SDA 1B....$500 too much?

Marty913

jimbo1421 wrote: »

edited
Can anyone recommend a cheap material to experiment with? Finger foam, maybe?
edited
Jim

Jim, you might try this.

http://www.atsacoustics.com/item--Owens-Corning-703-Case-of-6--1004.html

mmadden28

heiney9 wrote: »

Make sure nothing is between the speakers, atleast at the main driver level so the love seat has to go.

Or at least make sure that the front of the SDA's extend in front (by a couple inches?) of the plane of whatever is between right???

inspiredsports

mmadden28 wrote: »

Or at least make sure that the front of the SDA's extend in front (by a couple inches?) of the plane of whatever is between right???

But then they would be too far from the back wall and the bass would drop off dramatically.

Jimbo, Congrats on the 1B's . . . and nice floorplan drawings! What software is that?

mmadden28

mmadden28 wrote: »

Or at least make sure that the front of the SDA's extend in front (by a couple inches?) of the plane of whatever is between right???

inspiredsports wrote: »

But then they would be too far from the back wall and the bass would drop off dramatically.

In the situation with the loveseat yes, but I meant in general. I would imagine many have there rig or entertainment center (for HT) setup between the speakers, no?

jimbo1421

inspiredsports wrote: »

Jimbo, Congrats on the 1B's . . . and nice floorplan drawings! What software is that?

Thanks, IS. I use VectorWorks.

http://www.nemetschek.net/

Jim

jimbo1421

Lasareath wrote: »

Jimbo, I think you should set them up like this:



Sal

Hi Sal,
Thanks so much for taking the time to edit my drawing.

If I place the left SDA where you show it, I have about 2'-4" to the side wall. Holding the SDA tight to the fireplace leaves 2'-8". Is that too little space?

I will be doing some more layouts later today which I will post.

Thanks again,

Jim

PS: What did you use to edit the PDF?

jimbo1421

george daniel wrote: »

jumping in kinda late,, but I'd move the blue thing and close the door at the bottom of the schem. Good luck and enjoy.

heiney9 wrote: »

Make sure nothing is between the speakers, atleast at the main driver level so the love seat has to go.

Hi George, heiney
The door was closed (as shown it is just an architectural convention that shows the swing of the door). Maybe I should try it open. The neighbors probably won't mind during the day. I moved the blue love seat out of there and that helped boost the phantom center a bit but not enough. The love seat is sort of a modern Mission Style, mostly open between the arm rest and the seat and open below the seat frame. The SDAs are about 4" in front of the back of the love seat.

Whatever I do, I think I will have to rearrange furniture when company comes to visit.

Jim

jimbo1421

Hello again.

I have attached a 3 page PDF with new floor plans for my audio/video setup. The main problem that I hear is a weak phantom center on some recordings. A second problem occurs in some recordings with higher than usual reverb, either natural or engineered. The effect gets kind of muddy. I wonder if this is a crossover issue.

Plan 1 is the current setup which I have filled in with the TV/SurroundBar in the NE corner. Main problem here is the record cabinet in the NW corner. It presents a solid wall-like object 18" away from the SDA which I believe limits the SDA sound stage on the right. I think I need to move the record cabinet elsewhere and just have a shelf for components there. The left side is OK but improves if I open the front door all the way; less reflection, I think. I tried moving the blue love seat out of there and this improved the center a bit, but not enough.

Alternate Plan 2 integrates 2 channel and 5.0 surround using my Monitor 10s for surrounds. I also have a pair of Monitor 7As which could also be surrounds instead of the 10s. This arrangement offers the best surround sound. I like that components can be used for multiple purposes in this setup, like a Blu-Ray can be used for CDs as well. I will need to upgrade the electrical circuit there from the 1930s vintage 15 amp fused circuit. I can extend a circuit I had installed last year to pick up those outlets. I don't like the TV blocking the front window, nor do I like putting expensive electronics on display there; they tempt the devil with ideas of burglary. The laptop is on a gate leg table which is pretty open below, so I don't think it will compromise the right side.

Alternate Plan 3 keeps separate two channel and SurroundBar systems and uses Lasareath's layout. This layout requires the least rearrangement when company arrives. It puts the SDAs on the long wall with more space between, but sacrifices 4" of side clearance on the left. The SurroundBar doesn't function as well in the corner.

