Three items to improve electronics and system

BlueFox

As we all know, the quality of our music systems depends on every part correctly working, and the better the quality of the parts, generally speaking, the better the sound. After I purchased my speaker cables, and digital IC, from Mapleshade I was curious if some of their other voodoo products really worked. Since the cables worked so great, I decided to give them a try.

So, when I ordered my HT cable upgrades, I purchased and tried these three Mapleshade products, and I have to say, for me, they work.

http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/audioproducts/mikrosmooth.php
http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/audioproducts/optrix.php
http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/audioproducts/silclear.php

The first two clean up CD/DVDs. Without a doubt, the picture is clearer, and the colors are more vibrant after using both. Also, the sound is crisper with the DVDs. I cannot say if the CD sound is also improved since I only listen to a CD once. Then if the CD is worth listening to again, it goes on my music server, which is where it will be replayed. However, the next product improved the music server sound.

The third product, Silclear, I used today on my two channel setup. Per the instructions I treated every male pin, and the outer ring of the female RCA, on all cables and equipment. Some of the XLR pins were a pain to cover since the male plug is on the piece of equipment. Basically, you have a tiny paint brush and apply the Silclear to each IC pin, power cord, speaker cable post, and speaker cable.

Anyway, after about an hour of treating each cable one at a time, I powered it up and could hear an improvement. Highs are clearer without being harsh, bass is more pronounced, and the sound is overall better.

The next test will be in my HT. I have new Mapleshade speaker cables, and analog ICs to install. When I do this upgrade I will also apply Silclear to each connection, and, hopefully, the picture and sound will be improved.

If you feel like experimenting, for a few dollars, these three tweaks appear to do the job.

nguyendot

I have to say I call shennigans on the video being clearer. The Error correcting technology on dvds allows all the picture, or none. It won't get clearer because the disc is easier to read or not. Either it reads it, or it doesnt.

Same as copying a dvd to hard drive. It won't be any clearer off the hard drive or off the disc, as long as it doesn't skip.

megasat16

I believe BlueFox is also an Engineer and he would know about ECC and CRC schemes for DVD, CDs and associated players.

BlueFox

megasat16 wrote: »

I believe BlueFox is also an Engineer and he would know about ECC and CRC schemes for DVD, CDs and associated players.

A software engineer, but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn, and this is the Internet, so I do know everything. :rolleyes:

Only kidding.

I sure think the picture is better. Maybe it is the placebo effect, but I do not think so. I have been using the DVDs I am most familiar with, and after cleaning them, the picture does look better.

Anyway, for as little as this cost it certainly will be in my toolbox until something better comes along.

ESavinon

All that matters is that it works for you.

nguyendot

I'd certainly like to know how it works to improve the picture throughout the data stream. I'm by no means well versed in it, and am open ears.

BlueFox

nguyendot wrote: »

I'd certainly like to know how it works to improve the picture throughout the data stream. I'm by no means well versed in it, and am open ears.

This is how the product is described on the above web-site. Take it with a grain of salt, but as much as we have learned over the years about audio jitter, I am inclined to believe it also applies to the digital video world.

"If the singer’s voice isn’t immediately clearer—like you’d pulled a blanket off your speakers—I’ll refund your money. I hear lots more: low instruments (bass, kick drums, tubas, etc.) sound more articulated, less boomy. Stringed instruments have more finger pluck, more oomph. You hear less digital harshness, the edginess that plagues CDs. For DVDs, video color and edge resolution improvements are equally dramatic.

Skeptical? It’s physics, not voodoo. A CD is just a mass-produced hunk of plastic. Under a microscope the surface is rough—the hills and valleys bend the laser beam reading the music data. When the beam is bent, each data bit is read too early or too late. That’s jitter. Jitter causes harsh, muddy sound. The solution is to flatten that roughness using our Mikro-Smooth’s sub-microscopic ceramic polishing particles (two ten-millionths of an inch, far finer than silver or auto polish)."

nguyendot

Isn't video time-aligned though? Isn't that why it is buffered?

WilliamM2

The hills and valleys bend the laser beam?

Jitter is not caused by read errors.

F1nut

BlueFox, thanks for posting your experiences with those products.

Jitter is not caused by read errors.

Jitter (timing error) comes in many forms, read errors certainly fall into one of those forms.

Retro152

Nice reviews Bluefox, seem's like their worth giving a shot.:D


Pat.

Hilbert

How about this:

The error correcting codes enable the player to guess intelligently about missing data. But if the disc is cleaner, the player can read more of the data, so less need to guess, better picture. An intelligent guess isn't necessarily an accurate guess.

hearingimpared

I love Mapleshade products. Thanks for the review BlueFox.

megasat16

BlueFox wrote: »

A software engineer, but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn, and this is the Internet, so I do know everything. :rolleyes:

Only kidding.

