F-22
Comments
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If the dem's are pushing a piece that the DoD doesn't wasnt, it's probably for jobs in a blue state
Gates doesn't want them. Air Force does want them.engtaz
I love how music can brighten up a bad day. -
If the Senate's action is sustained in the House-Senate conference version of the bill, F-22 production would cease at 187 planes.
Aeronautical High End .... -
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If the Senate's action is sustained in the House-Senate conference version of the bill, F-22 production would cease at 187 planes.
Aeronautical High End ....
What a waste. Maybe we should replace the M4 with muzzleloaders and troop carriers with horse and buggies. We could install some sails on our aircraft carriers!!!
WesLink: http://polkarmy.com/forums
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the newer generation will be better.....
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the newer generation will be better.....
Newer generation of what? The F-15? The F-22 is the newer generation.
WesLink: http://polkarmy.com/forums
Panasonic TH-42PHD8UK 42" HDTV | Polk Audio SDA-SRS's (w/RDO's & Vampire Posts) + SVS PC+ 25-31 | AudioQuest Granite (mids) + BWA Silver (highs) | Cary Audio CAD-200 | Signal Cable Silver Resolution XLR's | Wyred 4 Sound STP/SE Pre | Signal Cable Silver Resolution XLR's | Cambridge Audio azur 840C--Wadia 170i + iPod jammed w/ lossless audio--Oppo 970 | Pure|AV PF31d -
F-22 planned service life of 20 years, 8,000 flight hours.Newer generation of what? The F-15? The F-22 is the newer generation.
Wes
Fatigue testing to simulate two lifetimes of fatigue evaluation, 16,000 flight hours.
meant to say next generation after the 20 or so years... -
Newer generation of what? The F-15? The F-22 is the newer generation.
Wes
F35 is the latest gen, and that is where the money is going.
This "debate" reminds me of when Carter killed the B1 bomber program because the B2 was better. Then Reagan comes along and revives the B1 because of the jobs in CA, not because it was needed. Now we have the B1, which is a plane in search of a mission, and we can't get B2s because of all the money wasted on the B1.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
Kinda a mixed bag for me.
The F22 vs F35 is not a valid comparison as the F22 is supposed to be the air superiority replacement for the F15 and the F35 is a strike 'fighter' to replace older F/A-18 A models.
The F35 should have been designated as the F/A-35 - as a fight your way in, drop the boomers, and get out.
The F22 is in production, the F35 is not and is behind schedule and likely to overrun as well.
Seems like there is a political money shell game to divert money to pump up the F35 program.
If I was a fighter pilot (my dad was, flew the F86 in the Korean 'conflict') - I'd want THE best for my role. If I'm flying air superiority roles to gain supremacy of an air space (so the strike guys can come in to do ground clean up) then I want the F22.
Put the F22 up against the F35 in a head to head 'dogfight' - I'd put money on the F22.
Why give a driver a mini if you want him to crush the competition? Give him an F1!
I understand the need to question the budgetary needs to buy even more F22s (aren't there 200 in service now anyway?), but saying the F35 can 'replace' the F22 seems like comparing apples to oranges.
fwiw...
H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music. -
I would be much more concerned with.....
F-22 versus Mikoyan Project 1.44/1.42
F-22 versus Sukhoi/HAL FGFA -
F35 is in production and air force already has some.engtaz
I love how music can brighten up a bad day. -
F35 is in production and air force already has some.
My bad, then.
I thought I read that the Marines would have the first operational squadrons in 2010, then Air Force in 2011, then USN in 2012.....????
F22 went to FOC at Langley 12/12/07
fwiw....
