Center Channel substitutions

FireWire
FireWire Posts: 11
edited March 2003 in Speakers
Hello,

Just received as gift a pair of bookshelf speakers and I'd like know what happend and it is recommanded to subsitute a center channel for bookshelf speakers? What will I loose in term of performance?

Thanks in advance
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Fire*Wire
Post edited by FireWire on
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  • BeginnersLuck
    BeginnersLuck Posts: 213
    edited March 2003
    I don't quite understand the first part of your post. What happened to what? As far as using a book shelf as a center channel, it will do the job perfectly. However there are some concerns:

    1) How tall is the bookshelf...ideally you want your center tweeter within 2 feet of the front L/R tweeters. Any more than that and it might sound funny.

    2) The booksehlves should contain the same drivers as the fronts. Exact match is prefered.

    3) If you are using a direct view TV...make sure it is magnetically shielded to prevent pitcure distortion and possible damage to your set.

    4) What bookshelves are you talking about...share with us please.

    5) Welcome to the forums!

    -BL
    TWFTPQ
    Receiver: Outlaw 1050
    Amps: Outlaw M-200 x 3 (Powering Mains and Center)
    Mains: RT800i; Center: CS400i; Surrounds: F/X500i
    Sub1: 214L Vented Tempest
    Sub2: 122L Sealed Tempest
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited March 2003
    Yeah, what he said.
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • rs159
    rs159 Posts: 1,027
    edited March 2003
    I think he said bookshelf *speakers* - as in more than one. If that is the case then watch out for dispersion issues.
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  • FireWire
    FireWire Posts: 11
    edited March 2003
    Thank you for your tips and your warm welcome. Actually have received these... R15

    my biggest concerns are image distorsion and good sound. Will these do the job?

    Thanks
    ___________________________
    Fire*Wire
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  • rs159
    rs159 Posts: 1,027
    edited March 2003
    Actually, I've been thinking about using 3 pairs of RTi28s (or whatever their replacement is when I get my Outlaw 1050) and using them for a perfectly matched 6.1 system, one speaker per channel. Any objections? Please don't tell me they aren't big enough, the completed system will have two DIY subs up front and a PSW202 in back so lack of thumpage shouldn't be a problem :)
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  • dthomps
    dthomps Posts: 352
    edited March 2003
    rs159
    I would bet that 6 38's would sound pretty good. And it sounds like you will have more than enough bass for your theater too. The only concern I would have is the dropoff from the lowest frequencies of the 38's to the highest frequencies of your subwoofers. I am not too keen on all of this, but I am pretty sure that there are bass management systems you could impliment to take care of it though, you should check into it. Mike
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  • joe logston
    joe logston Posts: 882
    edited March 2003
    how you get free speakers, i like to know, i wish some one would give me free speakers. just kiding i got plenty speakers, and welcome to the forum fire wire.
    . rt-7 mains
    rt-20p surounds
    cs-400i front center
    cs-350 ls rear center
    2 energy take 5, efects
    2- psw-650 , subs
    1- 15" audiosource sub

    lets all go to the next ces.
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  • joe logston
    joe logston Posts: 882
    edited March 2003
    dthomps, i was thinking of 6 lsi-9 with 4 psw-650, i posted this setup wend the lsi-9 frist came out. but to much money
    . rt-7 mains
    rt-20p surounds
    cs-400i front center
    cs-350 ls rear center
    2 energy take 5, efects
    2- psw-650 , subs
    1- 15" audiosource sub

    lets all go to the next ces.
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  • rs159
    rs159 Posts: 1,027
    edited March 2003
    Originally posted by dthomps
    rs159
    I would bet that 6 38's would sound pretty good. And it sounds like you will have more than enough bass for your theater too. The only concern I would have is the dropoff from the lowest frequencies of the 38's to the highest frequencies of your subwoofers. I am not too keen on all of this, but I am pretty sure that there are bass management systems you could impliment to take care of it though, you should check into it. Mike

