PSW505 on Onkyo TX-SR607

itsmeid01

I'm not sure on the proper setup of my PSW505 on my Onkyo TX-SR607. The PSW505 has an LFE (unfiltered input) and L/R Line In (filtered input). The TX-SR607 has two PRE OUT jacks.

If I'm reading the TX-SR607 manual correctly, I should connect the PRE OUT to Line In on the sub. While the sub has L/R inputs, I connected to the Left side only.

According to PSW505 manual, when using PRE OUT from the receiver I should set the subwooker to off in my receiver. However, my receiver has the Audyssey setup, so it seems I should have it on for it to perform the calibration.

Not sure if I did it right or not. Also not sure how I should have the crossover frequency dial setup on the sub during the calibration.

Anyone know the proper setup?

concealer404

There should be a sub out on that AVR...

itsmeid01

Thanks for the response. I changed to use LFE connection and set LPF to 80Hz. as you suggested. I already had subwoofer set to on.

It has more 'uummphh'.

I think by having it use the Line In, and subwoofer set to on in the receiver, I was getting double the crossover (i.e. crossover was set on receiver and on subwoofer). Resulting in less boom.

I appreciate the help.

itsmeid01

Unfortunately, No. That option is only available with Full range front speakers. I have the Monitor 40 bookshelf speakers for the fronts.

bullcity

hey-wow it was tough to find this topic anywhere, i hope ya'll can help. i can't seem to get this combo to function under normal volume levels.

I was excited when I bought my PA surround sound setup and then very pleased with the sound quality of my 7 speaker setup (no sub yet). Am using Monitor 70s for the fronts, Monitor 50's for the surrounds, CS2 center and then utilize zone 2 with CS1s. Was even happy with the base produced by the Monitor 70s. Got them all thru newegg.com. Got them all on sale: monitor 70: $170each, monitor 50: $83 each, CS1: $63each, and CS2: $110. Very happy with these prices.

even tho I was content with the bass, I continued reading reviews and became convinced that a sub would make the sound experience even better. I was leaning between the PSW10 (50 watt-$120) and the PSW505 (300 watt-$230). I decided to go for the PSW505 and figured if nothing else I would just keep the sub turned to low and not use the all the extra power.

Well, I got my sub 2 days ago and I have connected a single composite cable from SUB OUT on my Onkyo 607 to LFE IN on my PSW505. Then ran Audyssey but barely got any noise during that setup process. Tho looking at the speaker levels, audyssey set the sub to -11db.

I have since gone back and turned the sub level to +12db. And the sub knob is turned to about 70% --- all to make the bass just fit with the music. It's only once I turn the reciever above 50 that I notice the sub.

This doesn't seem normal and I am not sure what to do. I have read that running speaker wires to the sub, and then from the sub to my front speakers will give noticeable gains though that requires purchase of additional wire and I want to investigate more first.

any suggestions?

cnh

A lot of things can be operating there. I suggest you make this a 'separate' thread so more people can help you.

I can't really add much to xcapri's excellent instructions above....except to say that I've noticed that the older Onkyos will not HOLD sub db adjustments after you turn them off and power them back up unless you adjust the sub while listening, manually, to the test tone? It is possible that your +12 sub boost returns to -11 when you power down and then power up again. I know this doesn't make sense...but it is true, at least on older onkyos.

You don't need to use anything but the LFE in on the sub with your receiver. And it is not unusual to ...I have to raise Onkyo sound levels to 50 or above to hear reasonable sound levels from the receiverand usually have mine in the 50-70 range depending on whether I'm listening to louder HT or just moderate music levels.

Finally auto-setups usely don't do bass settings well, so it is not unusual to have to rev up your sub and run it a bit hotter than what Audyssey set it at. Most of us readjust, at least the sub level.

cnh

concealer404

If it's another Oinker receiver, you may have to enable the "double bass" feature to achieve satisfactory signal levels.

bullcity

Could it be that the LFE input sensitivity is higher than the output by my receiver?

itsmeid01

Audyssey set my sub at -10db, and I have the volume on the sub about 60-70%.

I notice that if Dynamic EQ is off, the sound is flat (across all speakers), and seems the sub woofer doesn't have the boom. Check your settings: Audio Adjust->Audyssey->Dynamic EQ.

With this on, it sounds really good.

