Weakest Link

erik4

In your opinion where's the weakest link in this system...

2 - Sunfire Cinema Grand Amps(200 per channel x's 5)
SAE 501A (200 per channel x's 2)
Sunfire Theatre Grand II Preamp
Polk 2000i's (pair) fed 200 W per channel
Polk RTI 150's (pair) fed Bi-amped 200 W to top, 200 W to bottom
All of the above speakers are fronts

M&K s150's (pair) side speakers (SAE fed 400 W into 4 ohms)

Polk cs400i? (center) Bi-amped fed 200 W to top, 200 W to bottom
Polk fxi50's(Surrounds)
Klipsch KS15 (sub)
Polk pws350 (sub)
Entire system wired with monster cables (next to top of the line)

Although I can't say for sure - I think I could use a better sub and perhaps a larger center. I mostly listen to music (CD'S) and music on DVD's. The surrounds don't do much for me - maybe for movies they would.

Your thoughts?

mantis

ok WOW nice system man.You got nice stuff everywhere but I will focus on what I believe is your downfall.

1)Lets start in the front.I see no need to own the rt2000's anymore now that you have the rti150s.I'd get them out and run only 1 pair of mains.The rt2000i's are so difficult to get sounding MUSICAL.

2)The M&K's,the don't match your system what so ever.M&K are fantastic sounding speakers.Here's a thought there.If you like the way the M&K's sound over the rt series Polk's you own,then focus on getting all your Polks out of your systme and go all M&K.M&K systems I ahve heard blew my skirt up and had me on an adventure to seek them out and give em some time.Nice stuff.

3)The sub's,yes get them both out.Polk is coming out with a new reference sub in the psw808, for the hell of it,give it a listen.Proven sub's on the market Bob Carvers subs are pretty killer,not really musical but for theater they rock.Velodyne HGS line is amazing,they keep a notation in the back of my mind as I'm growing closer and closer on buying a new sub for myself.I personally like REL subs.They are the most musical subs on the market in my opnion.I have heard just about every brand sub made.REL has a special place in my heart.I would give a listen.I really depends on what your looking for in a sub.

4)Wire.........always something to consider.Wire is the last word in your systems sound.It can tweak your sound to personalize it.Monster makes fine products,but there is a world of wire out there,always a consideration.........

5)preamp.There is a new one on the market in the grand III.If you want to be current,I'd give it a look.Not nessary, but a thought nonetheless.

Well I hope I at least got you thinking,or pissed you off.Your system is nice the way it is,my thoughts are what I would do If I owned it.
Hey you never spoke of Video or sources,whats in there place???

erik4

Mantis:
You make a lot of sense. I just hate to waste the 2000i's. BY the way my audio source is a Pioneer DV-C603. Video is a 32 inch flat screen Sony - 1 year old.

I bought the M&K's (believe it or not) to attempt to improve the overall sound of the 2000i's - before I bought the Polk 150's. What would you think of using the M&K's for boosting the center channel Polk csi400's?

As you suggest, maybe I should simplify the system. If I did I'd have a couple of good systems. I don't think I want to plunk down the money for a complete M&K system. Heaven knows if I did that in the first place I probably would have spent less.

dcarlson

Erik,

I'm at a crossroad in my system that Mantis can attest too and is a of great help as always.

I'm not sure where to go from here. I have a HT system that I listen 90% music with and would hate to give up the surround for movies and Music DVDs. I'm thinking of going with a dedicated 2 channel system. Anyway, I have to do some serious future forecasting on where I want it to go.

Good luck on your trek.

Derick.

Tour2ma

Yassir to the above, Subs popped out at me first as well. I can't speak to the other speakers, so I jumped to the supplemental amp.

SAE has been a very fine amp name for many years, but I don't think it's a match for the Sunfire. It’s certainly not in the headroom department and likely not in the general sound as well. Maybe the amp/ speaker combinations do some paired correction that makes everything sound right, but that still leave the headroom issue.

The SAE would make a nice 2 ch amp with whichever mains you "pull" out of the HT rig. Don't even have to move them, just wire them up out of a Zone 2 option for 2 ch jollies... Can keep the sub in play as well with a little wiring and an external source selector.

As for a substitute for the SAE in the HT rig? Not sure... a 2 ch Sunfire is the obvious answer. I'm going to try my M1.5t Carver with my Sig Cinema Grand. An M1.0t would be a good match power and headroom wise for the Sunfire Ciinema Sig. ebay has a few most weeks that go for between $260 and $290 depending... Much cheaper option than a 2 ch Sunfire...

erik4

Here's a photo of my system. Don't mind the cheap VCR player - I never use it. I should have taken a picture of the back side. What a bunch of wires.

