SDA 1B....$500 too much?

jimbo1421

I am going to listen to a pair of SDA 1Bs shortly. They have the original SL2000 tweeters arranged vertically. Also with the oak top. Does the vertical arrangement mean that only the mid woofers carry the SDA effect? I recall a thread saying that the horizontal tweeter configuration was the one that had both tweeter and mid woofer participating in the SDA and that the MW SDA alone was better.

Is $500 like a top price in pristine condition. Is $350-400 more in line with the market?

Jim

cnh

I'm pretty sure that's right....had to revise there Nadams has 2s and they have the horizontal tweeters you mention.

500 is too much! 350 might be a good price or less!


cnh

leroyjr1

$500 is waaaaay too high for some 1b's.

heiney9

If they have oak end caps they are 1C's and no $500 isn;t too much for 1C's in good condition and local pick up.

I wouldn't pay more than $400 for a really good pair of 1B's. that I could see and hear before I bought

H9

P.s. If they are 1B's offer $350 and see where it goes. The local pick-up/demo is worth a little extra money because you know exactly what you are getting.

jimbo1421

heiney9 wrote: »

If they have oak end caps they are 1C's and no $500 isn;t too much for 1C's in good condition and local pick up.

I wouldn't pay more than $400 for a really good pair of 1B's. that I could see and hear before I bought

H9

P.s. If they are 1B's offer $350 and see where it goes. The local pick-up/demo is worth a little extra money because you know exactly what you are getting.

Here are some pics. Are they 1Bs or 1Cs?

heiney9

Those are 1C's and if they are in good cond. $500 isn;t unreasonable.....a little high but not unreasonable. Again, local pick-up and demo is worth a little higher price in the end.

H9

leroyjr1

1C's go get them!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Definately worth $500 if they are in great shape and they're local. I'd offer him $400-450 and see what he says. Can't hurt to try. Does he have The IC cable?

BrettT1

I paid a helluva lot more for my 1Cs.. and wouldn't sell them, ever. Just sayin.

jimbo1421

leroyjr1 wrote: »

1C's go get them!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Definately worth $500 if they are in great shape and they're local. I'd offer him $400-450 and see what he says. Can't hurt to try. Does he have The IC cable?

No matter what, I can always count on you guys to egg me on! I'll report back in a couple of hours.

Jim

jimbo1421

I'm back. The picture was the wrong one. They are SDA 1Bs (no caps). the drivers appear to be in excellent shape and clean. There is a water mark on the top left and one grill has a small bit of unknown crud on it. They could stand to be refinished as the lacquer has crinkled a bit with age. They have the SL2000 tweeters (Silver Coil Dome) which don't agree with me, so that adds $200 to the cost.

I listened for 45 minutes to a variety of music from my laptop plugged into my power amp which I brought with me. A Chopin CD, a bit of Mozart, and some Celtic music all sounded good and detailed, but I was not really sure if I was understanding the SDA effect, this being my first experience with SDAs. Still, I was impressed, until I put on Bob Dylan's Blood on the Tracks CD. It was awful. Dylan's vocals receded into the background and there was a reverb effect that overwhelmed everything. This is an album that I have always loved and sounds fine with the same amp and Monitor 10s. I don't understand what went wrong. Room effects could account for some of it. We were in a large high ceilinged room with tile floors and not much sound deadening materials. There is a bit of reverb on the recording so I wonder if the SDA effect plays havoc with the sound effects that are intended for conventional stereo. I should have unplugged the interconnect, but didn't think of it at the time. Can anyone comment on this?

I made an offer and he made a counteroffer. I said I would sleep on it. With the exception of possibly overproduced recordings I did like the sound. I am not sure that I liked them that much more than my Monitor 10s. If they bring out all the faults in my audio sources to an unpleasant degree then maybe I would get more bang for my audio dollar by improving my sources, like by getting a record cleaning machine or a good CD player. But then I think that SDAs aren't too common in these parts and that I should not just grab them but lunge for them with both hands.

Thanks for reading all this,

Jim

cnh

That's funny because the Pics your post look like they do have caps? Are the pics not representative of the speaker.

I'm no expert on the SDA effect. But it's really easy to screw it up...did he have a manual?