Mike LoManaco

Some things I would like to add as a 605 owner, and someone with experience dealing with the Onkyo receivers' "quirky issues" that usually manifest as "lack of oooomph" -- I've experienced this dating back to the TX-SR600 model too.

Did you guys try and go under the INPUT SETUP menu and adjust the "IntelliVolume" level? This acts like a power amp's sensitivity control in that it gives the connected equipment to a certain input on the Onkyo a "boost" at lower numbers on the volume display -- the original intent of the IntelliVolume control was to "even out" volumes between components when you switch amongst them, but I have always used it as a sort of "amp gain" control, which boosts volume output of a connected device (CD player, DVD player, etc.) at a lower volume range. My Blu-ray player and CD changer are both running at "+10dB" IntelliVolume (it goes to "+12dB") and most material played back sounds loud and satisfying at lower volume numbers -- I can't get most well-recorded Blu-ray or DVD soundtracks to go above 50!

Try adjusting this IntelliVolume control; I'm assuming you're all running it at "0dB" across the board, unless I'm wrong...

bullcity

So I ended up dropping the SUB OUT to LFE connection.

I ran my front speaker wires into the sub, and then the from my sub to the fronts. big difference.

before I had sub out on my receiver at +12db (originally set at -11db by Audyssey), and the sub volume knob at around 70% and was disappointed by the sound quality. now on my receiver, I have sub turned off, the front speakers at full band. On the receiver, the front speakers are at -4db (set by Audyssey) and the sub volume knob at 40%. Volume is louder and the sound quality is better.

still not sure if the lack of signal in my first setup was due to the receiver out or the sub in side.


oh- and fyi- my front speakers will work even if my psw 505 has the power cord unplugged

Mike LoManaco

bullcity wrote: »

So I ended up dropping the SUB OUT to LFE connection.

I ran my front speaker wires into the sub, and then the from my sub to the fronts. big difference.

before I had sub out on my receiver at +12db (originally set at -11db by Audyssey), and the sub volume knob at around 70% and was disappointed by the sound quality. now on my receiver, I have sub turned off, the front speakers at full band. On the receiver, the front speakers are at -4db (set by Audyssey) and the sub volume knob at 40%. Volume is louder and the sound quality is better.

still not sure if the lack of signal in my first setup was due to the receiver out or the sub in side.


oh- and fyi- my front speakers will work even if my psw 505 has the power cord unplugged

What do you mean by "you had your sub out on your receiver to +12dB"? Do you mean the subwoofer's calibration level inside the setup menu? If so, that's the highest it will go -- I don't recommend running any speaker in the setup at full +12dB level.

bullcity

Mike LoManaco wrote:

I can't get most well-recorded Blu-ray or DVD soundtracks to go above 50!

I noticed something similar with mine. After first unpackaging the receiver, I plugged it in and cranked the volume to 80. After messing with the speaker calibrations, the max volume was lowered.

Mike LoManaco wrote: »

What do you mean by "you had your sub out on your receiver to +12dB"? Do you mean the subwoofer's calibration level inside the setup menu? If so, that's the highest it will go -- I don't recommend running any speaker in the setup at full +12dB level.

Yes. I meant describe the calibration settings you spoke of. And yes, I would agree that no speaker (or sub calibration setting for that matter) should be set at +12db. The lack of bass even at this level was one of my reasons for posting.
I can't help but think that both the quality and the depth of sound (I mean to say the differences between soft and loud volumes) would be diminished by keeping this setting

cnh

One of the problems of using the auto callibration on Onkyos is that it WILL limit the Volume settings. You'd be better off getting an SPL meter and callibrating each channel manually....that way you don't engage that limiting circuitry or whatever it is?

More of a hassle but more 'control' over the AVR...

cnh

Mike LoManaco

bullcity wrote: »

I noticed something similar with mine. After first unpackaging the receiver, I plugged it in and cranked the volume to 80. After messing with the speaker calibrations, the max volume was lowered.

No, that's not what I meant -- you are right that the max volume number changes when you put the speaker calibration values and IntelliVolume into the "+" range, but what I was referring to was the fact that once I turned my IntelliVolume control up to "+10dB" for my DVD and CD inputs, the audio is deafening below the "50" volume mark on the display...which is what alot of people complain about that first get Onkyo receivers (that their receivers won't get loud until 60 or so on the display)...when you raise that IntelliVolume control and add positive speaker calibration values, that perceived powerful volume level is at a lower number on the display...

