denon,onkyo or hk?

steelervicsteelervic Posts: 142
edited March 2003 in 2 Channel Audio
i was thinking about getting a new receiver, i have been looking at onkyo, denon and hk(i have also been told sherwood is good). any opinions on how these compare would be greatly appreciated.
thanks, vic
Post edited by steelervic on

Comments

  • dorokusaidorokusai Posts: 25,488
    edited March 2003
    My only offer is strictly opinion. Denon is very nice solid receiver. HK/Onkyo also have alot of fans. Sherwood would be better if the name wasn't so **** sounding. Good Luck. ;)
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,445
    edited March 2003
    Easy one..Denon allday,just ask the Doc his opnion,he's loving his.I loved mine.Everyone loves there's.......easy choice as I see it.

    If you want to compare.......they don't Denon is superior.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • nellis8166nellis8166 Posts: 292
    edited March 2003
    I would agree with ATC on this one. I had a HK 525 and it blew up after three months of very light use and it was very underpowered. The preamp out signals are terrible. I took it back to Circuit City and exchanged for the Oink TR-SX800. What a difference!!! 3 times as powerful as the HK. I have an Adcom running my mains and center and the preouts are much better. Really improved the bass response on my LSi9s, sub pre out is as it should be as well.
    IMO the sound quality is as good or better than the HK. It's also THX certified which is great for music. My advice...stay away from the HK's. They have had some quality control issues of late.

    -N
    RTi10
    CSi5
    RTi28
    SVS PB12-ISD2

    Denon 2106(pre/pro)
    Adcom 5503(200x3)

    Audioquest Diamondback ICS
    Kimber Kable 8tc biwire(mains and center)

    "Don't let your silly dreams fall in between the crack of the bed and the wall."
    -J. James
  • nellis8166nellis8166 Posts: 292
    edited March 2003
    Oops...I meant to say that being THX certified is great for movies not music.

    -N
    RTi10
    CSi5
    RTi28
    SVS PB12-ISD2

    Denon 2106(pre/pro)
    Adcom 5503(200x3)

    Audioquest Diamondback ICS
    Kimber Kable 8tc biwire(mains and center)

    "Don't let your silly dreams fall in between the crack of the bed and the wall."
    -J. James
  • brettw22brettw22 Posts: 7,700
    edited March 2003
    Originally posted by mantis
    Easy one..Denon allday,just ask the Doc his opnion,he's loving his.I loved mine.Everyone loves there's.......easy choice as I see it.

    If you want to compare.......they don't Denon is superior.

    Mantis........you feel that Denon would be superior to that of Onkyo, but what about Integra? I like my Onkyo, but then it's pre DD, so it's gotta go.......
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  • mantismantis Posts: 15,445
    edited March 2003
    brett22,
    Yes I feel Denon is a superior product.They make better choices when it comes to features.Over Integra as well.
    Example....Multiroom using built in amps...
    With Integra,you can use the surroundback channels to power a 2nd zone,but here's the catch....you cannot use 5.1 in the main room anymore meaning the Integra doesn't have the processing power to run home theater and multiroom powered.That sucks.
    Denon on the other hand can.You can use the surroundback channels to power a 2nd zone,just like the Integra but you still can use full 5.1 in the main zone.It doesn't effect that zone at all.The first time I did a 2 zone system with Integra,I was on the phone with Tech support fighting with them over this.My customer has floored.I was floored.
    Now lets get into sound quality.
    Integra is very bright and edgy in my opnion.It's down right harsh with Polk RT series speakers.I believe this is a bad move unless you enjoy extreme trebble.Integra also lacks dynamic range when running 5.1 or 7.1,2 channel i'ts ok but all goes south when running movies.
    Don't get me wrong here,Integra receivers are fine products,when mated with the right speakers like Mirage or Anthony Gallo.Then Integra shines.B&W,Dynaudio,Polk have all sounded horrible with Integra.Still I say it's personal,you gotta go with what you like and believe in.
    Denon and polk RT series speakers are a match made in heaven.I think this is the best overall combo for them.Denon is warm and natural sounding.It really hepls out the agressive Tri Lam tweeter of polks.Denon calms everything down to tolarable trebble levels.Nice!!
    Denon is also more flexable of a receiver with alot of different speakers.Klipsch works great,Boston Acoustics and polk are all fine on Denon.
    Hey Brettw22 I forget exactly what you own,why not leave a list of all your gear and I can steer you into the right Denon.Most likely all RT series owners would benefit from the avr3803.It's a killer receiver with tons of features.I'm sure it will get receiver of the year again at it's price range.Denon does it right there.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • brettw22brettw22 Posts: 7,700
    edited March 2003
    Originally posted by mantis
    Hey Brettw22 I forget exactly what you own,why not leave a list of all your gear and I can steer you into the right Denon.