The speakers need to have ABSOLUTELY NO TOE-IN, they must be perfectly aligned with each other--exact same distance from the back wall....about 6" from it and you need about 8 feet between them and 3 feet of space from each side wall. You should then sit about the same distance away...at least 8 feet or so away....dead center between the speakers. It's quite possible that violating any of these general stats will cause some of the effects you're describing. But once PROPERLY set up...you should be fine.

The SL2000s will be a little bright but the RDO replacements will take care of that...and the room will also affect that as well as the AMP!

What I don't understand is that you say having SL2000s adds 200 bucks? Why would that be the case...the SL2000 is widely considered inferior to the RDO-194 replacements so that having RDOs already in would add value rather than having the original tweeter?

I'd stay firm at 350 and buy if you can get that!

cnh

jimbo1421

cnh wrote: »

That's funny because the Pics your post look like they do have caps? Are the pics not representative of the speaker.

I'm no expert on the SDA effect. But it's really easy to screw it up...did he have a manual?

The speakers need to have ABSOLUTELY NO TOE-IN, they must be perfectly aligned with each other--exact same distance from the back wall....about 6" from it and you need about 8 feet between them and 3 feet of space from each side wall. You should then sit about the same distance away...at least 8 feet or so away....dead center between the speakers. It's quite possible that violating any of these general stats will cause some of the effects you're describing. But once PROPERLY set up...you should be fine.

The SL2000s will be a little bright but the RDO replacements will take care of that...and the room will also affect that as well as the AMP!

What I don't understand is that you say having SL2000s adds 200 bucks? Why would that be the case...the SL2000 is widely considered inferior to the RDO-194 replacements so that having RDOs already in would add value rather than having the original tweeter?

I'd stay firm at 350 and buy if you can get that!

cnh

I meant to write that changing out the SL2000s to RDO-194s will add $200 to my cost. As for the pictures, I think the seller just grabbed them off eBay without noticing the difference. I didn't bust him on it since the ad said they were 1Bs.

We were not too careful about set up. They were in the entry area open to the living room of his house and two stories high. We had them about 4-5 feet apart, 3 feet from the left wall, open on the right, about 6" from the back wall facing straight out. In my setup they will be 4-1/2 feet apart and 3 feet or less to each side wall or furniture. (My equipment and record cabinet is on the right wall and just fits in a niche there. I don't really want to move it or replace it.) That is on the short wall of a 13' x 19' x 8'-3" high living room. It would not be an ideal setup, but there just is no other place for them due to window, door, fireplace and furniture locations. That could be an argument against getting involved with SDAs at all!

But reading the SDA and Monitor 10 manuals I note that the minimum distance apart for SDAs is 4 feet, and 8 feet for the Monitors. Still too tight a fit.

Jim

F1nut

SDA's do much better on the long wall.

If you space them at 4.5 feet, how far away will you sit?

jimbo1421

F1nut wrote: »

SDA's do much better on the long wall.

If you space them at 4.5 feet, how far away will you sit?

There are no good locations on the long walls due to door and fireplace locations. Maybe this week I can get a floor plan to put up here.

If they are spaced 4.5 feet apart, my main listening position would be 8-9 feet away.

Jim

F1nut

If they are spaced 4.5 feet apart, my main listening position would be 8-9 feet away.

That isn't going to work very well.

jimbo1421

F1nut wrote: »

That isn't going to work very well.

I know. I am open to suggestions and I have attached a floor plan with possible locations, none of which are close to ideal. The chair is in my current listening position with Monitor 10s 18" away from the west wall. Other possibilities are:

Flanking the fireplace.
North wall to the right of the fireplace
South wall between two doors. This is the least desirable since my back would be to the fireplace.

I have not shown other furniture or TV set up; that's more negotiable.

Any ideas? Would SDAs be a waste in this room?

Jim

heiney9

Sda's are never a waste, but setting them up properly gives you the best reward. I still say if you can get them at a decent $$$, go ahead. They may not sound perfect, but still pretty damn good!

H9

cnh

I think your best scenario would be with the speakers on the 13' windowed wall on the left but you'll have to move your chair CLOSER to form a kind of triangle with the spacing between the speakers.

What do the rest of you think? I have a similar problem so my solution is to use the basement room...it has a 5 foot opening but also a 16 foot long wall. The room is 10' wide so I put the 2Bs about 8' apart, 3' from one wall and 5' feet from the other. Then sit about 8-9' away....I'm still experimenting with optimal placement myself. But I'm with you. This is the ONLY room I have that is workable in my entire house....2500 sq. ft worth?

