Marantz and Lsi-15 Speakers

jmos

Gday, I currently have the Marantz SA8003 CD/SACD player hooked up to my Nad T973 7 channel PA and Onkyo 875.
I am curious what improvement I would achieve if I purchased the Marantz PM8003 Integrated amp ? the only problem its only 2 x 70watts@8ohms.
I couild boost the power by purchasing the Marantz MA6100 power amps 120watts@8ohms.
I have picked these products because I have been very happy with th SA8003 that I already have plus I can buy these from Singapore and have them delivered to my door at almost a third of the cost in Australia.
The next models up in the range for both Integrated amps and power amps really jump up in price.
What do you think, is this astrang way of doing things, I intend to run this system separate to my HT system.
Apparently I cannot use the HT bypass on the PM8003 connected to the Nad T973 and Onkyo 875.
The description on the Marantz for the (PRE OUT jacks) and (POWER AMP/DIRECT IN) are the following

PRE OUT jacks
These jacks are for connection via the input jacks of
another main amplifier or active subwoofers. These
jacks cannot be used in Power Amp Direct mode.

POWER AMP DIRECT IN jacks
These jacks are used as input jacks when you use
this unit as a power amplifier in Power Amp Direct
mode. If you use another preamplifier, connect it via
these jacks. In this status, the sound volume cannot
be adjusted by turning the VOLUME knob.

Thanks

VXR8

G'day jmos,

Just on purchasing Marantz gear from Singapore, just make sure it is designed to run on 240V Australian. I had issues with a Marantz SR-8001 I purchased from China brand new (eBay store JHTK). It was designed to run on 220-240V, but ended blowing up 2 internal amplifiers (that were not being used at the time) because it wasn't designed for our current supply. If you purchase a product, like your SA8003 and the model number ends in a K, be very wary. Australian designed and built units end in N. I actually requested a written report from Marantz Hong Kong who repaired the unit on 2 occasions and they specifically advised me that the unit designed for Asia does not have the additional safety requirements built in to suit our supply, that they build specifically for us and that was why I had issues - hence to say I received a full refund of the purchase price.

jmos

I just found the following info, sounds like current may be the shortfall ?
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82848

Kex

This seems like more of a sideways move to me. You could get the Marantz integrated, and use it as a pre/pro while still using the T973, in which case you would get the benefit of the Marantz DACs vs. Onkyo DACs, if you prefer those (depending on how you make your source component connections).

Power wise, the T973 has a far more subtantial capability than the PM8003, even if you add the MA6100!

T973:
- 7 x 140 w/ch.
- Dynamic power 230w @ 8 ohms, 390w @ 4 ohms.
- Damping factor >300.

PM8003:
- 2 x 70 w/ch @ 8 ohms.
- 2 x 100 w/ch @ 4 ohms.
- Damping factor = 100.

MA6100:
- 1 x 125w @ 8 ohms.
- Damping factor = 60.
- May not be used with speakers with a lower impedance than 8 ohms.

The large difference between the NAD T973's capability for dynamic power when driving an 8 ohm load, compared to the dynamic power when driving a 4 ohm load, would seem to indicate a much more sturdy power capability when compared to the Marantz integrated. The rated damping factor would seem to support this conclusion, but ...

... in any case, IMO, people focus far too minutely on the printed specifications as discussed above, and this can be severly misleading IMO. Nevermind the w/ch, you may or may not have an actual preference for the way the NAD amplifier you currently use drives your speakers in any case. For example, I prefer the way my NAD T754 receiver, with 70w/ch, drives my speakers when compared to separates from a different brand, when I tried them, even though they were rated at 125w/ch.

If you don't like NAD styling, then perhaps you should try something different such as Marantz, but probably not the options you listed above IMO, unless you keep using the T973 also. If you do like NAD styling, but want a more compact stereo system, then perhaps you should try a NAD integrated such as the C375BEE, or just add a different pre/pro than the Onkyo you currently use.

- http://www.nadelectronics.com/img/datasheets/NAD_T973.pdf
- http://us.marantz.com/PM8003_U_EN.pdf
- http://us.marantz.com/c_ma6100_man.pdf
- http://www.nadelectronics.com/img/datasheets/NAD_C375BEE.pdf

reeltrouble1

G'day back to you. I see no reason why you cannot use the HT bypass on the Marantz if the Marantz has a by-pass input, but I will say the Oinker is the limiting piece in this rig, receivers are fine for HT but very much a compromise to convenience for 2ch sound quality, so you need a pre with 2ch by-pass no matter what model and that is where to put the money in this rig.

