Minor emergency with my TL's

nooshinjohn
nooshinjohn Posts: 25,461
edited July 2009 in Vintage Speakers
I pulled the drivers tonite to replace the polyfill inside the speakers only to find that eveything is wired out of phase! I don't know why I was unable to hear that but all drivers in both arrays are wired incorrectly.:eek:

I have so far had no issues putting things back the way they should be with exception of the third driver from the bottom. I have no doubt the wiring is factory true. the driver in question has a black AND a white wire connected to the same terminal. Is this correct?

thanks for the help!

John
The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
Post edited by nooshinjohn on
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited July 2009
    Wiring diagrams for the 1.2TL's can be found in the SDA schematics thread in the Vintage Speakers forum section.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,461
    edited July 2009
    added to the above... on the back side of the of the crossover... should there be anything soldered to the circuit board of ANY kind...
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,461
    edited July 2009
    I have looked at those, and I think I figured out what they were doing on that one. I am confused by the crossovers at this moment however...
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited July 2009
    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    added to the above... on the back side of the of the crossover... should there be anything soldered to the circuit board of ANY kind...

    Your pictures are not clear enough for me to see what you mean. If you are asking if any wires should be soldered to the crossover board, the answer is no. All wiring should connect to the crossover board with snap-in wiring harnesses.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,461
    edited July 2009
    I figured that as well DK... it would appear that there have been some un-needed mods made to these. I am refering to all the yellow caps that have been added to the backside of the crossover itself. All the wiring thankfully is soldered to the board in the proper locations on the board. take a peek at pictures two and three and you will see what I am taliking about.

    Thanks for taking the time DK, I am grateful for the time.

    PM sent.


    John
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited July 2009
    Perhaps the yellow caps are bypass film caps for the electrolytics. I have heard of people doing that when they didn't want to replace the electrolytics.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,461
    edited July 2009
    so I should plan on taking them down and getting them rebuilt soon then?
    lol... should I try and run them with the phase corrected then and not worry about the crap on the back?

    John
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • Ricardo
    Ricardo Posts: 10,636
    edited July 2009
    Be careful with changing the wiring..... SDA's wiring can look weird.

    This diagram is for the 1.2 TL's and you can see how wires go from - to + both in the SDA and Stereo sides.

    SDAWiring1.jpg
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited July 2009
    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    so I should plan on taking them down and getting them rebuilt soon then?

    I think it would be a good idea to rebuild the crossovers simply due to the age of the electrolytic caps. If you don't want to go to the time and expense of replacing the electrolytics with film caps, I would recommend replacing the electrolytics with new electrolytics.

    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    lol... should I try and run them with the phase corrected then and not worry about the crap on the back?

    You should figure out what the yellow caps are connected to.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited July 2009
    The black and white are likely crimped together to facilitate a series connection which it appears both arrays are wired in a series/parallel config.
    Testing
    Testing
    Testing
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,461
    edited July 2009
    thanks guys... I got the wiring troubles figured out... now for the damn crossover.
    I wish I could figure out what the damn caps are doing there. The guy Igot them from says they were done to improve sound quality and nothing more. He also said he assumed they were wired correctly when he put them back in as Black is ground everywhere else but here. He said the crossover mods will not affect the wiring being corrected as I have done, so I am going to fire them up and give a listen

    John
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,461
    edited July 2009
    well.. They now sound even better! With the phase issues corrected and the new polyfil in place they sound as if a veil has been lifted from them. I would not have gotten them done tonight without you guys! Ricardo, the diagram was a lifesaver!

    Thanks Guys.

    John
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • vmaxer
    vmaxer Posts: 5,117
    edited July 2009
    Ricardo wrote: »
    Be careful with changing the wiring..... SDA's wiring can look weird.

    This diagram is for the 1.2 TL's and you can see how wires go from - to + both in the SDA and Stereo sides.

