Which AMP is best for my situation?

Schwendy

Decided that I definitely need an amp. I have an Onkyo TX-SR876 receiver, Polk RTiA7 front, LSiC center and 4 FXiA4 surrounds and a powered DSW micro sub. I feel like I have plenty of volume/power for movies but not for music. My recvr is 140w per channel I think.

Am I better off buying a new Emotiva 3 or 5 channel amp rated at 200w per channel at 8ohm? Or a used 5 channel Adcom for the same general cost but only 130 - 150w? The Adcom 130w is THX certified and the 150w doesn't seem to be nor do the Emotiva's. How important is that? For some reason the 7 channel Emotiva is cheaper than the 5 channel amp but lower power. I am looking at the $600 to $800 range and can't afford $2-3,000 for an amp.

cnh

If you're concerned about music...just buy a good 2 channel amp and run your fronts off it--if you have good tower full-range fronts?. Emotiva used to have a 2 channel that was more musical, I think? But it's gone. Most of their stuff is really HT at this point.

So go out and listen to some 2 channel power houses....Carver, Adcom, Parasound, Rotel, B&K, Cambridge Audio and so on. Look on the 'used' market because for 600 or less you could get a nice 200-250 watt/channel--even a lot less than that!

cnh

NewHTguy

I had a set-up that was similar to yours (prior to me Lsi 25s I had Rti10s) and I did exactly what CNH suggested. Some people will tell you to buy a five channel amp but that would be overkill in my opinion. No need to rush though. Take your time and look for the right deal. Audioadvisor dot com has some good open box and demo deal. I bought my Parasound there.

mantis

You don't need a external amp with your setup. You need to calibrate correctly. Set all your speakers to smal and allow the sub to do everything under 80hz. this will free up some current from your receiver and gain some dynamic range you will.

NewHTguy

What Mantis said is at least worth trying. Of course, if you want to play music in pure audio, your sub won't operate and therefore will not be able to take the strain off your fronts. You may also try bi-amping the fronts, as long as your rear channels are not being used. It doesn't cost anything except for some speaker wire and may provide just a little power boost when in pure audio mode.

cfrizz

There is no such thing as overkill in power. I am one who will tell you to get the XPA 5 channel Emo & don't look back.

All of your speakers will benefit from it. Also, you will be all set in the future if you decide to upgrade all the rest of your speakers to the LSI series.

But do calibrate your speakers & set them to small so that the sub does the grunt work.

daboyz

Sorry Cathy but I'm going to disagree with you on this one. The Emo for 2ch is crapola,IMHO of course. It's fine for HT but that's it. I would go with a good 2ch amp and calibrate the rest.

Yes,I've heard the Emo so I'm not bashing.

mantis

My question is why do you think you need a external amp? You have 140 watts inside of clean nice power that will rock those Rtia speakers nicely.

Now if you don't like the sound quality, Onkyo's tend to be thin up top and bright. I don't care for there sound quality. Shrill oif you will. this maybe why you don't like your sound quality/ music ability. Also could be the source and cables. Or maybe your room you have your speakers placed poorly.

To many factors before you just run out and stick a amp in the system. Your sound quality will not change. Adding power amps do not help unless your receiver can not supply enough power to the given speakers, your case it can.

Calibration and proper setup is all you need. If you had a professional come over, he/she would set your system straight.