    Receiver: Onkyo TX-SV727
    DVD: H/K DVD50
    Mains: RT16's
    Center: CS1000p
    Surrounds: F/X1000's
    Sub: PSW1200

    Extra Speakers: Pair of RT16's (probably for future use of rear surrounds in a house rather than here in the apartment)
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  • mantismantis Posts: 15,445
    edited March 2003
    brettw22,
    so you got an extra pair of rt16's,sweat.what color?Got Pic's???
    Yes as I mentioned above,I see a Denon avr3803 in your future.You could use the rt16's now with the avr3803 in anohter room with the built in amps.dual zone and completely independant.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • MxStYlEpOlKmAnMxStYlEpOlKmAn Posts: 2,116
    edited March 2003
    I would not rule out pioneer elite. I think any of the PE's could rule Oinks, and HKs. They look good, their loaded with features, clean power.
    Damn you all, damn you all to hell.......
    I promised myself
    No more speakers. None. Nada. And then you posted this!!!!
    Damn you all! - ATC
  • Dr. SpecDr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited March 2003
    As Mantis stated, I recently upgraded to the 3803 over a Kenwood VR-6050.

    I bought the Denon for three reasons:

    1) I could buy it at dealer cost.
    2) It is a 7.1 AVR with all the latest decoding.
    3) It is a new model and the DSP and DAC hardware in the front end is directly lifted from the flagship 5803.

    I was not expecting a significant improvement in sound quality. Boy was I wrong. The Denon reveals subtle sounds and ambience that the Kenwood completely missed. The treble from the Denon is so much more lifelike over the Kenwood it isn't even funny. I had no idea the tri-lams had that kind of detail and natural timbre locked up inside them.

    At least in my system, the Denon has effortless power and stays clean in 2 channel mode all the way up to SPLs averaging in the mid 90s for music - and that's about -7 on the Master Volume with the system properly calibrated to Reference Level.

    All things are relative - I have nothing to compare to, except where I came from. And this is a decided improvement - big time.

    And Dan - you were RIGHT. My Toshiba DVD player WAS causing the decoding problem in DTS-ES 6.1 Discrete. New DVD player = no problems! Of course it made sense since it happened at the exact same time intervals on more than one disc (twice on Blade II and once on LOTR-FOTR EE). Thanks for the tip! Not only did I solve my decoding problem, but my picture quality is now simply amazing and the Toshiba was no slouch in that department. That Silicon Image/DVDO PureProgressive (SiI504) Decoding Engine is really remarkable. If it stays reliable I'll be thrilled with this upgrade too.

    Signed - Going Broke But So Far Very Happy

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen ([email protected])
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
  • brettw22brettw22 Posts: 7,700
    edited March 2003
    Originally posted by mantis
    brettw22,
    so you got an extra pair of rt16's,sweat.what color?Got Pic's???
    Yes as I mentioned above,I see a Denon avr3803 in your future.You could use the rt16's now with the avr3803 in anohter room with the built in amps.dual zone and completely independant.

    I got another pair because I like the one's I have so much. Both pair are black. I wasn't aware that they were available in any other color. I haven't done the pics thing yet because I'm in the never ending process of cleaning up and un-cluttering the place. That, and I wanna wait until I have the new equipment setup that I'm looking for..... I also have some shelves to put up, but that involves drilling into a concrete wall.

    Dual zone isn't something that has been a big appeal to me, mostly because I don't know that i would want to run some 40+ feet of wire throughout the place for a pair of speaks. With the 3803, are you saying that I could be listening to the stereo in zone 2 and a movie in the main room? I'm not too aware of the ins and outs of Dual Zone stuff.......
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  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,127
    edited March 2003
    I have an entry level Denon receiver and like it just fine.

    I'd suggest listening to all of your choices and picking the one that best suits your needs.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,445
    edited March 2003
    Doc,
    I Assume you got a new Denon DVD Player.I seen the Toshiba's Fault at other things.
    Dude Toshiba makes the worse DVD players on the market next to Panasonic in my opnion.You'll never know that unless you do side by side comparsion.
    Glad you figured out your problem.
    Brettw22,
    They also came in OAK.I saw a apir and wanted them.One of my customers has a pair and might let me have em if he upgrades.....I always wanted a pair of rt16's.I like em alot.

