F-22

AudioGenics

The Senate to vote –
whether to spend $1.8 billion on the construction of seven F-22 fighter jets.

PhantomOG

... that the Pentagon and DoD don't want/need. :rolleyes:

Can't wait for Congress to start making my health related decisions for me as well.

2 pages? I'm guessing about 5 before its shut down.

bobman1235

I gotta wonder if fighter jets are all that effective in modern warfare. It seems like trhe types of situations we're in nowadays don't really benefit from that type of armament... but I guess I don't know.

markmarc

This reminds me of the decision to kill the B1-B, because the Stealth bomber was coming up. This time we have the F-22 and on it's heels the F-35.

AudioGenics

WOW... F-35 !

http://www.jsf.mil/

AudioGenics

pictures of the X-35a and X-32a

jjwm27

the F-35 is no match for the F-22

AudioGenics

JSF logo... high resolution

Barefoot

Good. It was porkbarrel procurement to begin with. The F-22 Raptor costs more than 3x in maintenance compared to the model it replaced. It also requires 34 hours of maintenance for every one hour of flight time -- that hour costing tax payers $44,000. That's totally insane and completely unjustified if you're a true fiscal conservative. Granted the F-22 is a bad ****, but so is an H1. I don't want to swallow the maintenance costs on either. Even Robert Gates doesn't want the damn thing. It's electrical system and radar absorbant materials are totally sub-standard for what today's Air Force requirements are. The only ones making the argument for it are Lockheed Martin (surprise) and #1 foam finger waving wingnuts who probably don't know the first thing about fighter aircrafts outside of watching Ice Man in Top Gun.

Knucklehead

Im sure our tax money is working on stuff we may never hear about or get to see.

http://www.popsci.com/military-aviation-space/gallery/2006-09/new-secrets-area-51

POIDOG

Barefoot wrote: »

Good. It was porkbarrel procurement to begin with.

I'm not cetain about it's pork barrel status However it is a 20th Century design, which was put on the drawing board back in the late 70's early 80's. Lockheed is complaining because of it's investment and workforce issues. The 35 is considered better suited for 21st Century Wars, plus it's an all for one military model. The F-22 was stricltly AF spec and will fleet out at about 187. The maintenance line will continue for years.The 35 will also replace aging F15's and A10's. I guess my point is, pork barrel not really. Believe what you may but it's all political BS:eek:

Barefoot

POIDOG wrote: »

I'm not cetain about it's pork barrel status

It's pork barrel chief.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2009/07/21/kathleen-kt-mcfarland-raptor-f/
http://blog.psaonline.org/2009/07/21/giving-us-that-old-time-military-industrial-congressional-pork-barrel/

potee

tHE F16 HAS ALWAYS BEEN A BETTER FIGHTER THAN F15. AND IS NOT THAT HARD TO MAINTAIN. IT'LL BE AROUND FOR A LONG TIME.

cnh

OK the cost is great...but what capabilities do these aircraft have, or will they, over previous models?

cnh

engtaz

It all comes to jobs kept or lost.

POIDOG

Barefoot wrote: »

It's pork barrel chief.

Nice try, but your sources are commentary (not a problem for me), the Raptor will be around for a long time, just in a more limited basis as opposed to the plan that's been in place for 30+ years. Like I said, it's political talk to make us think the government has our back

ND13

potee wrote: »

tHE F16 HAS ALWAYS BEEN A BETTER FIGHTER THAN F15. AND IS NOT THAT HARD TO MAINTAIN. IT'LL BE AROUND FOR A LONG TIME.

That's a matter of opinion.

The 15 is faster and the 16 can only beat it in a dogfight.

Both are great planes, though.

I'll take the "ancient" F-111 swept-wing fight/bomber over either.

engtaz

sounds like LM and Boeing fight to me. LOL

NJPOLKER

Sounds like another bad decision by a group of so called people who are clueless.

AudioGenics

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
eisenhower 1961

I-SIG

If one of the outside walls of your house fell down one, wouldn't you fix it? Not replacing the F-15 is equivalent to not fixing that wall.

The F-15 fleet is starting to literally fall apart. Hundreds have been grounded due to dangerous structural failings, i.e. planes literally falling out of the sky. Canceling funding for the F-22 when we we have to depend on the Canadians to patrol Alaska and other areas makes about ZERO sense.

Some argue for the F-35 just because a bunch of other countries want it. The facts are simply that at best, the F-35 is only semi-stealth. Starting adding external weaponry and fuel tanks and you might as well keep using the Super Hornet. The F-22 carries all weapons and fuel tanks internally. Full stealth full time. The F-35 is a jack-of-all-trades. The F-22 is an air superiority fighter just like the F-15 it should replace. It will be sooner rather than later when the Chinese have something to better the F-15 and the F-35.

Read the AP article below.