I sure think the picture is better. Maybe it is the placebo effect, but I do not think so. I have been using the DVDs I am most familiar with, and after cleaning them, the picture does look better.

Anyway, for as little as this cost it certainly will be in my toolbox until something better comes along.

I say the Internet is a ****! With so much information regardless of right or wrong, it makes everyone confuse about who they really are.

As far as Mapleshade products goes, there is a thin line between what actually works and what isn't (just like some overprice cables, dare I say it). But these are fairly cheap and wouldn't hurt to give a try. As Engineers, we are to figure out what works and what's BS.

But I am happy it works for you.

CuE0083

Appreciate the info!

greymatter

thx bluefox for the reviews

speakergeek

Snake oil...;)

F1nut

Tagger.....

imaginations run wild!

You wish you had one, you ignorant F.

hearingimpared

F1nut wrote: »

Tagger.....



You wish you had one, you ignorant F&*king coward.

I fixed it for you.

Retro152

F1nut wrote: »

Tagger.....



You wish you had one, you ignorant F.

Would love to know who does this, and string them up by their IC's.:rolleyes:



Pat.

BlueFox

Don’t pay any attention to the taggers. They are just like the graffiti “artists” who tag everything in sight. There is a bit of irony the CP function being abused is called “tags”.

Anyway, I was just reading the August 2009 edition of the absolute sound, and it has a couple of interesting product reviews that address and correct CD flaws. The point I am trying to make here is that CD/DVDs have flaws, and there are numerous ways to address these issues. The Mapleshade products are one way, and for the price do provide a level of audio/video improvement. Obviously, for only a few dollars, you are not going to get a quantum level of improvement, but if you are familiar with the look of a DVD, or the sound of your system, and the system is capable of resolving fine details then you should see/hear some improvements using the products. At least that is my experience.

Back to the absolute sound, on page 92, Robert Harley reviews the $16,000 Meridian 808.2 Signature Reference CD Player (watch out Emo). This player removes a digital artifact known as pre-ringing, which results from digital filters. Interestingly, this distortion occurs both before and after the actual sound being reproduced. Anyway, the gist of it is the quality of CD sound takes a huge leap forward with this technology. You need to read the article to get all the details. Personally, I cannot wait until it is available in a standalone DAC.

The second item, on page 50, is the $20,000 (yikes!) Weiss Engineering Jason CD transport (no DAC). In addition to being a transport, the Jason can also up sample the CD data stream before it is feed to an external DAC. To make a long story short, the reviewer, Dick Olsher, was skeptical that a CD transport would affect the sound to the DAC, but now he is convinced that it can.

It would have been an interesting test to run the output of the $20,000 Jason into the digital input of the $16,000 Meridian 808.2, and listen to that combination. That should be the best of both worlds, a primo transport with a great DAC.

F1nut

Anyway, the gist of it is the quality of CD sound takes a huge leap forward with this technology. You need to read the article to get all the details.

I read it, twice and I'll reserve final judgement until I hear one, but right now my thoughts are summed up well by this comment I read on another forum. "The only "pre-ringing" they're trying to eliminate is the little bell that goes off in your head when you hear "absolute" nonsense." There are plenty of absolutely excellent sounding CDP's on the market right now for far less money and when you factor in that many of them offer excellent SACD playback as well, which Meridan does not offer, it makes the Meridan a hard pill to swallow.

F1nut

I spelled Meridian incorrectly in my post above, sorry about that.

Some additional info (hype),

a filter with ‘apodizing-like’ qualities (you can’t do a true apodizing filter for 44.1kHz sampling) – and its first appearance is in the 808.2. It needs significant DSP to deliver, using much of the power of the player’s 150MIPS main processor. This filter system is so effective that it can even correct errors made in the recording or mastering stage – CDs played back on the 808.2 can sound even better than they did in the studio!

Better than they did in the studio!?! Even the superior SACD format nor any of the SACD player manufacturers make that claim.

BlueFox

I am not going to argue over the Meridian 808, and whether it works as advertised or not. I was only relaying what the review said. However, the review, along with the follow up interview with Meridian co-founder, Bob Stuart, on page 96, makes a lot of technical sense, at least to me.

I seriously doubt if technology has come close yet to extracting the best sound possible from a CD, and I believe there is still a lot of room for improvement. Granted, CDs do sound good now, but that does not mean they cannot sound better. I agree $16K is a steep price, but we all know the price curve for technological innovation. If it works as good as they claim, then others will duplicate the technology for a lot less in the near future. When I can get it in an external DAC for $3K or less, then I will be able to make my own decision if it works or not.