And besides, heiney9 is right. These are an incredible bargain...unlike almost anything around these days for those PRICES!


cnh

heiney9

NM..........reading comprehension .

How far do you have them from the rear wall?

cnh

heiney9 wrote: »

NM..........reading comprehension .

How far do you have them from the rear wall?

Sorry,

I mistated, they're about 8" from the back wall and 3' away from the side wall (left), 5' (right) because of the opening? And 8' apart give or take.

cnh

jimbo1421

cnh wrote: »

I think your best scenario would be with the speakers on the 13' windowed wall on the left but you'll have to move your chair CLOSER to form a kind of triangle with the spacing between the speakers.

And besides, heiney9 is right. These are an incredible bargain...unlike almost anything around these days for those PRICES!

cnh

There is still the 39" tall audio and record storage cabinet on the north wall which cuts the space down to 18". I may have to move that and use something else for equipment. I will be working on that this afternoon along with the rest of the furniture layout.

The seller came down to $425. He thinks that the original MSRP was $2800. I now know that it was about half that. maybe I can revise his thinking with some facts.

Jim

cnh

Jimbo,

Here are the REAL numbers for you, they were NOT 2800!

SDA 1Bs....

SDA-1B 1987 $1,500 MSRP

You can tell him, Those are official Polk stats!

cnh

jimbo1421

cnh wrote: »

Jimbo,

Here are the REAL numbers for you, they were NOT 2800!

SDA 1Bs....

SDA-1B 1987 $1,500 MSRP

You can tell him, Those are official Polk stats!

cnh

I did

Jim

heiney9

You;re doing well if they are in good cond for $400. It would cost some $$$ to ship these if they weren't local or atleast some gas money to go an get them.

Again I don't know condition but if they have the cord and are in nice cond. offer $350 and settle at $375-400 and call it a day.

H9

WastelandWand'r

Jimbo,
I picked up a pair of single owner 1B's in fantastic shape for 400.00 even. Sure, I would have loved to only have paid 150.00 for them, but really can't complain too much about it.
Hope you enjoy them.
And looking at your schematic, maybe filling in the door to your office and deck area might be the best things as you would have that long wall to play with for speaker placement. The trade off is crawling through a window to get to the office and only being able to access the deck from outside, but hey life is full of comprimises.
Nathan

jimbo1421

Got 'em! $375.

I'll set them up after a bit of dinner.

Jim

F1nut

Any ideas?

Other than using a different room, no.

jimbo1421

Hello,
I now have them set up as shown in the attachment. I did the tests from the manual and all seems to be working as the manual described. The balance test was interesting. Playing a stereo source with the balance all the way to the left, sound comes from the inside face of the entry door. With the balance all the way to the right the sound originates from the face of the record cabinet. I suppose I am getting reflections from there that reinforce the SDA effect.

Returning to evenly balanced stereo, I have listened to a few albums and I must say that I am impressed. The sound field seems to follow the shape of the green half oval, forward on the sides, set back in the middle. With all that extra width the various instruments and vocals have space to stand out individually. It's remarkable. Another point of interest: when seated the sound field seems to stop at the face of the record cabinet on the right; stand up and it extends closer to the wall. So I think I will be moving that cabinet elsewhere.

I do have a problem in the center, though. As I said, the center seems recessed and vocals sometimes seem to be coming from back in a hallway. They are distinct, I can make out the words, they are just, well, too far back and too quiet. I moved the blue love seat out of there and that helped a bit. I mentioned reflections earlier. Could reflections off the walls, record cabinet and door be reinforcing the SDA effect and causing the center to seem diminished by comparison? I think one of my next steps will be to find the reflection points and treat them somehow. Can anyone recommend a cheap material to experiment with? Finger foam, maybe?

My thanks to all of you who replied with good advice and encouragement. You have helped me to sort out the 1B/1C confusion and to get a good price. To those who offered discouraging words, you also helped by reminding me where improvements are needed and what to look for in another house or plan for in a remodel job.

Jim

jimbo1421

Hello again,

I attached the wrong file earlier. Here is the current one.

Jim

heiney9

Make sure nothing is between the speakers, atleast at the main driver level so the love seat has to go.

george daniel

jumping in kinda late,, but I'd move the blue thing and close the door at the bottom of the schem. Good luck and enjoy.