Need SQ highs and mids for 2 SR124-DVCs

pushkanak

Hello,

I got two SR124-DVC, the Mb Quart DSC 1500.D amp to power them, and the Pioneer PRS800 head unit to augment SQ. And now, I'm trying to find the mid and high speakers to try to achieve the best possible SQ system together with those subs.

I've narrowed my search to the following 2 amp setups, depending on the highs and mids chosen:

1 amp JBL GTO1004 or
2 amps Focal Solid 4

Regarding the mids and highs speakers, I narrowed my search to the following final choices (all these are adjusted to my maximum available budget):

1 set polk SR6500 front stage
1 set Focal 165A1 for the trunk

1 set polk SR6500 front stage
1 pair Alpine SPS-600 for the trunk

1 set polk MMC6500 front stage
2 sets Focal 165A1 for the trunk

1 set polk MMC6500 front stage
2 pairs Alpine SPS-600 for the trunk

1 set polk MMC6500 front stage
1 set polk MMC6500 for the trunk

1 set polk MMC6500 front stage
1 pair mids powerbass 4XL-65-92 in the trunk
1 pair super tweeters powerbass S-1s in the trunk

1 set polk MMC6500 front stage
1 pair mids Eminence Beta-6a in the trunk
1 pair super tweeters Super Tweeter Jbl P26t in the trunk

1 set of focal 165 A1 front stage
1 set of focal 165 A1 rear doors
2 sets of focal 165 A1 for the trunk

Well, those are my possible choices available in the local market, and one of both amp setups should be chosen depending on the choice for mids and highs speakers.

Please remember that, while it seems that I can't pursue a pure SQ system having two subs at 1400 rms total, my main goal is to achieve the best possible sounding system with the two polk SR124-DVC subs and the PRS800 pioneer head unit(want more SQ than SPL), without any frequency range overpowering the other. Also, remember this is for a 2007 Jeep Liberty.

I will really appreciate your recommendations. Thanks.

MacLeod

If youre wanting the best possible SQ, forget about rear speakers. Spend as much money as you can on a quality pair of components for the front stage and bi-amp them off a good 4 channel amp. Take the money you wouldve spent on rear speakers and buy as much Dynamat Extreme that you can and apply it to your doors and anywhere else you can.

Systems

What Mac said. BUT, before you go and cut and mount the tweeters play with positioning of them first. High on the doors, on the A pillar and so on. Try and find the magic spot for them on axis or off axis. Use a little double sticky tape to temp them in a position for a listen. This may take a few days of playing around but well worth the effort. Forget the rear fill and spend the money on dynamat and better gear. Maybe a nice active crossover for the comps???

pushkanak

Yeah, but if I spend all my money in a set of superb front stage comps, I would end up with only one set of comp and 2 SR124-DVC subs. Wouldn't that be just too much bass then? Or is it possible to correctly install two set of comps in the front of a 2007 Jeep Liberty? (or what else might be done?)

That's what worries me. So some people have told me to sell one of the subs, and get one SR6500 and use the proceeds from the sub sale to quality installs and magnify SQ. But then, I don't think I would not be satisfied with only one sub, since I also want some decent SPL but with high quality good sound. So, you may tell that the pure SQ can't be achieved that way, and that's ok, I may also be happy with SQL (but more inclined to the SQ side than SPL).

So, what do you think is the best I can do in my situation? I'm open to suggestions.

Systems

One set of comps in the front. Go 2-way or 3-way. But you only need the front stage. You can have some decent SPL while still having SQ quality. Its called a bass knob.

pushkanak

**EDIT:**
I made a mistake in a phrase in my previous post: I actually would not be satisfied with only one sub.

That being said, 187CAM, will a single set of comp in the front like the SR6500, being totally powered to its 250 rms and correctly aimed, keep pace with the two SR124-DVC subs?

cadenceclipse

1 set of 6 1/2" SR components getting anywhere near 250 wrms will keep pace with any subs, at least any your thinking of..just as 1 12" SR will keep pace with the most demanding bass aplications. its a serious sub sounds like u have no idea what u'r getting urself in2. sure u'd b plenty satisfied with one sub but what the heck u already have em and seem pretty set, so do it, mount both, if worse comes to worse, which i can't imagine unless your porting them, u can always drop 1. just thought...specially in a JEEP...there gonna loud, real loud. u hook up the sr6500s the right way(installed correctly(dynamat, tweeter on axis), enough clean power(nice amp, hope u thought of alternator and batteries with that much power, bi-amped), tuned right, and possible processor(audiocontrol, bit1), u'll b fine.. focal solids r nice amps. srs could use more power but they will work just not as well specially using 2 ported srs. 2 of em won't help much either. eclipse xa4200 will work well($450). also cadence ia4($300, sale)

pushkanak

Thanks cadenceclipse, it's nice to know I can go with a set of SR6500 and with the 2 subs. Also, I unfortunately only have access to the JBL GTO1004 amp and the focal solids 4. With my budget, I can buy 1 of the former and two of the later. Which of both amp setups do you think is the best for powering the comps to their max potential and with the better sound quality?

arun1963

For build and sound quality both would be ok. Have'nt heard the focal but I've heard the JBL. I dont see how 2, 4ch amps would help. Assuming you bi-amped the 6500's of one amp, you would bridge the 2 subs (each sub at 2ohms) off the second amp. The spec sheet on the focals doesnt mention that the amp is stable at 2ohm. If you ran the subs at 4 ohms and then bridged them to the focal amp, each sub would get like 200watts. Way too less.

