Oh yeah, a 230 mpg car set for late 2010 release

Polkersince85

You may want to price the replacement batteries before you buy an electric. Just a heads up. I'm going to buy up used pickup trucks and rent them out when the sparkheads want to haul something.;)

McLoki

Keep in mind that when you are running the gas engine - you may not really be running a car engine. I envision more a big honda (or GM) generator to produce the power needed to keep the electric motor running and trickle charge the batteries.

Michael

comfortablycurt

McLoki wrote: »

Keep in mind that when you are running the gas engine - you may not really be running a car engine. I envision more a big honda (or GM) generator to produce the power needed to keep the electric motor running and trickle charge the batteries.

Michael

That's how it works. The engine doesn't actually drive the wheels...it's sole purpose is to keep the batteries charged. I'm not sure of the engine size or anything...but it's small. The engine also runs at a constant RPM at all times...it doesn't rise or fall. That's a big part of how it gets such high efficiency.

LessisNevermore

comfortablycurt wrote: »

That's how it works. The engine doesn't actually drive the wheels...it's sole purpose is to keep the batteries charged. I'm not sure of the engine size or anything...but it's small. The engine also runs at a constant RPM at all times...it doesn't rise or fall. That's a big part of how it gets such high efficiency.

It's the same technology used in GE's locomotives. A diesel (on the trains) engine driving a generator.

Polkersince85

IMO, I think Japan or China will flood the market with better, less expensive units and GM will tank again or ask for more bailout. They haven't changed their ways.

comfortablycurt

LessisNevermore wrote: »

It's the same technology used in GE's locomotives. A diesel (on the trains) engine driving a generator.

Pretty much. My dad used to work at Electromotive building those engines actually.

obieone

LessisNevermore wrote: »

It's the same technology used in GE's locomotives. A diesel (on the trains) engine driving a generator.

IF this is the way the powertrain is laid out, then it is most definately NOT new technology. It's the same layout as the diesel-electric subs in WWII:rolleyes:

comfortablycurt

obieone wrote: »

IF this is the way the powertrain is laid out, then it is most definately NOT new technology. It's the same layout as the diesel-electric subs in WWII:rolleyes:

No...this technology has been around for a long long time...but it's fairly new as far as automobiles go. Sure, it should have been implemented years and years ago...but unfortunately, the greedy oil companies are very capable of swaying the thoughts of the automotive industry and governmental agencies.

It's good to see things like this finally being utilized.

KrazyMofo24

According to this article the 230MPG is a bit misleading...

http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2009/08/the_chevy_volt_gets_230_mpg_on.php

jon s

Car and Driver had an interesting writeup on the Volt... It has a 149HP electric motor. The 16kWh lithium ion batteries weighs 400 lbs and costs $16,000. Expect it to take eight hours to charge using a 110V line, three hours on a 240V line.

the 1.4L 4-cyl ICE is used to charge the batteries once exhausted. At the rate of charge, the electric motor power drops to 100HP. And to maintain the 100HP, the ICE must run at 6000RPM.

My biggest worry is that lithion ion batteries do not last as long as NiMH batteries, also lithium batteries are unreliable, just look at all the recalled laptop and MP3 player batteries...

Kex

Polkersince85 wrote: »

IMO, I think Japan or China will flood the market with better, less expensive units and GM will tank again or ask for more bailout. They haven't changed their ways.

I don't think I really share that concern. After all, the Prius looks like cr@p IMHO, as did the Honda Insight thing, or whatever they were called. Apparently, the Prius may not even make any money for Toyota, either, despite it's success. The Volt, on the other hand, looks very sexy IMO ... I'd be more worried about the interior fit and finish, personally, and whether or not enough people will be prepared to pay 40K for it, not Japan or China.

jon s wrote: »

... the 1.4L 4-cyl ICE is used to charge the batteries once exhausted. At the rate of charge, the electric motor power drops to 100HP. And to maintain the 100HP, the ICE must run at 6000RPM. ...

Maybe they should be putting a little 1.4L four cylinder diesel in there, and make use of the increased torque to run at lower RPM, not to mention added economy for greater autonomy.

All in all, I'm still impressed that GM is trying to make this work, and I wish them every success with it.

Jeff Beaird

Boy, that GM Volt looks impressive...
only problem is ... no batteries:eek: they lack the technology to build the batteries to create the power for the car in the confines of the interior. HA HA..!
GM is betting they( meaning LG chem from Korea) will have the technology by 2010 with their new battery plant up and running.
typical GM, it's all blow
if you don't believe me, try to find a picture of the batteries. Google it..!

O.K. take your shots Big boys

Shizelbs

POIDOG wrote: »

3) Government goal is to have 1,000,000 on the road by 2015;) what effect will this have on on the electric grid in this country

IMHO, while this is a good direction, long term viability is still open ended

I'm no electrical engineer or anything close, but I agree, all this shifted energy demand from fuel to electricity is concerning. I doubt its close to a free lunch.