Tour2ma

Nice, and very clean looking, but some tough backlighting.

Ever try stacking your subs?

You should post in the Club's systems area.

erik4

I'm interested in opinions regarding speaker placement. My listening position is 3 feet to the right of center (where the TV is, is center) about 15 feet back. The room is about 25' x 35'. You see the 25' wall. Why is the picture so big? Oh well. Thanks

Dr. Spec

"For theater, the king of all theater subs seem to be SVS. I hear NO negative feedback from owners of SVS subs. Rel is the musical equivelent of SVS. I never heard the two play, I can only go by reviews and word of mouth from owners. Just to note - SVS is very affordable, for 600 bucks you can shake your whole house with absolute ease, yet still mating the gear you have now."



Despite their reputation for SPL on HT, SV subs take a back seat to no one for music. It's easy to make a vented subwoofer pound; it's really hard to make a vented subwoofer sound great and this is where SVS has really sweat the details in the R&D department. The transient response and the group delay characteristics of SV subs rivals that of a sealed enclosure, and that's really saying something.

For pure music quality, the sealed enclosure is unbeatable if done properly. Transient response and group delay characteristics are second to none. Downfalls are a lack of output and extension.

For music and HT, some type of venting or quasi-venting (line transmission or passive radiator) is really almost essential because of the huge improvement in both extension and SPL over a comparable sealed design.

For an informed (and different) opinion on SV sound quality for music, ask HBomb what he thinks of his dual CS+. I already suspect what he is gong to say - instrument timbre, detail, transients, subtle changes in texture and tone - all come through with perfect clarity. Sound quality, output, and extension is comparable to dual Velo HGS-15's for a LOT less money.

None of this is a knock against REL. I'd love to hear one of their better units and stack it up against some stiff competition and take some FR and SPL measurements and do some extensive subjective listening sessions.

mantis

Doc,
what unique about the RELS is the way they connect to the system.They have 2 built in preamps to accept 2 signal at the same time.High and low level signal via balanced speaker connection and tipical line level.Both have there own crossover settings and volume levels/phase controls.

The SVS sub's I also have heard nothing but great things.I wouldn't mind listening for myself.No one around here carries them(Philadelphia, PA)I'm just north of the city and 4 minutes from New Jersey.

REL is better known for Musical abilities.You would like the flexability.

mantis

O yeah erik4,
yes I have to agree with speaker placement.I see no need for the M&K support for centerchannel duty,the cs400 is just fine all by it's self.You don't need 2 apir of mains,pick the set you like better and remove the other pair.Stacking the subs is good advice.Or better yeat selling both and getting a better single sub.

As Tourma pointed out in the amp selection,matching amps are the way to go.I perfer the same exact amp on all channels for better fidelity.Tonal matching,Dynamic range etc.

gidrah

Damn that's some nice rig you got goin' there buddy.

Speaker placement: Definately move things around. When you find the right spot, write down your thoughts as to why it sounds good and move them again. Swap innies with outties. Pull your outties forward just a little to make them equedistant from the innies to your listening postion. Do your best to align the tweeters to within about 1/2" in height and at the same distance.

Electronics: This is easy. Swap me that nasty ugly old SAE for a shiny Carver M200t. All my (oops) your problems will be solved.

Ceruleance

I wouldnt put the 150's in the back just yet, he probably bought them cause he likes them better than the 2000's. I would move the 2000's to the back, as well as perhaps the polk sub, instead of having two subs up front.

BTW, the weakest part of your system is definitely not the audio, that can be solved with some placement and rearrangement (or removal) of speakers. I think you need a bigger TV, especially from 15 feet back.

Boy do I wish I had the Sunfire equipment you have, very nice.

tryrrthg

mantis also forgot about the BEST thing about REL subs! It's their low crossover points! you can crossover the REL in the 25hz range. which makes it GREAT for audiophiles who want to listen to every last bit of their floorstanding speakers that they dropped so much money on! That and their easy placement into any room, just put it in the corner and gradually move it out, or so is my understanding...

joe logston

hi erik4, the 2000 will make good surounds, mantis is right about the powered towers not much sound stage click my pictures on and see how i do my rt-20p with is about the same as the rt-2000p,
and welcome to the forum

mantis

Originally posted by tryrrthg
mantis also forgot about the BEST thing about REL subs! It's their low crossover points! you can crossover the REL in the 25hz range. which makes it GREAT for audiophiles who want to listen to every last bit of their floorstanding speakers that they dropped so much money on! That and their easy placement into any room, just put it in the corner and gradually move it out, or so is my understanding...

REL's are audiophiles sub's.There setup is like no other.One ofthe reasons I"m going to power my theater with REL.Musical they are