For the two Sr dvc's, you need a mono amp that would put out around 1200 watts @ 2ohm, so that each sub gets around 600watts. 800watts at 2ohm would be the bare min.

So you would need one 4ch amp and one mono block.....trying to think if there's a cheaper way to do this......

pushkanak

Thanks Arun1963, but it seems you have not read the whole thread. I will repeat the first fragment of my opening post:

I got two SR124-DVC, the Mb Quart DSC 1500.D amp to power them, and the Pioneer PRS800 head unit to augment SQ.

So, the question is which of either one JBL GTO1004 or two Focal SOlid 4 amps would better power only the set of comps.

cadenceclipse

can't use 2 solid 4s. whats jbl power specs? guessing 100x4 which srs would like a lot more than 75w. focal nice amp though. tough one, whats price difference? i vote cadence ia4..

pushkanak

cadenceclipse wrote: »

can't use 2 solid 4s. whats jbl power specs? guessing 100x4 which srs would like a lot more than 75w. focal nice amp though. tough one, whats price difference? i vote cadence ia4..

JBL's specs are
Power Output 100W RMS x 4 Channels at 4 Ohms; 150W RMS x 4 Channels at 2 Ohms; 320W RMS x 2 Channels at 4 Ohms

But the focal solid 4 has 75*4 rms @4 ohm. Can't I use 2 channels of the amp per side of comp? I mean, two channels from the focal solid 4 amp to power the right side of the comp for 150 rms total, and the same for the left side? Thus only one of this model amp would have more than plenty power for only a set of amp. I'm I right?

cadenceclipse

well yeah. u use 1 amp. 2 channels per side(150w per component, not driver). so yeah plenty. BUT u r the same dude talking bout 2 sr 12s. keep em sealed and 1 solid 4 will do srs justice. couldn't hurt 2 double check w/ mac between solid 4 and 2 sr 12s. though he only has 1 just figured with his experience. maybe some1 else 2. keep em sealed. hows ur electrical? up 2 par? w/ jeep shouldn't b 2 bad i imagine. ia4($250, 5 yr warranty)

pushkanak

Ok, if Mac doesn't post here I will pm him. But what did you mean exactly by 150w per component and not driver? I mean, the SR6500 has 125rms per side, being 250 rms total. I interpret this as the SR6500 having in one side a tweeter and a mid for 125 rms, and in the other side a tweeter and a mid for an additional 125 rms. So I would connect one mid and one tweeter to two channels from the Focal Solid 4. The same goes for the second tweeter and mid. So I would be sending a total of 150 rms on a mid and tweeter, which require 125 rms, and the same goes for the second mid and tweeter. This would mean that I got plenty of power with a single Focal Solid 4 amp.

I'm I correct?

cadenceclipse

sr peak is 250 PER SIDE. so 150 will work.
357

pushkanak

Yes, but I was talking in terms of rms only, not of peak watts. The SR6500 has 125 rms per side, while the amp delivers 75 rms per channel, for a total of 150 rms per pair of channels.

So I could use a pair of channels to power one side of the comp, and the second pair of channels to power the second side of the comp.

And since 150 rms > 125rms, the amp is well suited to move the SR6500. Is this Correct?

cadenceclipse

yes.

arun1963

but it seems you have not read the whole thread. I will repeat the first fragment of my opening post:

True and sorry I should have picked that.

I mean, the SR6500 has 125rms per side, being 250 rms total.

Thats correct. You should power the speakers close or just beyond their rms value. 125 watts in this case.

To run your components, you would only need one 4ch amp. Bi-amp the sr's over the 4ch's. That is connect each driver (2 mid, 2 tweets) to an independent amp channel. Set your network from the p-800, remove the xovers from the path and go active.

75 watts per driver, from the focal amp would be fine. While the jbl puts out 100watts per ch and is a decent amp, I think I remembe it now as a slightly brightish amp. I dont know how much you're getting the focal for but you could also look at the polk 500.4.

cadenceclipse

yeah toss up btween focal and polk(and ia4). u said u can't get polk?

dirthog

I spoke with Polk and they recommended 150rms for a mid and 75rms for a tweeter when active.

I used my crossover to set the tweeter to the highest gain. The tweeter protection fuse will start to glow and you know you're pushing the crossover to the limits. Match the mids to the tweeters once you have the tweeters set. Maybe not the best way to do it but it works.

