B&K AVR507 but the $4000 tag is out of my range.

gidrah · March 2003

In my opinion you are severly limiting your options.

Within that price range I probably wouldn't have considered any of those options, but that's me.

Make sure to get an "in home" demo among your considerations. At this price it is obligatory.

dmamsa · March 2003

would you please elaborate on "limiting my options"?

I am very open to suggestions-

I have to give up this upgrade craze after this- I have been told by the higher authorities that this is going to be my last upgrade for a long time

mantis · March 2003

dmomsa,

B&K avr307 and later upgrade it . I called B&K yesteday and they will annouce an upgrade path in couple of weeks. The tech support lady also told me that the video switching rating of 10Mhz is a typo and its actually 100MHz

They are looking at 500.00 to 750.00 range.It's still up in the air.
The avr307 is getting THX ULTRA2 certified with the upgrade.
Your Question about which way to go?
There all good choices but youhaveto deside thats.Money will decide for you unless your open.
If so go with the B&K avr507.......win win as I see it.
The Rotel rsx1065 is a great reciever for it's price.
Rotel seperates are great for there price.
Using your receiver as a preamp???I say no.I'm not a fan of making this move.Want seperates,go seperates.My opnion and I'm sticking to it.
Moneys a problem......buy the amp,save for the preamp.Or save for both at the same time.Your choice here.

wallstreet · March 2003

Originally posted by dmamsa
goingganzo,

I have read that mismatching pre and amp is not a good idea.

What? Where do you hear that wive's tale? That is one of the reasons to go separates.

The 507 got a fantastic review in S&V as a no holds barred top o the line receiver. Beat out the Marantz and Pioneer flagships.

mantis · March 2003

wallstreet,

The 507 got a fantastic review in S&V as a no holds barred top o the line receiver. Beat out the Marantz and Pioneer flagships.

Let me back that up with saying this........there is NO receiver under 5 grand thats better then the avr507........none.The only receiver on the market in the high end market that could compete or take out the avr507 in sound quality would be McIntosh MHT100..........now thats a efin bitchin killer make me weak in the knees receiver if I ever saw one.This badass would shame most lower end seperates......McIntosh is one of the very best sounding companies I ever had the pure pleasure of listening to.Funny My partener(liv4fam)turned me on the Mac.Before I really never really gave them a serious listen...man was I missing out .
Back to the comment.Most Japanese receivers don't give Incredible sound quality.Companies like Marantz,Rotel,Pioneer Elite, B&K,NAD and Mac give you better sound quality.Denon is boarderline making it into the ELITE group i'll call them.They just need alittle help in the dynamic range department and refine there sound just a tad bit more andthey would RULE the receiver market at ALL levels.
If DENON just put sound quality first...........................(deep in thought)

fireshoes · March 2003

Didn't McIntosh just get bought by Denon or something like that?

danger boy · March 2003

but where does that leave Onkyo, HK and Sony?

mantis · March 2003

dangerboy,
they all make fine receivers,but I don't put them in my ELITE class.Sony ES has some issues ......or I have issues with them,great sounding Stuff,better then most.
Remember I refer to flagship receivers.

gidrah · March 2003

Originally posted by dmamsa
would you please elaborate on "limiting my options"?
I am very open to suggestions-

First off, you've already narrowed your search to a few brands that members have suggested. While I'm all for outside opinions, I also understand that it's my money. Any vicarious spending falls on you.

You're looking for a $2.5K unit:
Unless you're deadset on getting "state of the art", I'd give a serious look at a separate pre/pro and separate amps. I recently got a 200w/ch amp for $120.00. 3 of these @ $360 would give $2140.00 for a pre/pro and change. I'd put this amp against many costing 2X.

dmamsa · March 2003

Well guys! I placed my order from the RSX-1055 today (cant wait to get it). I spent the entire saturday driving and auditioning the RSX-1055 at three different location.