Wes

F-15 Grounding Strains U.S. Defenses
Associated Press | December 27, 2007
FRESNO, Calif. - The grounding of hundreds of F-15s because of dangerous structural defects is straining the nation's air defense network, forcing some states to rely on their neighbors' fighter jets for protection, and Alaska to depend on the Canadian military.

The Air Force grounded about 450 F-15s - the sole fighter at many of the 16 or so "alert" sites around the country - after one of the fighters began to break apart in the air and crashed Nov. 2 in Missouri. An Air Force investigation found "possible fleet-wide airworthiness problems" because of defects in the metal rails that hold the fuselage together. It is not clear when the F-15s will be allowed to fly again.

Compounding the problem created by the grounding, another fighter jet used for homeland defense, the F-16, is in high demand for Iraq operations. And the next-generation fighter, the F-22 Raptor, is only slowly replacing the aging F-15.

Military officials say they moved quickly to patch any holes in the homeland air-defense system, and they report an increase in air defense sorties in the past month, using replacement F-16s. But they acknowledge difficulties.

"When you're filling in, obviously it's going to cause some strain," said Mike Strickler, a spokesman with North American Aerospace Defense Command, or NORAD, which is operated by the U.S. and Canada. "You're spreading resources a little thinner than we would like."

But air defenses have not been compromised, Strickler said. "We can be anywhere at any time," he said.

With the F-15s in Massachusetts out of commission, the Vermont Air National Guard is covering the whole Northeast. The Minnesota Air National Guard is manning sites in Hawaii. In Louisiana, the Illinois Air National Guard has been filling in.

And with Oregon's fighters grounded, the California Air National Guard is standing watch for the entire West Coast, an area of more than 300,000 square miles that is home to more than 46 million people in California, Oregon, Washington, and slices of Arizona and Nevada.

The California Air National Guard said this is first time in history that a single state's fighter wing is providing coverage for an entire coast.

The California Guard is keeping three alert sites - in Riverside and Fresno, Calif., and Portland, Ore. - equipped and staffed with pilots and mechanics.

"As a unit we're kind of stressed, but everyone's accepting this as a challenge and all the men and women of the unit are acting as professionally as you could ever hope for," said Col. Gary Taylor, operations group commander for the Fresno-based 144th Fighter Wing of the California Air National Guard.

The unit has had to borrow F-16s from bases in Indiana and Arizona and trim back training for certain overseas operations.

A relatively small number of F-15s - the model known as the F-15E Strike Eagle - were not found to have the structural problem, and are unaffected by the grounding.

For three weeks in November, Canadian CF-18s filled in for the F-15s over Alaska. Several times, the Canadian fighters scrambled to "do an identification" of Russian bombers flying exercises outside U.S. airspace near Alaska, said Maj. Mike Lagace, a Canadian military spokesman for NORAD.

"We flew up, met with the long-range patrol, basically let them know, `Hi, folks, we're here too,'" Lagace said. Russian warplanes have been flying exercises near Alaska and Canada with increasing frequency in recent months.

Now, a brand-new squadron of F-22s based in Alaska is standing in for the state's grounded F-15s, said Tech. Sgt. Mikal R. Canfield, a spokesman at Elmendorf Air Force Base.

As for the F-15 pilots in Portland who have been largely idled by the no-fly order, they have told the visiting California airmen they are eager to get back in the cockpit.

"They're thankful for our help," said Col. Ryan A. Orian, the 144th Fighter Wing's vice commander. "But they'd love for us to leave."

lightman1

My dental fillings can pick up FM radio stations.........

zombie boy 2000

lightman1 wrote: »

My dental fillings can pick up FM radio stations.........

But only that AOR washed out ****. If your half-priced hooks get off on Karen Carpenter, then have at it. Stay down.

I've been so many places in my life and time
I've sung a lot of songs, I've made some bad rhyme
I've acted out my love on stages
With ten thousand people watching
But we're alone now and I'm singin' this song for you

lightman1

Deep...really deep....My thoughts have been provoked, ZB.

obieone

If the dem's are pushing a piece that the DoD doesn't wasnt, it's probably for jobs in a blue state

I-SIG

obieone wrote: »

If the dem's are pushing a piece that the DoD doesn't wasnt, it's probably for jobs in a blue state

When your old planes are literally falling out of the sky, does it matter what state they are built in?

BTW, the great state of Georgia is pretty red the last time I checked.

Wes

obieone

Sorry. I'm 1/2 asleep, and was thinking it was going to WA state.

I-SIG

No prob.

Wes

lightman1

Tighten up, obi.

zombie boy 2000

Watcha' talking 'bout Willis? Obi is like a cross between Mr Bean and a Benny Hill soundtrack. Except with burning crosses... and lots and lots of "stank eye".

lightman1

Ne're met the lad. He sounds like fun to be around. 'specially the "stank eye" part.