I believe the crossover limits the tweeter too much, in turn limiting the mids, but how can you argue with protecting these babies.

cadenceclipse

word so how bout 90w from pa 500.4? keep gains down? or think 75w might treat it(tweeter) better? :rolleyes: :eek:HAHA MAC, LOOK OUT!! :eek: lol kidding of course:D

pushkanak

Wow I initially was thinking that bi amping the SR6500 to a focal solid 4 would be too much, since I would be sending 75 rms to each driver, while each side from the SR6500 is supposed to take 125 rms (62.5 rms each driver, or am I too wrong)

But now dirthog reveals that a mid can take 150 rms power and a single tweeter 75 rms. I think I can't do this with a single focal solid 4, but maybe with 2? What if get two of those amps, and use one amp for powering each side of the comp set? Is this logical?

I'm trying to do my best with all the information possible.

I don't think I can't get the pa500.4, but what difference would it make? The JBL GTO1004 has more power, and I can't get that one cheaper. And the Focal solid 4 is half the price to JBL's here.

cadenceclipse

no not 62.5 each. woffers almost always want more power than tweets(least any i've heard of). though their peak is 250 not 225 so 25w seems to b missing. i would have thought closer to 150(woofer) and 100(tweeter) guess i was close. your rite u can't do that, only 75 each. and u can't use 2 not logivcal. ask mac what difference it would make. 4get about jbl specially since we just found out tweeters want 75, not 100. granted mac and 500.4=90w. solid 4 or ia4 sounds like best bet 2 me. personally i go ia4. where u located?

pushkanak

cadenceclipse wrote: »

no not 62.5 each. woffers almost always want more power than tweets(least any i've heard of). though their peak is 250 not 225 so 25w seems to b missing. i would have thought closer to 150(woofer) and 100(tweeter) guess i was close. your rite u can't do that, only 75 each. and u can't use 2 not logivcal. ask mac what difference it would make. 4get about jbl specially since we just found out tweeters want 75, not 100. granted mac and 500.4=90w. solid 4 or ia4 sounds like best bet 2 me. personally i go ia4. where u located?

A tweeter wants 75 rms, but a mid wants 150 rms, so how can I compensate for the missing power to the mids? With a Focal Solid 4 I can't do this since they send 75 rms per channel.. but the JBL sends 100 rms per channel..

cadenceclipse

exactly. u get solid 4(or any amp w/ 75x4) and 2 channel for mids(150x2). use extra 2 channels (from 4 channel) bridged to 8 inch sub, like me:D OR like some here like mac u can get pa 500.4 and have 90 per channel which seems 2 work pretty well..OR get 2 seperate 2 channel amps 75x 2 and 150x2 OR get sumpin like that JL amp that does sumpin like 75x2 plus 150x2.. yeah slash version 2 450/4v2. 150x2 plus 75x2. some1s lookin out 4 u. and its only $850

pushkanak

Can't I just get 2 focal solid 4 amps and do the following:

connect the 1st 2 channels from amp #1 for mid #1 , for a total of 150 rms
connect the rest 2 channels from amp #1 for mid #2 , for a total of 150 rms
connect the 1st channel from amp #2 for tweeter #1 , for a total of 75 rms
connect the 2nd channel from amp #2 for tweeter #2 , for a total of 75 rms
Amp #2 would then be left with 2 free channels.

What about that?

pushkanak

I could find availability for the pa500.4 for roughly the same price as the JBL GTO1004, but I can buy only one unit of that polk amp.

So, it would be between the polk amp and the two focal solids 4 with the setup I just described in my post #26 (if that setup is possible feasible of course), though I think the setup with the two focals solid 4 amps would be better since they could send more power.

What do you think?

cadenceclipse

not what i think, what i know is u can't do 2 focals. how do u connect 2 channels to one mid? beyond my thinking..u can bridge but with only one voice coil speaker would still see only 75w. so like i said u can get 1 solid 4 and a 2 channel for mids and have 2 channels from solid 4 not in use which makes about no sense or get 2 2channel amps(one amp 75x2 and the other 150x2) or just get the polk500.4 jus like i said or that JL reread post 25!

pushkanak

pa500.4's frequency response is capped at 20khz. Wouldn't that be limiting the SR6500's upper frequency range potential?

cadenceclipse

come on man now ur taking this a bit 2 far. granted that does sound low for a quality amp, how old r u?? chances u can't hear that high anyway. what r u still deciding on? huh? between polk, focal and what. thought u can't get the polk or something..focals better amp. polk more power better for mids. i say go w/ focal. any more quewstions?

pushkanak

Well you're kind of right, sometimes I exceed too much when taking decisions..

A local provider of polks told me I was lucky enough and he can sell me one pa500.4. So I must choose between that one, the JBL and the focal. Unfortunately, I don't have available any 2 channel amp for 150 rms x 2. I think the focal is eliminated since it can only send 75 x 4.

So it would be between pa500.4 and JBL GTO1004. The bias here seems to be in favor of the polk. So, to stop bothering you all too much on the same topic, I will take my choice with all the info received so far in this thread, and then I will post back to inform which was my final choice.