Three items to improve electronics and system
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Good then maybe he will be kind enough to explain it to me?;)reeltrouble1 wrote: »Gawd, the effin Canadian understands it perfectly..........
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it needs to be in the ADC as well as DAC ends or the results will be an half-****. But even with the new DSP algorithm, it's not necessary making the CD sounds better than what the studio has put on the CD.
exactly correct. The pre-ringing occurs and degrades the signal at the a/d stage. they are not concerned with the ringing after the signal impulse as this occurs in nature, the key according to Harley is that ringing never appears in nature before the signal so it is quite noticeable to our ear, hypothizing, well Stuart states, this is the reason 44.1 imparts the etch or hardness associated with CD. The Apodising filter was developed by a man named Craven and is available as a white paper, the concept was developed from radiowave technology. It adds nothing to the signal, it simply removes the etch from the pre-ringing with occured at the a/d process.
Now, Stuart also states that given a higher sampling rate the ringing does not occur, I wouild love to discuss why this is with him. I am quite sure though he would provide a thorough answer. Stuart has long been a proponent of high sample rates for CD and lobby hard for something above 44.1, but as we know failed to have a higher standard adopted, he is no fan of 16 bit either.
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I have absolutely no idea what you guys are talking about. And I take that as a good thing._________________________________________________
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Yes thanks for the noncombative exchange mega.;)
Rest assured that I went to hand to hand combat training and I can fully activate to be in full assault mode in 0 seconds. Well, that was a BS.
Actually, I think BlueFox is the person who is noncombative and I should thanks him for that.
But I am going to stay on my ground since the exact mentioning of Text I quoted from Meridian article is very vague (for now).
The upsampling increases both bit depths and resolution from 44.1KHz but the end results will be in closer representation to the 44.1KHz. It's also means more deviation from the Original Analog Recording source since more transformation is performed and more interpolation is added. Having said that, it's a choice for transmitting over a distance since clock synchronization is easier and one loss of bit has less effects in the DSD.
It's the choosing between more evil or less evil things depending on the situation.reeltrouble1 wrote: »exactly correct. The pre-ringing occurs and degrades the signal at the a/d stage. they are not concerned with the ringing after the signal impulse as this occurs in nature, the key according to Harley is that ringing never appears in nature before the signal so it is quite noticeable to our ear, hypothizing, well Stuart states, this is the reason 44.1 imparts the etch or hardness associated with CD. The Apodising filter was developed by a man named Craven and is available as a white paper, the concept was developed from radiowave technology. It adds nothing to the signal, it simply removes the etch from the pre-ringing with occured at the a/d process.
Now, Stuart also states that given a higher sampling rate the ringing does not occur, I wouild love to discuss why this is with him. I am quite sure though he would provide a thorough answer. Stuart has long been a proponent of high sample rates for CD and lobby hard for something above 44.1, but as we know failed to have a higher standard adopted, he is no fan of 16 bit either.
RT1
Yeah RT1, I think it's the reason the SACD standard is adopted.
The sharpness or edginess in Redbook player is not only due to the DSP losses, it also has a lot more to do with power supply and analog stages in the CDP as GV pointed out.Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
Yeah RT1, I think it's the reason the SACD standard is adopted.
The sharpness or edginess in Redbook player is not only due to the DSP losses, it also has a lot more to do with power supply and analog stages in the CDP as GV pointed out.
yes, my reference player has three seperate power supplys that must reach a certain stage before fully powering the unit, power and signal path are always a priority.
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Actually, I think BlueFox is the person who is noncombative and I should thanks him for that.
All I know about this issue is what I read in the absolute sound articles, and the stereophile review. So I cannot "discuss" one way or the other the validity of the technology, which is why I will claim Swiss citizenship in this case.
However, from my perspective, the technology seems perfectly logical, and does not appear to be hype on Meridian's part. If Meridian said this CD player would cure impotence, and baldness, then I might suspect some hype is in play, but they simply say it will remove pre-ringing distortion no matter where it was introduced into the recording. I expect there is a technical way to differentiate this distortion from, for example, the normal notes of a Hendrix song. If there isnt then they do have a problem.
Anyway, until the technology is available in a less than $3K standalone DAC, I will not be using it. So until then, I will stick with Mapleshade CD polishing technology to accomplish the same thing for only pennies a CD. :rolleyes:Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
He was the man behind the development of the hi res MLP 24bit/96k/192k DVD-A standard that unfortunately flopped as though it were actually a Sony brainchild(think elcassette ,mini disc etc).Kudo's to them for actually developing a great format in the now floundering DSD/ SACD.reeltrouble1 wrote: »Stuart has long been a proponent of high sample rates for CD and lobby hard for something above 44.1, but as we know failed to have a higher standard adopted, he is no fan of 16 bit either.