You would hook the SACD directly to the 2ch pre then output to your NAD channel 1 & 2 you would hook the receiver (oinker) from its channel 1 & 2 preouts (assuming it has pre-outs) to the by-pass input on the 2ch pre. You would hook your DVD player directly to the receiver for movies.

Now some receivers have there own by-pass settings but that is another tale someone else can tell.

Have fun.

RT1

jmos

Thanks for your replys, its really appreciated.
You can tell I am pretty new to this and I havn't quite got my head around all the technical terms yet, I missed the info on the MA6100:May not be used with speakers with a lower impedance than 8 ohms.

I am currently running Lsi15's, LsiC and four LsiFX's. I would have liked to use the Nad with the onkyo for Ht and than connect the Pm8003 with ht bypass

I received the following comments from another forum

(You can't use it as a pre-amp (ie run the pre-outs to an external power amp) in HT bypass mode. Jmos if this is what you want to do then you would be better off getting a separate pre-amp for you two channel duties. Either that or use the on-board power amps from the PM8003 to drive your front two speakers)
As mentioned above, if you mean an integrated (like the PM8003), then no you can't connect it to your NAD Power Amp while using HT Bypass. If you plan to use the ht bypass function on the PM8003 then you HAVE to use the internal PM8003 amplification.

If however you use a Pre-amp with ht-bypass, then you can follow Gutty's instructions.

The difference is in the nature of a pre-amp as opposed to an integrated amp. The 2-channel pre-amp simply takes the input signals and conditions then for amplification (including volume control - although not if ht bypass is activated). The integrated takes the input signals, conditions them and then amplifies (unless you use the pre-outs, which will not work when ht bypass is activated).

(Besides, why pay for an integrated amp when you are not planning on using its internal amplification?

As for bi-amping, although possible, this would not suit your needs. As mentioned the pre-outs do not work when ht bypass is enabled.

Of course if you choose not to make use of use the ht-bypass on the PM8003, then you can use the PM8003 pre-outs to your NAD. As Gutty says, in this case all you have to do is make sure the volume of the PM8003 is set to the same point (determined by sound level measurements during AVR setup) every time you use the Onkyo 875)

Thanks again, I will do some more research, the info you have provided will help alot.

Face

Do you have a lively room?

An all Marantz/NAD setup with LSi's may be a little too warm for some.

jmos

Face wrote: »

Do you have a lively room?

An all Marantz/NAD setup with LSi's may be a little too warm for some.

Thanks Face, I have heard that.
I am not sure if my room is lively or not, I guess do not have alot of listening experiences in differnet rooms and different equipment. I do find that if the cd's are not good quality the sound tends to be a bit muddled and bass can sound quite muffled. Apperently I have some accoustic issues with the room and am looking at some treatment. Perhaps I should try a brighter sounding stereo pre or intergrated amp ? What would you suggest.
SACD''s seem to sound faultless ?
I had one accoustic pro say this about my room
(Hi John,
First off the dimensions of that room and your seating position in it are terrible. The back row is even worse. You could not have picked much worse dimensions. The room will have an inherent boominess and the your seat is sitting in 5 standing wave peaks and 2 nulls. You also have 8 double freq problems which creates the room boominess. Bass traps are going to be critical, but are expensive to get products that actually work.

The first thing I would advise is to move the seating positions. The second is to move the subs and speakers. The third is to get rid of the leather idea for seating (these can be an acoustic treatment and leather is more expensive anyway

Sorry to be direct, but I just call it as I see it. Making some changes now will give you a chance of making the room sound good. Otherwise I can improve the room reverb and voice intelligibility, but the room will never sound right as the bass changes your perception of higher freq.

What in the room can you change? Have you considered curtains on the windows?

I don’t believe in just selling you panels when there are other things that will also improve the system. Once you have everything placed correctly, then I can place panels and advise on a system. I can’t believe none of these other companies have pointed this out)

reeltrouble1

OK seems you are getting information overload, I would relax and think about things, nevermind running willy-nilly changing this and that and so on, we have very experienced and helpful folks to see you through.

So then can we back up a bit?

You have an all LSi system--excellent.
You have an Onkyo receiver--OK does it have pre-out to hook to an amp?
What are the room dimensions??
Is this rig to run a seperate 2ch system inside a HT Rack? Percentages of music to movies?
What is your total budget--ok take that figure and double it--now what is your total budget?