F1nut

I'm not arguing, just voicing my thoughts and an obvious bit of hype, which really puts me off to the whole idea. For example, how does Meridian know what is an error and what was done intentionally in the recording or mastering stage since they actually had no part of it?

pearsall001

I can attest to the above mentioned Mapleshade products. A small financial investment that definetely provided an improved playback scenerio. The owner might seem like a nut case to some, but I feel he really has a passion for audio & doesn't pull any punches with his audio beliefs & product line. Try them & hear for yourself.

olilugo

BlueFox wrote: »

Don’t pay any attention to the taggers. They are just like the graffiti “artists” who tag everything in sight. There is a bit of irony the CP function being abused is called “tags”.

Anyway, I was just reading the August 2009 edition of the absolute sound, and it has a couple of interesting product reviews that address and correct CD flaws. The point I am trying to make here is that CD/DVDs have flaws, and there are numerous ways to address these issues. The Mapleshade products are one way, and for the price do provide a level of audio/video improvement. Obviously, for only a few dollars, you are not going to get a quantum level of improvement, but if you are familiar with the look of a DVD, or the sound of your system, and the system is capable of resolving fine details then you should see/hear some improvements using the products. At least that is my experience.

Back to the absolute sound, on page 92, Robert Harley reviews the $16,000 Meridian 808.2 Signature Reference CD Player (watch out Emo). This player removes a digital artifact known as pre-ringing, which results from digital filters. Interestingly, this distortion occurs both before and after the actual sound being reproduced. Anyway, the gist of it is the quality of CD sound takes a huge leap forward with this technology. You need to read the article to get all the details. Personally, I cannot wait until it is available in a standalone DAC.

The second item, on page 50, is the $20,000 (yikes!) Weiss Engineering Jason CD transport (no DAC). In addition to being a transport, the Jason can also up sample the CD data stream before it is feed to an external DAC. To make a long story short, the reviewer, Dick Olsher, was skeptical that a CD transport would affect the sound to the DAC, but now he is convinced that it can.

It would have been an interesting test to run the output of the $20,000 Jason into the digital input of the $16,000 Meridian 808.2, and listen to that combination. That should be the best of both worlds, a primo transport with a great DAC.

Now this is amazing. 16K cd player, 20K cd player without a DAC plus a 16K meridian 808.2. I can not even image the rest of the system. But I keep on thinking all these very expensive components just to play a 10-20 dollar CD.

I guess I respect the taste and dedication to get the best experience. But I continue to be mind bugled at such an expensive approach to play something that for the most part was mastered without regards to be the best music possible.

Blue fox, thank for the information, I know you are just the messenger.

AudioGenics

...secret ingredients...

megasat16

joseph.v.chen wrote: »

...secret ingredients...

JVC, it would be family owned recipe made from secret ingredients of water, denatured alcohol and soaps mixed in an evaporator at the temp of 400 deg C and atmosphere pressure 10 times greater than that of our normal environment.

Just Kidding there. Do not take it seriously! I think these mapleshade products worth to give a try since they are fairly cheap and even cheaper than monster product.

But I agree with what F1 said. How would the CD player knows what should be in the recording and what's missing from the recording? Meridian claim is definitely a Big Hard Pill to swallow.

If they think they can add extra information to a CD or DVD since motion pictures industry and computer graphics companies have ability to interpolate extra pixels to enhance the pictures (pretty sucks by the way), I think they are putting the lube in the wrong place. 150MIPs of computing power without a purpose in a CD player a joke as well.

I know you are the messenger. But I am just saying they are a bit out of their head saying crap like this.

Polkitup2

Here's a free tweak from avguide.com - rub your CDs on your forehead before you play them. Apparently the oil on your face makes the perfect CD surface treament fluid. :rolleyes:

Tip# 18 at: http://www.avguide.com/forums/22-tips-obtain-better-sound-high-end-audio-system

LessisNevermore

megasat16 wrote: »

But I agree with what F1 said. How would the CD player knows what should be in the recording and what's missing from the recording? Meridian claim is definitely a Big Hard Pill to swallow.

If they think they can add extra information to a CD or DVD since motion pictures industry and computer graphics companies have ability to interpolate extra pixels to enhance the pictures (pretty sucks by the way), I think they are putting the lube in the wrong place. 150MIPs of computing power without a purpose in a CD player a joke as well.

I know you are the messenger. But I am just saying they are a bit out of their head saying crap like this.

I found issue with a couple of the other products as well.
The maple audio rack being hailed for it's non-resonating properties, yet on the same page, the solid maple component platforms lending the wood tones to improve sound over MDF and other materials.

I'll go ahead and call BS on the audio rack being non-resonant. I build drums out of maple. It's very resonant.

If the maple can impart it's tone into an electrical signal, the component is behaving as a microphone. I could possibly see this with a TT, (feedback) but if a component could pick up wood resonance, it could pick up all other vibrations, and feedback as well.

The silver contact enhancer looks suspiciously like an anti-seize compound. (which is conductive, but to what degree, I don't know)