Jstas

Shizelbs wrote: »

I'm no electrical engineer or anything close, but I agree, all this shifted energy demand from fuel to electricity is concerning. I doubt its close to a free lunch.

Exactly. Electric cars are nice but the electricity comes from somewhere and that somewhere is power plants.

But the thing is that everybody is jumping on the electric car bandwagon because it gets those nasty cars off the road. Truth be told, the modern automobile is not the main source of pollution. It's not even the main source of oil consumption. Pollution as well as oil consumption, in the majority, comes from other, industrial sources like power generation, plastics manufacturing and even air travel. Cars are cleaner than they have ever been. Getting the gas powered cars off the road is not going to be the ecological boon that all the greenies want you to believe nor will it reduce dependence on foreign oil all that much.

The greenies should stop worrying about the cars for a while and go worry about the power plants and the manufacturing plants and the metal smelters and get them to clean up their act too. But electric cars, in the long run, produce more pollution in both manufacturing and running than a comparable gas vehicle. Mainly because of where the power generation comes from and how the exotic and toxic metals in the batteries are smelted. A plug-in electric car draws power from the grid likely coming from a power plant fired by oil or coal and spewing all kinds of junk in to the air. A gas powered car generates it's own power from it's own fuel source and it's by products have been regulated out the wazoo to the point where the nastiest stuff coming out of the exhaust pipe is the carbon monoxide emissions.

Jeff Beaird

Jstas wrote: »

Exactly. Electric cars are nice but the electricity comes from somewhere and that somewhere is power plants.

But the thing is that everybody is jumping on the electric car bandwagon because it gets those nasty cars off the road. Truth be told, the modern automobile is not the main source of pollution. It's not even the main source of oil consumption. Pollution as well as oil consumption, in the majority, comes from other, industrial sources like power generation, plastics manufacturing and even air travel. Cars are cleaner than they have ever been. Getting the gas powered cars off the road is not going to be the ecological boon that all the greenies want you to believe nor will it reduce dependence on foreign oil all that much.

The greenies should stop worrying about the cars for a while and go worry about the power plants and the manufacturing plants and the metal smelters and get them to clean up their act too. But electric cars, in the long run, produce more pollution in both manufacturing and running than a comparable gas vehicle. Mainly because of where the power generation comes from and how the exotic and toxic metals in the batteries are smelted. A plug-in electric car draws power from the grid likely coming from a power plant fired by oil or coal and spewing all kinds of junk in to the air. A gas powered car generates it's own power from it's own fuel source and it's by products have been regulated out the wazoo to the point where the nastiest stuff coming out of the exhaust pipe is the carbon monoxide emissions.

Amen Brother..!

bobman1235

The power plant argument doesn't necessarily hold water. While I agree that the "greenies" would be better served trying to get cleaner power plants and fixing industrial pollution, when it comes to individual vehicles the economies of scale come into play with regards to power creation. A power plant is able to make so much power that, while on the whole it is polluting, per unit of energy it is polluting much less than an individual internal combustion engine would be polluting to create the same amount of power.

I'm not trying to defend any whacko greenies here but pointing to a smokestack on a power plant and saying 'well that's polluting too' isn't entirely accurate.

tcrossma

Jstas wrote: »

Exactly. Electric cars are nice but the electricity comes from somewhere and that somewhere is power plants.

But the thing is that everybody is jumping on the electric car bandwagon because it gets those nasty cars off the road. Truth be told, the modern automobile is not the main source of pollution. It's not even the main source of oil consumption. Pollution as well as oil consumption, in the majority, comes from other, industrial sources like power generation, plastics manufacturing and even air travel. Cars are cleaner than they have ever been. Getting the gas powered cars off the road is not going to be the ecological boon that all the greenies want you to believe nor will it reduce dependence on foreign oil all that much.

The greenies should stop worrying about the cars for a while and go worry about the power plants and the manufacturing plants and the metal smelters and get them to clean up their act too. But electric cars, in the long run, produce more pollution in both manufacturing and running than a comparable gas vehicle. Mainly because of where the power generation comes from and how the exotic and toxic metals in the batteries are smelted. A plug-in electric car draws power from the grid likely coming from a power plant fired by oil or coal and spewing all kinds of junk in to the air. A gas powered car generates it's own power from it's own fuel source and it's by products have been regulated out the wazoo to the point where the nastiest stuff coming out of the exhaust pipe is the carbon monoxide emissions.

I tend to agree with this. But in the long run, if we can get the cars to where they are not producing any sizable emissions you can then start targeting a few hundred (thousand?) power plants to make them cleaner and more efficient, or convert those plants to a cleaner method. To me the problem seems more manageable when it's a relatively small number of power plants vs. a couple hundred million individual cars.