    The Outlaw 1050 has filters at (I think) 40, 60, 80, 100, 120, 150, and 200hz. That's one of the reasons for me choosing it - most recievers in that price range only have "large" or "small", not much versitility and unique systems (like mine will be) need unique filter settings. Of course I wont know until I get it working, but I think I will go full range on the mains and set the Xover at the sub amps. It will probably end up somewhere between 80 and 100hz (since the woofers in the subs will be what, 8 inches from the mains?). The left and right surrounds will be wired thru the PSW202, and the left and right surrounds will be filtered at the reciever at 60hz (since going too low I have found can really be hard on the 202). The rear surround will be filtered at 80, which I *think* will send the rear center bass to the PSW202. If anybody has the Outlaw allready then please enlighten me. Pretty screwy settings, but then it's a pretty non-standard system.
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  • rs159
    rs159 Posts: 1,027
    edited March 2003
    Before this thread gets derailed and crashes into the river, I did see some slight picture distortion once when an R15 was placed directly on top of a cheapo tube TV. It would probably be a good idea to turn the R15 you are using for the center upside down (to get the woofer, which has a bigger magnet, away from the tube), and put the grilles on upside down (so the logo is on the bottom). It might not hurt to put it on a shelf an inch or two above the TV also. Polk says the 15s are sheilded, but they probably weren't designed to be so close to a monitor.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,200
    edited March 2003
    here's the river......Whats wrong with using center channels as center channels?????????????
    Matching center channels to your system????????
    Why the need to modify the Idea????
    Whats the logic behind it?????

    I don't understand this logic,it escapes me.....
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • rs159
    rs159 Posts: 1,027
    edited March 2003
    Originally posted by mantis
    here's the river......Whats wrong with using center channels as center channels?????????????
    Matching center channels to your system????????
    Why the need to modify the Idea????
    Whats the logic behind it?????

    I don't understand this logic,it escapes me.....

    More perfect voice matching, and even a center speaker designed with particular speakers in mind wont be *perfectly* matched, the only perfect match would be the exact same speaker. Plus, if like FireWire you have extra speakers or you have older speakers for which no center was designed, you can only use the same speaker as the mains to get true voice matching.

    In my experience, listening to music w/ a center can be OK, but turn off the center and it's like a whole new dimension opens up. Things aren't limited to the line between the speakers, they go 10 feet behind and 5 feet in front, and it's all alot more transparent. It's like that pesky center channel was collapsing everything into itself and the mains were just an extension of the center. If you have the exact same speaker for mains and center, and everything is perfectly set up (i.e. perfectly time aligned), then you might be able to get some of the same transparency since there are subtle audible clues that tell you the center is different if you are using a true center channel.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,200
    edited March 2003
    rs159,
    I totally agree with you except I never heard a matching centerchannel not able to keep up or tonally mismatch the mains.

    You know if you want Perfect world, then LCR's are the best way to go.B&W and other make em.Polk should take the Centerchannel and Make LCR's out of the LSi series.Then you would have it,perfect world my man.I feel you here.

    If you don't know what LCR's are(I'm sure you do) go check out B&W's website and take a look at there's.I have installed them many times and felt they sounded really good.I likem.:)
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • rs159
    rs159 Posts: 1,027
    edited March 2003
    In a perfect world, CC would have B&W too. Problem is, my current mains are RTi28s that I bought there, and CC's trade in policy would be the only way I could not loose money trading them in. (BTW, Sean, I'm taking good care of them, no blown tweeters ;) )
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  • FireWire
    FireWire Posts: 11
    edited March 2003
    Friends,

    First of all thanks to Rs159 for nice tips on reversing the speaker upsidesdown which I think it's brilliant. I must say that I have R30 as for main and rear. Right now the front ones get the center and with this new pair of speakers I thought it would be nice to take one as center and the other one to complete my 6.1 system. If I have a bigger budget then I would bought a really nice Polk Center channel but at the moment I'd like to try something new with what I have without breaking anything. I shall not try these tips not before I'm really sure and all your precious inputs are given to this thread. I just don't want to take any chances.

    Oh, and Joe, thanks for the warm welcome. Good gifts come once in a decade so I'm very thankful for that.:p
    ___________________________
    Fire*Wire
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  • rs159
    rs159 Posts: 1,027
    edited March 2003
    Originally posted by FireWire
    Friends,

    First of all thanks to Rs159 for nice tips on reversing the speaker upsidesdown which I think it's brilliant...

    Actually, I take that back. I just found out that Polk puts the holes at different widths top and bottom, so it wont fit right. Sorry, sounded like it would work.
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  • NINjesse
    NINjesse Posts: 12
    edited March 2003
    ok the only wat to really have a perfectly matched system is to run the same center for all your speakers, ohh yeah and that still wouldnt be perfectly matched due to manufacturing imperfections. back to the original ? a center is designed more as a mid that can replicate voice very well as apposed to a cover all speaker. basicly let a speaker do what it is desinged to do. dont try and short change it, its a center because thats what it does right.
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