I was amazed and delighted at the level of service at these high end audio shops. I did order from a shop which game me the best service (not the best price)- the guy did didicate his time to me while I was at the shop and he got my businees.
I paid $1275 including tax and shipping.

pjdami · March 2003

dmamsa,

Good move on the Rotel bud. I just got mine yesterday and I'm still too flabergasted to write a review. It sounds that very good and its great for HT and two channel stereo too. We can get a seperate power amp later too if we want. The 75 watts per channel is very underrated. Heck, the thing doesn't even break a sweat right now driving my LSis with no distortion at all at about a 60 / 90 volume level (about the loudest I can tolerate).

The setup is a little strange if you are used to Onkyo / Yammer setups like I was. the Remote is a little cumbersome too; but its all about the sound dude. The LSis and the Rotel really tame a lot of sibilance out of some of the cds that I own.

P.

dmamsa · March 2003

pjdami,

Cant wait to get my 1055. I got my lsi9s last week and I am currenly running it with an Onkyo SR800- great speakers.

I almost bought the rb-1050 ( 70X2) but I decided to wait on it.
I am going to buy moster Z2 biwire speaker cables tonight.

you are correct I have to get used to the Rotel remote-its a little "different".

The Sr800 goes back to my friend and I already ebayed my Onkyo 787.

David

polkatese · March 2003

dmamsa,
I believe ATCVenom has a pair that he is trying to unload (Z2 10 ft Monster biwire). I don't know if he still has them, but it's not going to hurt to check with him (it was on Flea Market about a few weeks ago), savings of about $70...

speaking of which, Sean (ATC), are you still around?

mantis · March 2003

He left the forum polkatese due to certain people in here.Shame he posted some cool stuff in the past andI like his writing style.Mature for a man his age.

Glad to see the Rotel following in here growing.You guys are truely getting into some great gear.It's so cool.
See polkatese,see what you started.....WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

polkatese · March 2003

Dan,
I am surprise I don't see that many folks going with 1065....1055 seem to be the HOT ticket item right now......maybe I should speak up more...he..he..he

pjdami · March 2003

Polkatese,

I considered the 1065, but I knew the 1055 would fill my needs for now. A killer furture upgrade would be the 1070 power amp at 130 watts/channel, S/N ratio of 120 db, and damping factor of 500. The Rotel preouts on the 1055 I am willing to bet are going to be a lot "cleaner" sounding than most lesser priced receivers out there. My dealer agreed and said that the Rotel preamp stage / outputs are designed to do this.

So I have room to grow with this receiver.

He also told me about a new line of remotes that he is about to carry. Its called Harmony. A bit pricey, but it has learning functions you can program to "activities" like "watch TV" or "listen to cd" or "watch DVD" and it goes through the program and automatically puts everything where it needs to be. Setup is done online too. I find that pretty cool. If I could get rid of all these dang remotes and just have one it would be great. I'll definitely be checking out this Harmony remote.

Paul

mantis · March 2003

polkatese,
as you know the rsx1055 is easier to get into and has one feature thats better then the rsx1065.The ability to reassign the front amp to surround back duty and add your seperate amp to the main channels.......now thats a cool feature.
The rsx is 1299.99 retail as the rsx1065 is 2000.00.Big difference.

RuSsMaN · March 2003

What Dan, add an amp to a receiver? You sure thats a good idea?

polkatese · March 2003

Paul,
I know you won't go wrong with the 1055 either, it's a great receiver. I am just saying that 1065 seem to be not as popular as the 1055. The redirection of front channel is definitely a plus, as Dan had pointed out.

Dan,
I believe there is one instance of Venom's sighting today. I think he still has the Z2, in case dmamsa is interested in purchasing it. I have to say, though, the 1065 has toroidal power supply, I know it has a bit more current reserve if needed.

pjdami · March 2003

Yes the toroidal transformer in the 1065 is sweet. As you all know, I think its just a price thing obviously why the 1055 is more popular.

I'm pretty much worry free. I have six months with my dealer to "upgrade" to the 1065 if I'm not happy with the 1055. But so far so great...with the 1055.

I do mostly 60% music 40% tv / movies with my main rig so the 1070 power amp does have a toroidal transformer in it so I can take advantage of this add - on in the near future to power my mains in case I feel I'm missing out on something. For about the same price as the 1065 one can have a 1055 + 1070 combo and have the advantage of a seperate power amp with some serious balls to run the mains. I know, I know, why didn't I get a five channel preamp and five channel amp then. Well I know this is really what I would ultimately like to have, but its also much pricier. Maybe in a couple of years.

