SDA SRS 2.3TL problem / questions

RCFGuitars

I’ve been searching threads for answers to a similar problem, and I was able to get quite a bit of info from a recent post by vmaxer. However, I still have a couple of questions that I hope some of you SDA experts can help me answer, and/or offer some suggestions.

I’ve had these 2.3TL’s for a couple of weeks now. When I have run them 2 ch. stereo, as opposed to part of the HT setup, I have also run my subs, with the TL’s crossed over at 80Hz. I had no trouble producing high decibels without distortion.

Yesterday, I sold my 2 subs in anticipation of a new pair on the way. I set up my system to run without subs, with the full range going to the 2.3TL’s. They sounded fine until I started to turn it up to see how they performed at high volume on their own. When I reached a substantial volume level, but a level lower than the levels previously attained with the subs, all hell seemed to break loose. The mid drivers started popping, it sounded like tweeters were coming in and out, and the imaging was coming and going. It also seemed to me that the 15” passive was not moving in and out a great deal. When I turned up my SDA2’s, the 12” really moved. Talk about a sick feeling in my stomach.

Here’s what I’ve checked so far:

The Adcom amp is not clipping. Or if it is, the front indicator lights are not showing it. I realize that the Adcom is not common ground, but the neg. terminals of the fronts are strapped together per Adcoms instruction.

The auto set up on my Yamaha checks the phase / polarity, and it says that is all okay. I have faith in this feature because it detected mis-wired drivers in my SDA2’s.

EQ is flat.

I tried the 2.3TL’s with another (less powerful) amp, and the same problem.

I tried different recordings and different sources.

All of the drivers are moving freely. If I push in and hold the passive radiator, all the mids push out and go back in 2-3 seconds.

Finally, I plugged my SDA 2A’s in without changing any settings, and they sounded great. I was able to reproduce the popping noise of the mids, but at a higher volume level than the 2.3TL’s, and the noise was not as intense or pronounced.

I can only come up with 4 possible answers:

1. Even though the mid drivers are moving, one or more could be bad, or has a short at the wiring connection. But, I don’t think that explains the tweeters.

2. I have an aftermarket SDA cable. Could that have something to do with the imaging problem? It does, however sound good at lower volume. (Probably not an issue, but I don’t like to leave any stones unturned)

3. Crossover issue?

4. The Adcom 5503 does not have the power to run 2.3TL’s full range at high volume.

Any suggestions, help, or guidance would be greatly appreciated.

zarrdoss

if both sets were doing it even at different levels your problem should not be in your 2.3's If you have a multi tester I would start by checking your 2.3's with that.

tcrossma

I've never owned SDA's, so take what I have to say with a grain of salt. I'm sure someone with more experience will chime in soon.

What you are describing sounds like a power issue to me. The amp is being required to do a lot more now that you don't have a sub to help out. I know the SDA's can take a lot of power, and that Adcom amp can pump out plenty of power, but for some reason it seems to be lacking in this particular case.

Good luck tracking it down.

leroyjr1

As the previous owner of your 2.3tls I always had them run in full range and never noticed any popping or tweeter issues. Running them off my Adcom 555II they sounded great and had more bass output than my Polk Micropro 4000 sub.

Did you have the grounds tied together everytime you play the SDA's with the IC cable connected. I'm going to be down by you tomorrow if you like I can stop by and take a look for you. Did you try using the spare mid driver I gave you on the popping mids?

george daniel

Hmmm, same issue,,different speakers,,, I'm thinking,,AMP,,, be thankful that you did not blow anything, hopefully.It's been my experience with 2.3's, that the more current,and power,,current being the key word,,the better they sound,, not being familar with that particular adcom,,have you ruled out the "non common grounding issues?,,Good luck,,can you try another amp?

RCFGuitars

leroyjr1 wrote: »

As the previous owner of your 2.3tls I always had them run in full range and never noticed any popping or tweeter issues. Running them off my Adcom 555II they sounded great and had more bass output than my Polk Micropro 4000 sub.

Did you have the grounds tied together everytime you play the SDA's with the IC cable connected. I'm going to be down by you tomorrow if you like I can stop by and take a look for you. Did you try using the spare mid driver I gave you on the popping mids?

Thank you Lee. Yes, every time I've used the 5503, I've had the grounds together. I haven't tried swapping drivers yet. It actually sounded like more than one. If we can get our schedules to work tomorrow, it would be great if you could take a listen. Another CP member in my area with 2.3tl's also offered to let me try my speakers with a bigger amp to see if that's the issue. I guess at this point I'm starting to think it's an amp/power issue.