Which of these arrangements, if any, offers solutions to the weak phantom center and reverb problem? Is reverb a general problem with SDAs? Are there any other problems that I haven't dealt with here (other than problems that only a real estate agent could solve)?

Thanks for your time,

Jim

F1nut

Jim,

I think Plan 2 would be the best you're going to manage with the room.

As for the recessed vocals, it's been my experience that it's a characteristic of the SL2000 based SDA's. For example, I noticed the same issue with a stock pair of CRS+'s. I upgraded the crossovers and added RD0194-1 tweeters and while that netted a vast improvement, the vocal issue remained. I then upgraded the crossovers to TL status in order to use the RD0198-1 tweeters. That solved the vocal issue and netted further improvements to the overall sound.

jimbo1421

F1nut wrote: »

Jim,

I think Plan 2 would be the best you're going to manage with the room.

As for the recessed vocals, it's been my experience that it's a characteristic of the SL2000 based SDA's. For example, I noticed the same issue with a stock pair of CRS+'s. I upgraded the crossovers and added RD0194-1 tweeters and while that netted a vast improvement, the vocal issue remained. I then upgraded the crossovers to TL status in order to use the RD0198-1 tweeters. That solved the vocal issue and netted further improvements to the overall sound.

Thanks for your comments F1. Do you say that Plan 2 is best because of the 2'-8" left side clearance shown on Plan 3 or for other reasons?

What would it take to upgrade the crossovers to TL status? I don't know what that means.

Jim

messiah

I think Plan 2 would be the best you're going to manage with the room.

+1:)

Congrats on the find at a reasonable price.

zarrdoss

Go for plan 2

jimbo1421

I am curious why Plan 2 is getting the most support. Obviously Plan 2 is the better HT setup, but when watching movies with 5.1 surround, that is only part of a larger production that includes visuals, plot, subtext, acting performance, etc. For this I am satisfied with the SurroundBar. But for pure music listening, where my mind is focused on the music, I am partial to Plan 3, except for the left side clearance issue. Elsewhere I have read that short wall is best for HT, long wall is best for 2 channel music. I will give that a try soon.

Jim

zarrdoss

plan 3 could work.

F1nut

jimbo1421 wrote: »

Thanks for your comments F1. Do you say that Plan 2 is best because of the 2'-8" left side clearance shown on Plan 3 or for other reasons?

What would it take to upgrade the crossovers to TL status? I don't know what that means.

Jim

Yes, that's part of it. With Plan 3 the balance of the soundstage will never be right and you'll have reflection issues with both 2 channel and HT. At least with Plan 2 the spacing will be even and should result in the best possible sound for both 2 channel and HT.

The TL series was Polk's last generation of SDA's and used the SL3000 tweeter with a high frequency circuit designed for it. Some of the SL2000 based SDA's can be upgraded to take advantage of the TL circuit design.

F1nut

Jim, don't worry about upgrading anything right now. Get your room situation taken care of first.

jimbo1421

F1nut wrote: »

Jim, don't worry about upgrading anything right now. Get your room situation taken care of first.

You're right F1. I can rearrange the furniture for free. Free is good, this week at least. Usually free is the enemy of the good.

Meanwhile, I unplugged the IC cable to see how the center performed without SDA. It works as expected; there is plenty of volume to vocals. But while disconnecting and reconnecting the IC I realized that the right connection slides in and out very easily. Too easily. By comparison the left side takes very firm pressure to push the connector home. Could a poor IC connection cause the weak center and reverb problems I described above? Even if it doesn't, it will need to be fixed. How do I fix it?

Jim

jimbo1421

jimbo1421 wrote: »

You're right F1. I can rearrange the furniture for free. Free is good, this week at least. Usually free is the enemy of the good.

Meanwhile, I unplugged the IC cable to see how the center performed without SDA. It works as expected; there is plenty of volume to vocals. But while disconnecting and reconnecting the IC I realized that the right connection slides in and out very easily. Too easily. By comparison the left side takes very firm pressure to push the connector home. Could a poor IC connection cause the weak center and reverb problems I described above? Even if it doesn't, it will need to be fixed. How do I fix it?