Dan

Schwendy

Well, I tried. Think I've got it all messed up now. I looked in the menu to change all the speakers to small and couldn't find it! I have an older Onkyo in another room and it's easy to find the small/large setting on the menu but I don't see it on the TX-876. Does the Audessey mic set up do that automatically? I set the recvr to 4ohms and was told to set the center to 80hz. The 80hz setting for each speaker has (THX) next to it and suggests that if my speakers are THX certified which I don't think the Polk RTiA7's or FXiA4's are. So, I set the center to 80 the fronts to 40 and the surrounds to 70. Maybe I should run the Audessey setup again and leave it alone. Trying to find the best compromise between music and movies and heard good things about Emotiva and the price is right so I was really considering the XPA 3 or XPA 5. I'd say i'm 70% movie and music video cd listener so even if it's not as good as an expensive 2 channel amp wouldn't this be an okay way to go? Don't want to bridge or bi-amp the speakers since everything's in the ceiling, I have no experience and want to free up the recvr as much as possible. Seems like there is a lot of base now. What setting do I put the base on? Have it at 90 degree setting now and turned vol. down a little.

cnh

mantis wrote: »

My question is why do you think you need a external amp? You have 140 watts inside of clean nice power that will rock those Rtia speakers nicely.

Now if you don't like the sound quality, Onkyo's tend to be thin up top and bright. I don't care for there sound quality. Shrill oif you will. this maybe why you don't like your sound quality/ music ability. Also could be the source and cables. Or maybe your room you have your speakers placed poorly.

To many factors before you just run out and stick a amp in the system. Your sound quality will not change. Adding power amps do not help unless your receiver can not supply enough power to the given speakers, your case it can.

Calibration and proper setup is all you need. If you had a professional come over, he/she would set your system straight.

Dan

I have to agree some here...Bench tests on that Onkyo do show that it can actually put that 140 watts out...it has a huge EL transformer in there...makes up a lot of its weight...and a high current design.

But when I compare my Onkyo to my Denon...I find the Denon brighter on highs! And the Onkyo 'warmer'. To my ears only H/Ks are warmer...but then again I don't run Rtis. I can believe the Onkyo might sound bright with that but so would almost any AVR. Those tweeters are more the culprit.

Maybe your RTI-A7s are the problem! I find the a9s I've heard less harsh and better for music! And have read reviews of owners who love the Onkyo 87x series with the RTI-A9s up front.

cnh

Schwendy

Mantis, it does get loud but seems like it could be more for music. I'm borderline with the volume level but to get there the volume is pretty close to max and I don't like running it like that. I do have fans on the recvr and cabinet and it's never gone into protection mode. My cables are decent, not the best but at least HDMI, Optical and a few Monster cables thrown in. Yes, I know Monster cables suck but I had them in my box o wires. I was talked into 16 guage speaker wire though and shoulda gone with 14ga. My theory on the 140 watts is similar to what the Emotiva web site says in that you aren't REALLY getting that much and an amp would be dedicating more all the time. This is inexperience talking though. There's a franchise type home theater store near me and they offer set up/calibration but I think it's $140 if I remember. I re did all the plumbing in my house so I should be able to figure this out!

LessisNevermore

daboyz wrote: »

Sorry Cathy but I'm going to disagree with you on this one. The Emo for 2ch is crapola,IMHO of course. It's fine for HT but that's it. I would go with a good 2ch amp and calibrate the rest.

Yes,I've heard the Emo so I'm not bashing.

Sorry Dave, I'm going to disagree with you, since it was my amp. There is nothing wrong with it for two channel. You heard it with a pre that was a bad match, and continually appraise it based on that. Symmetry, remember? In my rig, it sounds fantastic. And yes, you are bashing.

NewHTguy

cnh wrote: »

I have to agree some here...Bench tests on that Onkyo do show that it can actually put that 140 watts out...it has a huge EL transformer in there...makes up a lot of its weight...and a high current design.

Actually, I believe the Onk can put out more like 150+ watts when driving only two channels, which is the relevant scenario here.

Having owned the Rti 10s, I can say that (i) I loved them for HT, but (ii) think they have their limits when it comes to music.

cfrizz

You guys are just focusing on the 2 channel aspect & I'm looking at the WHOLE system. Getting a powerful 5 channel amp will take care of both 2 channel & HT needs. It's just a matter of getting the right amp.

He obviously doesn't have a lot of coin to drop into this, so that usually will put the Emo at the top of the list if purchasing new.