I'm not really into "loud" music. 90 - 95 db is pretty much the upper limit for me when I listen. Its more about sound quality for me and the convenience of a "do it all" receiver for home theater and music listening. So the 1055 fits these needs perfectly for me right now.

In the office right now with System 2. Cool how my B&K preamp always reminds you "Made in the USA" every time you turn it on. How fitting in these trying times of war.

P.

TroyD · March 2003

Originally posted by mantis
polkatese,
as you know the rsx1055 is easier to get into and has one feature thats better then the rsx1065.The ability to reassign the front amp to surround back duty and add your seperate amp to the main channels.......now thats a cool feature.
The rsx is 1299.99 retail as the rsx1065 is 2000.00.Big difference.

Huh? I thought adding an amp to a receiver was a less than optimal solution???

Man, I'm craving a Belgian waffle...

BDT

pjdami · March 2003

Dan,

You let all these folks "rib" you like this in here??? I guess what goes around comes around. Its all in the fun I'm sure.

As far as adding an amp to the 1055 being a "less than optimal" solution....well that may be true to some extent. However, I did a side-by-side comparison of the 1055 vs. my seperates in the same room and was hard pressed to decide which one sounded better. I didn't push it to ridiculously loud levels (where I think the seperates would shine) but it was still loud (95 - 100 db). If the Rotel preamp stage is sending this clean of a signal to the receiver amps then why wouldn't it be just as good or even better dynamic range if one were to add a seperate Rotel amp. I think it would and the Rotel 1055 is designed to do this.

I believe that Dan was just stating that he doesn't recommend using a receiver for a preamp for most models; but when you get into Rotel, B&K, high end Marantz, PE, etc. the preamp stages are pretty good and you can pull off some decent sound. This is what my dealer told me. Better than strictly seperates....no....but its all about convenience / cost for me.

P.

mantis · March 2003

TroyD and Russman,
You guys really don't do any homework do yeah?You take a simple belief I have which is my personal opnion and turn it into ignorance........Let me take you guys to school for awhile.
The Rotel rsx1055 is a 5 channel receiver.The preamp is a 6.1 preamp built in.Now how can you get 6.1 out of 5 channels???you have to add an amp.Rotel designed there receivers this way and they have there reasons...Current and amps mean anything to you guys???I'll give you a hint......Dynamic Range....Get your learn on would yeah?
The Rotel rsx1055 also has the ability to send the front channels to the surroundbck channel duty.This is unique to the rsx1055 and a cool one nonetheless.even for people like you 2,you could effectively add more powerful amps to the front and not waste any internal amps...........sound good????

Rotel make a matching amp in the rb1050.Use it at the surroundback or fronts you choice,want a bigger amp????allday.

So with that little learning lesson you can see why you need to add external amps.Ther NOT built in.

TroyD · April 2003

School, huh? Why don't you just come out and call us morons Dan.

OK, now, previously you argued vociforously against using a receiver as a preamp. Now, is it because of the brand or because of the design? What about matching the amps? Are you suggesting that the internal amps will match the outboard amps EXACTLY? I mean, we are all about matching, right? If using a receiver as a preamp is a less than ideal situation, what difference doesn't make what channels you use them on, they don't match right? You and Liv made a pretty elaborate case for that with the ML rig. Surely the amps in the reciever are different, right? Different dynamic range and all that, right?

Now, 'splain to me what the downside of a receiver is. (Hint, it has nothing to do with brand). It's the fact that you have a tuner, preamp and amps all crammed in to a very small space. Two problems with this. Inherently, there has to be compromises for a myriad of reasons. The other problem is the tuner. Putting a tuner in the same proximity as the amp introduces noise. If you will notice, there are high end tuner/preamp combos and amp/preamp combos but once you combine all three, for whatever reason you get less than optimal results.

Now, I use a receiver as a preamp and have no issues with it, so, actually I endorse the idea. You are the one waffling on the issue.

BDT

Ok experts which of these solutions?

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