RT1

jmos

Ha ha, yes its quite easy to get info overload especially when you buy some new toys and get on the world wide web of to much information.

I have purchased on a budget, we have just recently owner built our home so funds are not the healthiest.
I managed to purchase most of my equipment at half the retail cost, ex demo and superceded models. I broke the cardinal rule and purchased the Lsi's based on reviews and a great price, no one in Western Australia had them to listen to anyway.
The Onkyo 875 has Preouts which is connected to the Nad T973?
Ideally I would like to integrate a 2 channel amp with my Ht setup via the Onkyo 875 and Nad T973?, the only other way is too just have two separate systems and simply swap speaker cables, speaker switches apparently degrade the sound considerably.
Movies/music would be 50/50
Room dimensions are 20.7ft L x14.1ft W x9.8ft H (hope I converted correctly)
Budget Hmmmm, as mentioned I have been buying superceded and ex demo so budget would be approx $1500 to $2000, gotta confirm with the boss.
For eg: Cambridge Audio 840A retails for $2500 but I can get the v1 for $1390 and v2 for $1650
attached some pics, as you can see there are still a few things to complete

[IMG][/img]
[IMG][/img]
[IMG][/img]

reeltrouble1

excellent, you have a nice space to work with, your room is similiar to my Reel Time Theater, although your space is larger.

I would like you to clear your mind (for now) of inserting an integrated amp, what you need is a quality 2 ch pre-amp with an HT by-pass, the NAD amp works well with Polk Speakers, sure there are better, but for now your best bang for your dollar is a musical pre-amp. This will allow for a musical rig that does HT, each system will share the NAD amp. I would highly recommend a tubed pre for your rig, however, that is what I do, tubes rule as I frequently say. Your Onkyo is great for HT, but at 50/50 use it just does not do as well as a machine designed to reproduce music.

Gary Dodd at Dodd Audio has built some excellent tubed preamps with by-pass that would be perfect for you, but new they cost too much for your budget, sometimes they come up on Audiogon.com on the used market, our member treitz has one though I do not believe he wants to sell it, you can ask if you wish. Gary Dodd also built some entry tubed pre's called the ELP model, some have by-pass some not, all can be modded to have it however, they are only available on the used market.

OK, so other companies to research some solid state, some tubed are........NAD, B&K, Musical Fidelity, Anthem, Krell, Audio Research Corporation (ARC), Jolida, BAT, VTL, Odyssey, Cambridge and so on and on and on there are just so many out there, take your time and research a bit, I would not be afraid of the used gear, check our flea market.

Enjoy your rig, your off to great start. The other members can chime in with other suggestions and thoughts to help you along your way.

RT1

debussyj

Hi, I have limited space and a full LSI setup like you and I've got the SVS PC-12 NSD cylinder powered sub. I'm powering all of this with the Marantz SR-9600, which does 140 WPC. All I can tell you is the LSI15's like serious juice behind them and the more the better. My HT sound is great, but I'm more of a 2 channel person and it really shines nicely with this setup. I recently upgraded from the SR-9200, which has the same power rating but different DACS and less bells and whistles than the SR-9600. From a listening standpoint the 9600 is more articulate than the 9200, but both are really nice. I like the Marantz warmth always have. Considered the flagship NAD receiver, but couldn't get past it's looks. Good luck with your setup! DJ

jmos

I appreciate all your feedback, I will continue my search and have a look at any tube options that may pop up.
Cheers

jmos

Could one of these be a good option ?
Bel Canto PRe3 Pre-Amplifier

reeltrouble1

Bel-Canto is into hi-fi, I read reviews of their products which are quite good, award winning and such, I have never owned a Bel-Canto pre but it should certainly be a contender if it fits your need and budget, they build quality gear and are into high fidelity. As the LSi are considered by most to be a slightly laid back speaker a pre-amp considered neutral would seem to be in order, but such things are really a matter of taste.

As an example though of the high quality of the Polk speakers I can tell you that a few of us visited Matt Polk at his home (quite a place he has), it was his way of saying goodbye to the forum as he retired shortly thereafter, he was running Lsi 9 bookshelf on stands, the gear was a ARC tubed pre, a hi-end Marantz SACD, and two large Threshold Solid State amps, the sound was pretty awesome, your Lsi will carry you well into the future, feed the them the best audio signal you can.

RT1