RCFGuitars

george daniel wrote: »

Hmmm, same issue,,different speakers,,, I'm thinking,,AMP,,, be thankful that you did not blow anything, hopefully.It's been my experience with 2.3's, that the more current,and power,,current being the key word,,the better they sound,, not being familar with that particular adcom,,have you ruled out the "non common grounding issues?,,Good luck,,can you try another amp?

I did try running them with my Yamaha AVR, 140wpc/8ohm, and had the same issue.

RCFGuitars

zarrdoss wrote: »

if both sets were doing it even at different levels your problem should not be in your 2.3's If you have a multi tester I would start by checking your 2.3's with that.

I do have a multi tester. Should I start by checking the impedance of each driver?

zarrdoss

RCFGuitars wrote: »

I do have a multi tester. Should I start by checking the impedance of each driver?

Start with the impedance of both speakers and if you get any discrepancies then start pulling individual drivers. I really don't know what could happen to a crossover all the sudden like that do do what you say it did. You might also pull the jumpers (to bi-amp them) and that way you can troubleshoot the hi and low frequencies separate.

zarrdoss

also you might have a bad speaker cable / wire. or a connection in the crossovers. I would also try a completely different rig (source, pre, and amp) with different wires and IC's and check all your connection real well.

RCFGuitars

zarrdoss wrote: »

Start with the impedance of both speakers and if you get any discrepancies then start pulling individual drivers. I really don't know what could happen to a crossover all the sudden like that do do what you say it did. You might also pull the jumpers (to bi-amp them) and that way you can troubleshoot the hi and low frequencies separate.

That's a good idea. I'll try bi-amping them when I get home tonight. I can do that with my AVR if I disconnect my rear surrounds. If it's a power issue, that should also make a difference.

zarrdoss

also do you still have the original pollyswitches on them? could account your tweeters going in and out at high levels.

RCFGuitars

zarrdoss wrote: »

also do you still have the original pollyswitches on them? could account your tweeters going in and out at high levels.

As far as I know, the internals are 100% stock. Are the pollyswitches part of the tweeter itself? I am planning to install RDO-198's in the very near future.

zarrdoss

no pollyswitches are on the crossover the 2.3tl's have 4 they're a self resetting switch that if it gets too much current it will heat up and shut off the supply to the tweeter, good idea only problem is after 20 years they start to go out at lower current than they're supposed to and tweets will cut in and out or go out altogether. They are a thin yellow round disc about 1/4" width two legs coming out.
You can take them out and by-pass them or Polk will send you new ones for free.

RCFGuitars

zarrdoss wrote: »

no pollyswitches are on the crossover the 2.3tl's have 4 they're a self resetting switch that if it gets too much current it will heat up and shut off the supply to the tweeter, good idea only problem is after 20 years they start to go out at lower current than they're supposed to and tweets will cut in and out or go out altogether. They are a thin yellow round disc about 1/4" width two legs coming out.
You can take them out and by-pass them or Polk will send you new ones for free.

That is great info! Thank you. I'll check those out as well. I think it's inevitable that at some point I will be getting the crossover mods that many here already have, but first things first.

vmaxer

Good luck with the issue. I am waiting to get my new tweeters to continue the troubleshooting process.

zarrdoss

RCFGuitars wrote: »

That is great info! Thank you. I'll check those out as well. I think it's inevitable that at some point I will be getting the crossover mods that many here already have, but first things first.

Your welcome crossover upgrades will help the sq but pollyswitch failure is fairly common on these.

RCFGuitars

vmaxer wrote: »

Good luck with the issue. I am waiting to get my new tweeters to continue the troubleshooting process.

Thank you, and best of luck to you as well. This forum is great, and the folks here have a lot of knowledge. I'm confident that with all the help, we'll both get our SDA's sounding the way they are supposed to.

WastelandWand'r

The 5503 is good for 200X3 if i remember correctly without checking my sources (internet) on it. If anything has quit on you in the guts of it, it may be seeing a 'tiring' current demand, crapping out on you and sending your 2.3's an ugly square shaped signal that your drivers are dutifully trying to reproduce, with the predictable results. Rattling/slapping drivers, tweeters going into protect mode and trying to tell you that things are not all good in the world.
The easiest thing would be to try a different amp to see if that eliminate the problem. If it doesn't fix it you are teetering on the slippery slope of troubleshooting.
The condition described sounds exactly like my Monitor 10's when I asked too much of the AVR. In a drunken stupor I thought it 'awesome' to overdrive things. Turn it down, problem solved. With my ADCOM 555II it will drive them to some pretty healthy pressure levels without sweating.