H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music. -
I come from a long line of pilots and aerospace industry workers. My grandfather was a pilot, my dad was a crew chief in the air force, two of my cousins are current F-15 pilots today. I have several uncles and cousins who also work in the aerospace industry ( and not for Lockheed building the F-22, but Genral Dynamics and Boieng working on the F-35). I was also working at Tyndall AFB when the F-22 was being put up in mock combat trials against F-15s, F-16s, and several other NATO frontline fightes like the RAF and German Luftwaffe's Torndo F-1. My point is I have been immersed in milatary aricraft since I was a baby. Erik Tracy is right, comparing the F-22 to an F-35 is comparing apples to oranges. The F-22 is designed to be an "air dominance" fighter as opposed to an "air superiority fighter" like the F-15. THe F-35 is designed to be a fighter-bomber. I had a chance to speak with some of the pilots who were performing the air trials against other aircraft at Tyndall. They all said without hesitation that the F-22 outperformed every U.S. and NATO fighter it went up agianst in every concievable fashion. Several of them told me "it was even close to being fair." THe F-22 will soundly defeat an F-35 in aerial combat hands down, no comparison.
JVC is also spot on. We have to produce aircraft like the F-22 because of the capabilities of the new Sukhois and Migs that are being produced. The new generation of Soviet fighters are top notch dog fighters that will give F-15s all they can handle and even outclass the F-15s in terms of rate of climb and agility. We have to have aircraft like the F-22 because we can't fall behind any potential enemy that may be on the horizon. The Russians may be somewhat friendly now, but don't count on that forever. Russia has always had no problem selling their first line equipment to the highest bidder. THe same is true of France and France has developed a formadible aircraft in the Rafeal. The Chinese are also closing the technological gap. I'm not saying we need to build thousands of F-22s because we don't. But we do need a fleet of them that is sizable enough to defend ALL of our airspace and be a potential deterrent to any current or potential air threat in the next twenty years. -
I come from a long line of pilots and aerospace industry workers. My grandfather was a pilot, my dad was a crew chief in the air force, two of my cousins are current F-15 pilots today. I have several uncles and cousins who also work in the aerospace industry ( and not for Lockheed building the F-22, but Genral Dynamics and Boieng working on the F-35). I was also working at Tyndall AFB when the F-22 was being put up in mock combat trials against F-15s, F-16s, and several other NATO frontline fightes like the RAF and German Luftwaffe's Torndo F-1. My point is I have been immersed in milatary aricraft since I was a baby. Erik Tracy is right, comparing the F-22 to an F-35 is comparing apples to oranges. The F-22 is designed to be an "air dominance" fighter as opposed to an "air superiority fighter" like the F-15. THe F-35 is designed to be a fighter-bomber. I had a chance to speak with some of the pilots who were performing the air trials against other aircraft at Tyndall. They all said without hesitation that the F-22 outperformed every U.S. and NATO fighter it went up agianst in every concievable fashion. Several of them told me "it was even close to being fair." THe F-22 will soundly defeat an F-35 in aerial combat hands down, no comparison.
JVC is also spot on. We have to produce aircraft like the F-22 because of the capabilities of the new Sukhois and Migs that are being produced. The new generation of Soviet fighters are top notch dog fighters that will give F-15s all they can handle and even outclass the F-15s in terms of rate of climb and agility. We have to have aircraft like the F-22 because we can't fall behind any potential enemy that may be on the horizon. The Russians may be somewhat friendly now, but don't count on that forever. Russia has always had no problem selling their first line equipment to the highest bidder. THe same is true of France and France has developed a formadible aircraft in the Rafeal. The Chinese are also closing the technological gap. I'm not saying we need to build thousands of F-22s because we don't. But we do need a fleet of them that is sizable enough to defend ALL of our airspace and be a potential deterrent to any current or potential air threat in the next twenty years.
Another thing to consider is that if the role of the F-22 diminishes to the point of not being our premier front line air superiority (dominance) fighter and that we rely more on the F-35...over time knowledge of the F-22's technology is going to get into the hands of the Chinese and Russian's (it always does.....) and we'll find ourselves up against a variant of the F-22 with our F-35s.