Some will say that it's all the same in the end, but I prefer experiencing louder volumes at lower display numbers...

Yes. I meant describe the calibration settings you spoke of.

Huh?

And yes, I would agree that no speaker (or sub calibration setting for that matter) should be set at +12db. The lack of bass even at this level was one of my reasons for posting.

I've always been told, since the first days of getting into this hobby, that no speaker calibration should be left at a maximum setting for dBs; it doesn't leave any headroom for adjustments, for one thing. It's something that just stayed with me the more I learned.

I can't help but think that both the quality and the depth of sound (I mean to say the differences between soft and loud volumes) would be diminished by keeping this setting

Well, as I said above, once you "max" anything out on a receiver -- IntelliVolume (on Onkyos), calibration levels -- it leaves little "headroom" to work with, if any, and that's bad. When you're cranking a system, you need headroom for the dynamics to "breathe" before distortion sets in -- that's why no speaker level trim or amp gain should ever be as far up as it could go.

Mike LoManaco

cnh wrote: »

One of the problems of using the auto callibration on Onkyos is that it WILL limit the Volume settings.

What do you mean by this, cnh?

What we're talking about here has more to do with the receiver reaching "max headroom extension" and when things like speaker trim levels or the IntelliVolume system are maxed out to values like "+12dB", this reduces the receiver's maximum output number on the display, and robs headroom for the speakers...

In other words, my 605 goes from 0 to 99, and then Max, for volume...but since I've calibrated with positive (+) values for the speakers and a 10dB boost for IntelliVolume, that maximum number of "99" has changed on my system -- it reduces in relation to what you have plugged in as positive values.

As far as I know from all auto setup reports for the Onkyos with Audyssey, the Audyssey almost always sets speakers into the negative section (-) for speaker calibration, and most folks complain of "too much of a low amp output" from their Onkyos -- that's the only thing I've heard in terms of the Audyssey system.

You'd be better off getting an SPL meter and callibrating each channel manually....that way you don't engage that limiting circuitry or whatever it is?

More of a hassle but more 'control' over the AVR...

cnh

It's always the best and "official" road to take, using an SPL meter, so you know for sure all your speakers are being output at the same range as the soundtrack is supposed to be heard, but that still doesn't mean that people can't use the IntelliVolume control to make certain input sources sound "louder" at lower volume numbers on the display; but there is good deal of truth to what you say about the "limiting" kind of going away with this method...by using an SPL meter, most speaker levels would be in the "0dB" range across the board, which would let the receiver crank much higher than if they were set in the +dBs region.

cnh

We're in agreement, auto calibration systems are getting better and better...but you will still see many audio reviewers using SPL meters as a baseline from which to compare the 'accuracy'' of the auto system..

Also, I have calibrated by hand on both a 605 and an 805 and this causes almost no decrease in the maximum volume level of 99...perhaps it decreased to 94 if that with dbs added to all 5 speakers.

Other than that I agree with you..you have my apollogies for going off topic..the Intelli-volume feature is a nice item on Onkyos and does what you explain so well.

I'm with you on the other posts above.

cnh

Mike LoManaco

cnh wrote: »

Although auto calibration systems are getting better and better...you will still see many ausio reviewers using SPL meters as a baseline from which to compare the 'accuracy'' of the auto system..

I'm not arguing that one with you; indeed, I said in my last post that it's the professional way to do it!

Also, I have calibrated by hand on both a 605 and an 805 and this causes almost no decrease in the maximum volume level of 99...perhaps it decreased to 94 if that with dbs added to all 5 speakers.

Right -- that's what I am referring to (that last part of your statement) in that if ANY of the speakers have ADDED dBs to them (in the + range) then the maximum volume for the receiver is decreased from 99...same thing when you add +dBs to the IntelliVolume...

Other than that I agree with you..you have my apollogies for going off topic..

I'm with you on the other posts above.

cnh

Absolutely no problem! Discussing this obssession of audio/HT is never going off topic, at least not in my book!

cnh

Sorry Mike,

You got my post before I caught the fact that we were agreeing and edited above....got to slow down and read more carefully sometimes...your are right above...

cnh

Mike LoManaco

No problemo, cnh!