Now if he wants to check out Audiogon for a Parasound, Rotel, Sunfire, etc. he might get lucky within his price range, but I doubt it.

PS Schwendy, THX cert is just a marketing ploy, don't let that factor into your decision on an amp.

Oh Yeah WELCOME TO CLUB POLK & HAPPY 4TH OF JULY!

NewHTguy

Cfrizz,
You're correct that I was focussing on the two-channel. The reason is that OP seems happy with HT.

I would understand your recommendation for a five channel amp if the OP were starting from scratch, or if s/he were using a low powered AVR. But that is not the case. Once you add a separate two-channel amp into the system, all the AVR has to do is push a center and 4 fxia4s. Do you really think an Onk 876 is not up to the task? Sure, if the five-channel amp were close to the same price then why not. However, it seems like a waste of money to me given (a) OP is already happy with HT, and (b) OP has one of the most powerful AVRs out there. Please explain the flaw in my thinking.

reeltrouble1

Your Oinker is not primarily designed to do music, it is amongst the mundane and quite ordinary audio products whom place the emphasis on convenience but compromise sound quality, its full of signal degrading devices, for music either a seperate rig, or if not possible a pre-amp with an HT by-pass and an amplifier would serve you well and open the hobby up to you. If budget makes this impossible then I would recommend you set it as a goal, with patience pieces can be collected at bargain prices on the Audiogon site.

RT1

cfrizz

He asked about a 3-5 channel amp so I gave him recc. for a 5 channel amp.

I believe in doing it once & doing it right the first time around. I also have no faith in any claims that these comps make as far as the wpc statements. The plain fact is that a separate amp will always trump receivers.

I also did the whole 2 channel, then a mono for my center. I should have just bitten the bullet & gotten a 5 channel amp to begin with.

And believe me, the center & surrounds will benefit from the separate amplification as well. Mine showed a tremendous improvement when I got the 5 channel amp.

If he is willing and able to spend the money to amp all of his speakers at once, why should we try to talk him out of it?

With an XPA 5 channel amp, he won't have to worry about upgrading his amp for years to come, and he will be all set to upgrade his speakers & go to all separates in the future.

NewHTguy wrote: »

Cfrizz,
You're correct that I was focussing on the two-channel. The reason is that OP seems happy with HT.

I would understand your recommendation for a five channel amp if the OP were starting from scratch, or if s/he were using a low powered AVR. But that is not the case. Once you add a separate two-channel amp into the system, all the AVR has to do is push a center and 4 fxia4s. Do you really think an Onk 876 is not up to the task? Sure, if the five-channel amp were close to the same price then why not. However, it seems like a waste of money to me given (a) OP is already happy with HT, and (b) OP has one of the most powerful AVRs out there. Please explain the flaw in my thinking.

NewHTguy

cfrizz wrote: »

He asked about a 3-5 channel amp so I gave him recc. for a 5 channel amp.

I believe in doing it once & doing it right the first time around. I also have no faith in any claims that these comps make as far as the wpc statements. The plain fact is that a separate amp will always trump receivers.

I also did the whole 2 channel, then a mono for my center. I should have just bitten the bullet & gotten a 5 channel amp to begin with.

And believe me, the center & surrounds will benefit from the separate amplification as well. Mine showed a tremendous improvement when I got the 5 channel amp.

If he is willing and able to spend the money to amp all of his speakers at once, why should we try to talk him out of it?

With an XPA 5 channel amp, he won't have to worry about upgrading his amp for years to come, and he will be all set to upgrade his speakers & go to all separates in the future.

Thank you for taking the time to explain. When I added my two channel the sound improved, but it was far from obvious on some music and only with critical listening. Someday I may appreciate your opinion. However, right now I doubt I would care about having 200 wpc for an fxia4. Part of my thinking was that s/he could take my two-channel approach first and, if that is not good enough, just add a five channel down the road when he follws RT's advice and moves to separates.