H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music. -
They should keep the F-22. i'm strongly support for F22
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JVC is also spot on. We have to produce aircraft like the F-22 because of the capabilities of the new Sukhois and Migs that are being produced. The new generation of Soviet fighters are top notch dog fighters that will give F-15s all they can handle and even outclass the F-15s in terms of rate of climb and agility. We have to have aircraft like the F-22 because we can't fall behind any potential enemy that may be on the horizon. The Russians may be somewhat friendly now, but don't count on that forever. Russia has always had no problem selling their first line equipment to the highest bidder. THe same is true of France and France has developed a formadible aircraft in the Rafeal. The Chinese are also closing the technological gap. I'm not saying we need to build thousands of F-22s because we don't. But we do need a fleet of them that is sizable enough to defend ALL of our airspace and be a potential deterrent to any current or potential air threat in the next twenty years.
Dogfish,
I read jvc's comments to be pretty anti-F-22. If we kill the F-22, what fills the gap between the F-15 and the "next generation" (even though the F-22 IS the next generation)?
Don't say F-35 since we already know it's not an air superiority fighter.
WesLink: http://polkarmy.com/forums
Panasonic TH-42PHD8UK 42" HDTV | Polk Audio SDA-SRS's (w/RDO's & Vampire Posts) + SVS PC+ 25-31 | AudioQuest Granite (mids) + BWA Silver (highs) | Cary Audio CAD-200 | Signal Cable Silver Resolution XLR's | Wyred 4 Sound STP/SE Pre | Signal Cable Silver Resolution XLR's | Cambridge Audio azur 840C--Wadia 170i + iPod jammed w/ lossless audio--Oppo 970 | Pure|AV PF31d -
Monkeys flew out of my butt at mach 6.
Top that! -
Dogfish,
I read jvc's comments to be pretty anti-F-22. If we kill the F-22, what fills the gap between the F-15 and the "next generation" (even though the F-22 IS the next generation)?
Don't say F-35 since we already know it's not an air superiority fighter.
Wes
Wes, ok gothcha after re-reading the entire thread, JVC does seem to be supporting the F-35 over the F-22 even though they serve different roles.
The part I was agreeing with JVC with was
" I would be much more concerned with.....
F-22 versus Mikoyan Project 1.44/1.42
F-22 versus Sukhoi/HAL FGFA."
I interpreted that to mean the Russians are continuing to move forward in their deveolpement of first-rate combat fighters and that we need aircraft with the capabilities of the F-22 to make sure we can counter any potential threat by aircraft in the next 20 years.
I agree with you I-Sig, we need the F-22 to fill precisely the role you are talking about with the F-15s aging like they are. The F-22 is the only real answer to that role, and it's a good, albeit expensive answer at that. -
I believe we must maintain and dominate AIR SUPERIORITY
over any threat - Current or Future
and to be superior in C4ISR. C2BMC,CBRN, etc.....
the F-22, F-16, F-15, F-35 (CTOL,CV,STOVL) and many many others are phenomenal special design purposed airframes with varying weapon payloads.
I would be more interested with the combat comparisons between
friendly forces and unfriendly forces (whoever that may be).
I support the F-22 but even More... I support the MILITARY Men and Women that are the true professionals and to give them whatever they need to be safe and victorious. -
I believe we must maintain and dominate AIR SUPERIORITY
over any threat - Current or Future
and to be superior in C4ISR. C2BMC,CBRN, etc.....
the F-22, F-16, F-15, F-35 (CTOL,CV,STOVL) and many many others are phenomenal special design purposed airframes with varying weapon payloads.
I would be more interested with the combat comparisons between
friendly forces and unfriendly forces (whoever that may be).
I support the F-22 but even More... I support the MILITARY Men and Women that are the true professionals and to give them whatever they need to be safe and victorious.
JVC,
Here, here. Well said. I tip of the cap to you.
Steve