    Multiroom made easy with the Denon avr3803.
    You can Watch a DVD movie in the 1st zone(theater room) and then listen to something else like a CD from a cd player in the 2nd zone.All at the same time.Running wires 40+feet is no big deal as long as you know what your doing and use high quality wire to do so.Stay away from power wires and such and BAM Multiroom.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • steelervicsteelervic Posts: 142
    edited March 2003
    i have an onkyo 676 powering my ht, now i want a 2channel receiver to run a pair of rt2000i's. it sounds like denon is the favorite so far, any model suggestions( 395, 685)? thanks for the continued input.
    vic
  • HBombTooHBombToo Posts: 5,335
    edited March 2003
    Originally posted by mantis
    Doc,
    I Assume you got a new Denon DVD Player.I seen the Toshiba's Fault at other things.
    Dude Toshiba makes the worse DVD players on the market next to Panasonic in my opnion.You'll never know that unless you do side by side comparsion.

    Doc, do you have data on light and dark analysis similar to your treatment of Bass???... Perception aside, I want data!, not perception.
    ***WAREMTAE***
  • brettw22brettw22 Posts: 7,700
    edited March 2003
    Originally posted by mantis
    They also came in OAK.I saw a apir and wanted them.One of my customers has a pair and might let me have em if he upgrades.....I always wanted a pair of rt16's.I like em alot.

    I'd love to see a pair of these in Oak.......interesting........THOSE you'd need to take some pics of for me.......
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  • mantismantis Posts: 15,445
    edited March 2003
    brettw22,
    even the bootm was OAK.They where dead sexy.Look great in oak.
    If and when I return to his house,I will bring along my digital camera and snap a few pic's.This dude even bought a floor demo psw300 sub with the plastic cover so you can see inside.How wild is that???I saw it in his system and almost fell over.......
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,445
    edited March 2003
    Originally posted by steelervic
    i have an onkyo 676 powering my ht, now i want a 2channel receiver to run a pair of rt2000i's. it sounds like denon is the favorite so far, any model suggestions( 395, 685)? thanks for the continued input.
    vic
    If your looking for a receiver to power a 2 channel system and you own rt2000i's I see a Denon 685 in your future.It's a powerful beast.It's also dual zone but not powered,2nd amp required.It comes with a 2nd zone remote.Cool little thing.We used to use this receiver you customer who wanted multiroom but wanted to do it on the cheap.A Niles speaker selector box and away we went.
    This receiver will power your rt2000i's allday.It's worth the trip to listen.Or better yeat bring it home for a inhome demo,it will stay there I'm sure.:)
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • steelervicsteelervic Posts: 142
    edited March 2003
    what do you think about the 395 or the onkyo 8511?
    thanks for your input
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,445
    edited March 2003
    The Onkyo 8511 has the same qualities as there home theater receivers.I have Installed plenty of the Onkyo's to know I don't care for it.
    The Denon 385 is nice,But the 685 is much much better.I'd lay in a course for the 685 at maxium warp.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • steelervicsteelervic Posts: 142
    edited March 2003
    thanks for your help
    vic
  • Dr. SpecDr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited March 2003
    Originally posted by HBombToo


    Doc, do you have data on light and dark analysis similar to your treatment of Bass???... Perception aside, I want data!, not perception.

    I'm not sure what you mean here, Henry. Please clarify.

    Ed
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen ([email protected])
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
  • TonyPTXTonyPTX Posts: 545
    edited March 2003
    Originally posted by mantis

    Dude Toshiba makes the worse DVD players on the market next to Panasonic in my opnion.You'll never know that unless you do side by side comparsion.

    Hm... I find that to be an odd comment. I think Toshiba makes some pretty good DVD's for the price. Hell, the recent version of The Perfect Vision even gave it good marks for being a sub $300 DVD player.

    To second my opinion, the local dealer that I bought my Rotel from refuses to carry Asian products (NAD, Rotel, Paradigm, Cal Lab Audio, Anthem, etc.) He said the only "Japanese" product he sells is the Toshiba DVD players because they're fairly decent. Yeah he sells Rotel and NAD DVD players too, but to see the Toshiba on the shelf I was shocked...
    Damn....8 lines...I've gotta put my sig on a diet now....
  • brettw22brettw22 Posts: 7,700
    edited March 2003
    Originally posted by TonyPTX
    To second my opinion, the local dealer that I bought my Rotel from refuses to carry Asian products (NAD, Rotel, Paradigm, Cal Lab Audio, Anthem, etc.)