I really hope it is something easy and you are back to enjoying them right quick. My fingers are crossed for you.
Good Luck,
Nathan

george daniel

I'm still thinking,,amp.

F1nut

The Adcom 5503 does not have the power to run 2.3TL’s full range at high volume.

What is high volume.....more than half on the volume knob?

RCFGuitars

F1nut wrote: »

What is high volume.....more than half on the volume knob?

Sorry, I should have included that info in the OP.
I don't think my volume knob has any markings on it, but I'm sure it's got to be over half. I'm using my AVR as the pre, and the range on its volume read out is -80.0dB to +16.5dB. Running 2 channel, with the subs hooked up, 0.0dB was clean and loud. With the TL's full range, depending upon the source, things started to go crazy around -8.0dB. When I hooked up the SDA2's full range, they stayed clean until -3.0dB.

F1nut

Ok, the SDA SRS 2 and the SDA 2A (not sure which you have) both have an efficiency of 92dB, while the SDA SRS 2.3TL is 90 dB. So, you'll get more volume before clipping from the SDA SRS 2 or the SDA 2A.

Half or more than half volume will put your amp into clipping, which from what you have described is what is happening. Turn it down before you do serious damage.

leroyjr1

RCFGuitars wrote: »

Sorry, I should have included that info in the OP.
I don't think my volume knob has any markings on it, but I'm sure it's got to be over half. I'm using my AVR as the pre, and the range on its volume read out is -80.0dB to +16.5dB. Running 2 channel, with the subs hooked up, 0.0dB was clean and loud. With the TL's full range, depending upon the source, things started to go crazy around -8.0dB. When I hooked up the SDA2's full range, they stayed clean until -3.0dB.

0.0db is very high. What to you have your bass set at?

nooshinjohn

I have set my pre to not allow anything beyond 0db. Typically I will go no louder than -10.0db when running my TL's

RCFGuitars

My second set of speakers that I have been using for testing are SDA 2A's. The Adcom has lights on the front to indicate clipping, and in this situation even the yellow warning lights are not lighting at all. Right now, the EQ is flat, no boost or cut to any frequencies.
I don't know now, maybe the speakers are okay, and I just need more amp. There's a McIntosh MC2600 on ebay right now - maybe I should pick that up. 600wpc should be enough:D
Or, maybe my idea of serious SPL's is different that most, and I'm expecting too much from this rig. Could have something to do with standing in front of Marshall and Hiwatt stacks for the past 20 years:)
I'm going to start by bi-amping with more power, and see what happens from there.

F1nut

I don't care what the lights are telling you, it's clipping. As for SPL's, keep in mind that for every 3dB increase it takes double the power.

Your 2.3TL's......

90dB -1 watt
93dB - 2 watts
96dB - 4 watts
99dB - 8 watts
102dB - 16 watts
105dB - 32 watts
108dB - 64 watts
111dB - 128 watts
114dB - 256 watts
117dB - 512 watts
120dB - 1024 watts

vmaxer

F1nut wrote: »

I don't care what the lights are telling you, it's clipping. As for SPL's, keep in mind that for every 3dB increase it takes double the power.

Your 2.3TL's......

90dB -1 watt
93dB - 2 watts
96dB - 4 watts
99dB - 8 watts
102dB - 16 watts
105dB - 32 watts
108dB - 64 watts
111dB - 128 watts
114dB - 256 watts
117dB - 512 watts
120dB - 1024 watts

Is this at a distance of 1 meter??

Tony M

I think I was having the same distortion problems with my SDA-SRS2's .

After I replaced my interconnect sockets and bought a new cable from Polk cust.serv. the sound is incredible now!

I feel I have to turn the volume knob more than I ever had to before. I don't know if this part of having to drive them loud or not.

Dose anybody else have to turn their volume knob to 12:00 to play these big guys loud?

F1nut

vmaxer wrote: »

Is this at a distance of 1 meter??

Yes.

Tony M

That's good to know:D. I don't feel short changed now. Their sound is awsome at regular volumes too but sometimes we've just got to hear it loud.:D