    SDAWiring1.jpg


    This is a great help, Thank you!!!!:D
    Pio Elete Pro 520
    Panamax 5400-EX
    Sunfire TGP 5
    Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
    PS Audio GCPH phono pre
    Sunfire CG 200 X 5
    Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
    OPPO BDP-83 SE
    SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
    Ctr CS1000p
    Sur - FX1000 x 4
    SUB - SVS PB2-Plus

    Workkout room:
    Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
    Onkyo TX-DS898
    GFA 555
    Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
    Ft - SDA 1C

    Not being used:
    RTi 38's -4
    RT55i's - 2
    RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
    LSI 15's
    CSi40
    PSW 404
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,748
    edited July 2009
    all drivers in both arrays are wired incorrectly.

    How did you arrive at that conclusion?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,461
    edited July 2009
    white and green were running to the positive side of the driver, as identified by the little red dot. The should have been black and blue, just like I am now after wrestling with these beasts all day.

    John
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,748
    edited July 2009
    Ok in that case, they were wired incorrectly. Have you checked the tweeters as well?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,461
    edited July 2009
    yes.. they were all correct, but the top two were disconnected.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,748
    edited July 2009
    but the top two were disconnected.

    It's good that you have rescued these speakers.

    Those yellow caps are either Auricap or Kimber (made by Auricap) and I agree with Raife that they are probably bypass caps. Get rid of them when you upgrade the crossovers.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,461
    edited July 2009
    I am looking into parts now. Is there any way to restore the plug in connectors or is that screwed forever...
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,748
    edited July 2009
    Mouser will have them.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,461
    edited July 2009
    F1nut wrote: »
    Mouser will have them.
    who is Mouser. Is this for the connectors or the crossover parts.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited July 2009
    http://www.mouser.com/
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,748
    edited July 2009
    GD's got it. Look at the Molex or AMP rectangular connectors.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • vmaxer
    vmaxer Posts: 5,117
    edited July 2009
    Okay, who is GD??
    Pio Elete Pro 520
    Panamax 5400-EX
    Sunfire TGP 5
    Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
    PS Audio GCPH phono pre
    Sunfire CG 200 X 5
    Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
    OPPO BDP-83 SE
    SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
    Ctr CS1000p
    Sur - FX1000 x 4
    SUB - SVS PB2-Plus

    Workkout room:
    Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
    Onkyo TX-DS898
    GFA 555
    Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
    Ft - SDA 1C

    Not being used:
    RTi 38's -4
    RT55i's - 2
    RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
    LSI 15's
    CSi40
    PSW 404
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited July 2009
    I am GD;)
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • vmaxer
    vmaxer Posts: 5,117
    edited July 2009
    george daniel wrote: »
    I am GD;)

    Good to know!!
    Pio Elete Pro 520
    Panamax 5400-EX
    Sunfire TGP 5
    Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
    PS Audio GCPH phono pre
    Sunfire CG 200 X 5
    Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
    OPPO BDP-83 SE
    SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
    Ctr CS1000p
    Sur - FX1000 x 4
    SUB - SVS PB2-Plus

    Workkout room:
    Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
    Onkyo TX-DS898
    GFA 555
    Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
    Ft - SDA 1C

    Not being used:
    RTi 38's -4
    RT55i's - 2
    RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
    LSI 15's
    CSi40
    PSW 404
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  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,794
    edited July 2009
    vmaxer wrote: »
    Good to know!!
    And he's real sweetheart to boot.:D
    Great job on the TL's John. Looking sweet. After you finish the x-overs, they should be mind blowing!
    Keep up the good work, ya freak!
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,461
    edited July 2009
    lightman1 wrote: »
    And he's real sweetheart to boot.:D
    Great job on the TL's John. Looking sweet. After you finish the x-overs, they should be mind blowing!
    Keep up the good work, ya freak!
    Thanks Lightmanfor your kind words... but one guy calling another a sweetheart? That's freaky:p
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,794
    edited July 2009
    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    Thanks Lightmanfor your kind words... but one guy calling another a sweetheart? That's freaky:p
    You haven't met George yet. He's a peach!
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