Plus, any improvements in the efficiency and emissions of the power plants will be instantly realized in all the electric cars currently in use, instead of waiting years for users to trade in their cars for more efficient models.

I think it's a step in the right direction at least, if not entirely the answer.

apphd

bobman1235 wrote: »

The power plant argument doesn't necessarily hold water. While I agree that the "greenies" would be better served trying to get cleaner power plants and fixing industrial pollution, when it comes to individual vehicles the economies of scale come into play with regards to power creation. A power plant is able to make so much power that, while on the whole it is polluting, per unit of energy it is polluting much less than an individual internal combustion engine would be polluting to create the same amount of power.

I'm not trying to defend any whacko greenies here but pointing to a smokestack on a power plant and saying 'well that's polluting too' isn't entirely accurate.

I agree about the power/pollution ratio. But not only from a pollution aspect what would this added draw put on the power grid. It is already woefully in need of a major overhaul just to keep up with our current electric use. Can you imagine if half of the autos on the road were electric (I know this isn't going to happen over night) But do you think the energy companies or Uncle Sam is going to invest a dime into improving the power grid until it is broken so bad that politicians start loosing votes.

I think we need to go this way, and it's a start, but we are a long ways from making it really work for the mainstream.

exalted512

I think the power grid will be fine. Most of the time youre going to charge your car at night, and car's like the Volt even can be set to charge at a certain time....so get home after work at 5:15, plug it in, but it wont start charging until 1am.

And like you said, this isnt going to happen over night...and when the need does come, I'm sure our power grid will have improved by then.
-Cody

nadams

Maybe with all these e-cars we're going to have running around, they'll become more interested in finding a place to put our nuclear waste, so that we can have clean, efficient power replace our crappy old coal-fired plants.

The local nuke plant has been approved for a third reactor, but not until they have a known plan for removing their spent fuel from the site. As it is right now, they've got a big concrete bunker they store it in on-site, because there's nowhere left to ship it to.

audiobliss

exalted512 wrote: »

so get home after work at 5:15, plug it in, but it wont start charging until 1am

I don't like that plan, and I'm sure many other consumers won't, either. Draining your battery driving to and back from work, plug it in when you get home, but it won't be charged up again until tomorrow morning? That leaves a lot of time for not being able to run errands or running out for an emergency. And I realize it would still be drivable at that point even though not charged up, but that defeats the purpose of having the vehicle, and I'm sure many people would go ahead and charge it as soon as they got home for any further excursions that evening.

Jstas

You really want a car that will work and leave pretty much zero negative impact on the environment in operation and minimal in construction? Hydrogen-electric drive. Hydrogen fuel cells that power a generator to supply the electric drive system with the power it needs to operate. Hydrogen's only byproduct from combustion is water. The biggest issue is making a fuel cell that is easily and inexpensively recharged.

Until then, a direct injection diesel-electric drive would be the next best thing. Forget plug-in electric cars and gasoline hybrids. They are just gimmicks and unsustainable technology.

dkg999

The utility companies are already engaging with companies that can analyze and segment their customer bases and overall service footprint to identify potential adopters of electric vehicles and how that alters their demand forecasts. This information then becomes the basis for surcharges for charging your electric vehicle and increased customer charges for the infrastructure and power plants to support the demand. Something tells me it probably becomes a zero gain overall at that point for electric vehicles that rely on the current power grid to charge.

exalted512

audiobliss wrote: »

I don't like that plan, and I'm sure many other consumers won't, either. Draining your battery driving to and back from work, plug it in when you get home, but it won't be charged up again until tomorrow morning? That leaves a lot of time for not being able to run errands or running out for an emergency. And I realize it would still be drivable at that point even though not charged up, but that defeats the purpose of having the vehicle, and I'm sure many people would go ahead and charge it as soon as they got home for any further excursions that evening.

You can still run the volt on gas, so you wont be stranded at home in an emergency. and if you knew you were going to the grocery store, you can certainly charge it.
-Cody

concealer404

Here's an idea:

How about Government Motors prices a vehicle like this so more people can afford it? It's the people that can't afford this thing (myself included) that are driving the crap dumpsters that are the "evil polluters" of the automotive world. Soooo..... what the hell is the point of pricing this thing at $40k so the people already driving newer clean vehicles can get one and reduce the environmental impact by approximately.... nothing?

Just sayin'. I mean... i'm no expert or anything.

And from the other point of view, if i was REALLY worried about the gas mileage, then why don't i buy a CRX and get 40+mpg all the time, and an initial investment of 5% of what the Volt costs. How long will it take for the Volt's "superior" mpg to make up and pay for the difference?

This crap is stupid.