Jim

Fixed it. The black plastic shell had a piece cracked off it and the prongs were spread. I pinched the prongs back into position for a tight fit and Super Glued the broken piece. Put it back together and it works for now. I also ordered 2 new sets of plugs and sockets from Allied Electronics, one to replace and one for a spare.

http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?SKU=7503001&MPN=S-302-AB#tab=Specs
and
http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?SKU=7503200&MPN=P-302-CCT

Before I get to rearranging everything to get a good sound stage, I decided I should make sure all the drivers are functioning properly and in phase. As I mentioned I had been having trouble with diminished center vocals and I have been hearing this on more recordings as I run iTunes shuffled, during the day. Unplugging the interconnect brings the center up again. Aside from removing the driver and just listening to it by itself, what else should I check for, impedance? My cheapie multimeter is only calibrated in ohms x 1000, too high to read 4 or 8 ohms. Any recommendations for an inexpensive multimeter that will serve me better for this hobby? What values should I look for on the SL2000 and MW 6509? I turned up a thread with this information while searching for something else, but now I can't find it again.

Thanks again,
Jim

F1nut

Sorry, I missed your previous thread, but I'm glad you found a solution.

Unplugging the interconnect brings the center up again.

I dunno, either something is out of phase or it's the room. I don't know what the values should be on those. Maybe test them all and see if one is off. Rat Shack will probably have a meter that's not too expensive.

Tony M

Lowes Home Improvement store has some multimeters discounted pretty heavy right now.

My mw-6509's had an ohm rating of 8 ohms.

Good luck too

jimbo1421

Hello,

I am resurrecting this thread with my new attempt to integrate my SDA-1B with a two channel system and work around this living room's obstructions. I thought I would run it by you guys before I tear up my living room again. You can find earlier layouts in the posts above.

Now, with the right speaker placed tight to the short wall and flush with its edge, there is plenty of space to either side of the speakers counting the 14 feet length of the dining room. Only problem is that I now have 19" behind the SDAs. Would that be bad for base response? Could I solve that problem by placing a pair of movable acoustic panels behind the speakers, say 24" wide by 44" tall?

jimbo1421

Got distracted.

Jim

lightman1

leroyjr1 wrote: »

$500 is waaaaay too high for some 1b's.

+10....

bluecomet

Somebody just sold a nice pair of SDA 1B's for $480.00 on ebay. I guess they are worth what someone is willing to pay. To me, if I what them and they are in driving distance which saves on shipping, they may be worth it. To audition them is also a big plus.

jimbo1421

Perhaps I should have started a new thread. I bought these a year ago ($375) and have been trying to find a good place for them. See posts #54 & 55.

Jim

jimbo1421

Anyone?

Jim

thsmith

jimbo1421 wrote: »

Hello,

I am resurrecting this thread with my new attempt to integrate my SDA-1B with a two channel system and work around this living room's obstructions. I thought I would run it by you guys before I tear up my living room again. You can find earlier layouts in the posts above.

Now, with the right speaker placed tight to the short wall and flush with its edge, there is plenty of space to either side of the speakers counting the 14 feet length of the dining room. Only problem is that I now have 19" behind the SDAs. Would that be bad for base response? Could I solve that problem by placing a pair of movable acoustic panels behind the speakers, say 24" wide by 44" tall?

I have my 1Cs more than 19" from rear wall because I have to bring the 1Cs about 2" in front of my Mits 73" CRTRP HDTV, TV itself is 24" so mine are like 26".

I have plenty of bass but I do have equal side wall distance of 34".

I would try pulling the speakers forward of the side wall on the right by at least an inch.

I have not read all you post on this subject and I am sure you know this but your room is not ideal for SDAs or at least in current configuration.

jimbo1421

thsmith wrote: »

I have my 1Cs more than 19" from rear wall because I have to bring the 1Cs about 2" in front of my Mits 73" CRTRP HDTV, TV itself is 24" so mine are like 26".

I have plenty of bass but I do have equal side wall distance of 34".

I should note that the red area to the left of the speaker is a 6" high raised hearth; the grey details are the fireplace (horizontal section view). So I have 9'-6" space to the left wall and about 14'-0" to the right wall at the end of the adjacent dining room (off the drawing). Will the bump out of the fireplace disrupt the SDA imaging?

thsmith wrote: »

I would try pulling the speakers forward of the side wall on the right by at least an inch.

I have not read all you post on this subject and I am sure you know this but your room is not ideal for SDAs or at least in current configuration.

The house was built in 1924. I think an Atwater Kent would work well to the right of the fireplace.

Jim