Take care.

john E

After you set it up with Audyssey setup most of the speaker will be -6 to -10,but after you have set it up make sure Dynamic EQ is set to on,or it will have a flat sound.When I first got my Onkyo TX-SR607 ,I was just setting it up by ear and then I decided to put my Audyssey setup mic in and let it ajust it's self ,and man what a difference ,it sound so much better ,But I made sure my Dynamic EQ was on and set my Dynamic volume to light and it sound great to me.

Mike LoManaco

john E wrote: »

After you set it up with Audyssey setup most of the speaker will be -6 to -10,but after you have set it up make sure Dynamic EQ is set to on,or it will have a flat sound.When I first got my Onkyo TX-SR607 ,I was just setting it up by ear and then I decided to put my Audyssey setup mic in and let it ajust it's self ,and man what a difference ,it sound so much better ,But I made sure my Dynamic EQ was on and set my Dynamic volume to light and it sound great to me.

John,

Interesting points about utilizing Audyssey and Dynamic EQ; I have the predecessor to your 607, the 605, and I have it set to meter/taste without Audyssey running. I also have the EQ completely off, as it's usually felt this colors sound. Have you really found the audio quality to be that much more involving with Audyssey engaged and EQ trims on?

Slinger182

I have a 505 on the way to my house tomorrow. I couldn't pass it up at $250 shipped. There seems to be a lot of posts/threads with problems getting the darn thing hooked up through LFE and after reading just about all them I am way confused. I have the oinker 606 and am hoping it's not a pain to hook up. Can it really be as difficult as some people are making it out to be? I was figuring on room placement being the most difficult thing to do with this thing.

itsmeid01

There's three different ways to setup the 505; line inputs, speaker inputs, and LFE. Then depending on which of those you use, you have to setup your receiver to have subwoofer on/off, crossover etc. So, if you are like me, I didn't know how this all interacted together until asking a few questions.

Since you want to use the LFE input... Take a look at post #3 in this thread from xcapri79. It's for the 607, but I would imagine the 606 would be setup similar. Follow this, and setup will be a snap.

Mike LoManaco

Why would these AVRs -- whether they be a 500 series or 600 series -- be difficult to connect in terms of LFE channel? If someone is using a self-powered sub, just run the sub's pre jack to the AVR's pre jack; are there other connection snafus with this that are causing other issues?

Like It's Me said, for LFE in/out, it's simple -- just run a coax connection between the sub and the AVR's sub pre channel, then go under the setup menu and assign SUBWOOFER: YES while setting the other channels to appropriate crossover values (most likely 80Hz across the board). Then, make individual channel trim adjustments including sub.

Slinger182

Mike that's what I've been thinking but there sure seems to be a lot of people with issues with any of the PSW subs.

Mike LoManaco

Slinger182 wrote: »

Mike that's what I've been thinking but there sure seems to be a lot of people with issues with any of the PSW subs.

Perhaps we'll get some more feedback about it.

Slinger182

Mike LoManaco wrote: »

Like It's Me said, for LFE in/out, it's simple -- just run a coax connection between the sub and the AVR's sub pre channel, then go under the setup menu and assign SUBWOOFER: YES while setting the other channels to appropriate crossover values (most likely 80Hz across the board). Then, make individual channel trim adjustments including sub.

I did this and all seems to be a go and sounds great. Looking forward to messing with room placement once my longer sub cable gets here. As always thanks to all for sharing the knowledge and experience.

Mike LoManaco

Slinger182 wrote: »

I did this and all seems to be a go and sounds great. Looking forward to messing with room placement once my longer sub cable gets here. As always thanks to all for sharing the knowledge and experience.

Glad we could be of help.

Did you run LFE pre to LFE pre sub/receiver?

Slinger182

Mike LoManaco wrote: »

Did you run LFE pre to LFE pre sub/receiver?

Yes I did seemed to be pretty straight forward.

Mike LoManaco

xcapri79 wrote: »

Good advice Mike.

Thanks, Capri.

I've found the Polk PSW's and DSW's pretty straight forward to set up using either the LFE input or the speaker inputs. I own several of each type.
The other day I set up a pair of PSW10's with speaker inputs connected to a pair of Monitor 50's. They make a nice combo. I have 4 PSW505's in my master bedroom home theater and one in my 2 channel testing/listening room.