    Tell your dealer that Anthem isn't Japanese. It's Canadian.......

    I'm sure the Toshiba is a good bang for your buck player, but realistically, you can't honestly believe that it's top of the line, right?
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  • TonyPTXTonyPTX Posts: 545
    edited March 2003
    Originally posted by brettw22


    Tell your dealer that Anthem isn't Japanese. It's Canadian.......

    Well sure. I never said that Anthem was Japanese. I hear that Paradigm has bought them...
    Originally posted by brettw22

    I'm sure the Toshiba is a good bang for your buck player, but realistically, you can't honestly believe that it's top of the line, right?

    I never claimed it was top of the line. If you wanted that, I'd tell you to get a PE 47A, Denon DVD-9000, Krell DVD Standard, Simaudio, or even an Ayre D1. What I just stated was that Toshiba isn as bad as mantis claims it to be.
    Damn....8 lines...I've gotta put my sig on a diet now....
  • shackshack Posts: 11,284
    edited March 2003
    Brett...I think the brands listed are what the dealer carries since none of them are Japanese.

    I too think mantis is dead wrong about Toshiba and Panasonic. Can you get better?... sure...but you have to spend a lot more. In the sub $300 range you will be hard pressed to find better players than the Panasonic RP-82 and RP-62 or the Toshiba SD4800. I spent a lot of time looking for a 2nd DVD player. I have a 5 year old Toshiba that has performed flawlessly. I looked, compared, switched on the same TV, compared some more with many brands (Panasonic, Toshiba, Sony, Denon, Pioneer, NAD, Samsung). Panasonic and Toshiba were the best in their class. If I wanted to spend $1,000 or so the Denon DVD-3800 is a stunning DVD player. But it is not worth it to me to spend that much more. The NAD T562 at $800 was a wonderful DVD player. I ended up spending less than $150 for the Panasonic RP-62. For me I think the law of diminishing returns applies here...the extra $650 to $850 would not buy me that much more improvement (IMO). I am not alone in this. The RP-82 is getting twice its MSRP on ebay and every reviewer that has tested it has raved about it's picture quality. Sorry mantis...I think you are off base.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

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  • setzer808setzer808 Posts: 173
    edited March 2003
    I feel that either the Oink or the Denon would be fine choices, but don't rule out companies like Yamaha and Outlaw. The Tweeter stores (HiFi Buys in some areas) are having some VERY nice sales on Yamaha recievers at the moment. My yammy runs my RT series just fine...you'll likely never need to worry about power if you get a yammy...a little bright at times, but hey...I like that. There's my 2 cents.
    Polk CS245i Center
    Polk RT55i Mains
    Polk RT25i Rears
    Polk PSW-350 Sub -in storage.
    Yamaha RX-V681 A/V Reciever
    Sony SCD-CE595 SACD Player
  • danger boydanger boy Posts: 15,888
    edited March 2003
    Originally posted by shack
    Brett...I think the brands listed are what the dealer carries since none of them are Japanese.

    I too think mantis is dead wrong about Toshiba and Panasonic. Can you get better?... sure...but you have to spend a lot more. In the sub $300 range you will be hard pressed to find better players than the Panasonic RP-82 and RP-62 or the Toshiba SD4800. I spent a lot of time looking for a 2nd DVD player. I have a 5 year old Toshiba that has performed flawlessly. I looked, compared, switched on the same TV, compared some more with many brands (Panasonic, Toshiba, Sony, Denon, Pioneer, NAD, Samsung). Panasonic and Toshiba were the best in their class. If I wanted to spend $1,000 or so the Denon DVD-3800 is a stunning DVD player. But it is not worth it to me to spend that much more. The NAD T562 at $800 was a wonderful DVD player. I ended up spending less than $150 for the Panasonic RP-62. For me I think the law of diminishing returns applies here...the extra $650 to $850 would not buy me that much more improvement (IMO). I am not alone in this. The RP-82 is getting twice its MSRP on ebay and every reviewer that has tested it has raved about it's picture quality. Sorry mantis...I think you are off base.

    I have to agree with shack, i too have had good luck with Toshiba DVD players. I still have the first one i purchased way back in 1998. Toshiba SD3109, dual tray, still works great. My current dvd player is also a good unit.. with DVD-audio. Toshiba SD4700. Yeah not top of the line in either the Toshbia line or other lines.. but I can't afford anything much more above that price range. I guess reliability means more to me than name brands, but picture quality and sound are also very important too.
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
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