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Absolutely, one strange thing is this machine does not do DVD-A, I suppose Stuart's submission to the formats non-acceptance, too bad, but why not include it, there are folks with extensive DVD-A libraries who bought Meridan's prior machines for their reference player, I mean come on, if it cost 16,000 large to start how much extra would this feature add....... I duuno just seems strange, unless he is trying to emphasize this player makes redbook so good you do not need the high-rez, but that would not follow the review, as Harley indicates its still not as good as well recorded high rez discs.....
I think Stuart needs me on his team, 25 months before I retire, then I can help him get this stuff straight and get some tubes in the input stage.
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Yeah now there's a plan,after developing sophisticated DSP alorgithms to remove nasty digital artifacts then hide the benifits under the noise floor and 2nd order harmonic distortion of a tube:eek::Dreeltrouble1 wrote: »
I think Stuart needs me on his team, 25 months before I retire, then I can help him get this stuff straight and get some tubes in the input stage.
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reeltrouble1 wrote: »Absolutely, one strange thing is this machine does not do DVD-A, I suppose Stuart's submission to the formats non-acceptance, too bad, but why not include it, there are folks with extensive DVD-A libraries who bought Meridan's prior machines for their reference player
RT1
The laser used in there is 3 color laser which can read DVD discs. But they need to charge about additional $10G for DVD-A playback capability with digital aritfacts removal from the upsampled high rez DVDs.
Speaking of 16Gs, I just saw a new 808.2 on Agon for about 8G yesterday, I think.
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtlplay&1252173871&/Meridian-808.2-Signature-Refer
But I am still taking a used Accuphase for 4K since I am Accuphase fan.reeltrouble1 wrote: »I think Stuart needs me on his team, 25 months before I retire, then I can help him get this stuff straight and get some tubes in the input stage.
RT1Yeah now there's a plan,after developing sophisticated DSP alorgithms to remove nasty digital artifacts then hide the benifits under the noise floor and 2nd order harmonic distortion of a tube:eek::D
Yippie! Removing one noise just to add another? :eek::DTrying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
All I know about this issue is what I read in the absolute sound articles, and the stereophile review. So I cannot "discuss" one way or the other the validity of the technology, which is why I will claim Swiss citizenship in this case.
However, from my perspective, the technology seems perfectly logical, and does not appear to be hype on Meridian's part. If Meridian said this CD player would cure impotence, and baldness, then I might suspect some hype is in play, but they simply say it will remove pre-ringing distortion no matter where it was introduced into the recording. I expect there is a technical way to differentiate this distortion from, for example, the “normal” notes of a Hendrix song. If there isn’t then they do have a problem.
Anyway, until the technology is available in a less than $3K standalone DAC, I will not be using it. So until then, I will stick with Mapleshade CD polishing technology to accomplish the same thing for only pennies a CD. :rolleyes:
No, not the technological hype. I think it's the marketing dept saying it can even make the CD sounds better than what is recorded on the CDs due to it can correct (remove digital artifacts?) error made in recording or mastering stage. My question is how does it know what should be in the CD and what is the digital noise? A DSP algorithm based on human perception of what a good sound should be? It's the deep stuff...Hopefully, they did an extensive research on this and explains a bit more about this technology they implemented. It's all about connecting the DOTs and I think DSP is far better utilized in other Industries.
http://news.aol.com/article/coldest-object-in-space/560013
Anyway, I am in the CD polishing camp and I just polished about 400CDs during the July 4th weekend. Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
well his last reference before this one was around 17K and it handled DVD-A so I suppose that makes some sort of sense for another 10G on this one.
I am extremely happy with the sound of my MF SACD-Kw player, an extreme machine for musicality. Does a superior job with redbook.
Mega you should be careful not to remove the wax from your ears.......doing so will let that gritty edged sand sound reach your drums, bending your tiny ear bones leaving you with an even worse tin-eared sand based malformity.
As far as hype if I were going to seriously consider this machine I would delve into the white papers Craven has published with Stuart. It is important to know Stuart is highly specialized in psychacoustics his knowledge in the area may even surpass anyone else on the planet, well maybe.
I did have something polished over the fourth, however, it was not a CD.
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reeltrouble1 wrote: »
Mega you should be careful not to remove the wax from your ears.......doing so will let that gritty edged sand sound reach your drums, bending your tiny ear bones leaving you with an even worse tin-eared sand based malformity.
As far as hype if I were going to seriously consider this machine I would delve into the white papers Craven has published with Stuart. It is important to know Stuart is highly specialized in psychacoustics his knowledge in the area may even surpass anyone else on the planet, well maybe.
RT1
I am not discrediting Stuart and he is one of the best pioneer in the use of DSP in audio engineering society. He also did some extensive research on the the use DSP for audio applications. I am not doubting all of that or the ingenuity of Bob Stuart. He is the best DSP guy for Audio out there period!
My carbon based tinned-ears functioning the same with wax buildup for the past 10 years!Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
