Awesome in home Denon avr3808 vs the SC-07.

mantis

Whats up all????
I did the ultimate test for the Sc-07 against the Denon avr3808. A customer of mine had a really nice home theater With Revel speakers in a 5.2 setup with 2 killer Revel subs, a Denon avr3808 receiver , Pioneer Elite BDP95fd Blu Ray , Toshiba HD DVD , Rega Turntable , Panamax Surge all wired with Ixos cables and Binary HDMI's. HD cable and a Sony LCD XBR.

The customer always felt something was missing from his system. It lacked the punch and dynamic range. He originally only had one sub and figured that adding another sub should give him the punch he wanted. All that did was cover his room better. So he purchased a SC-07 Elite and I Installed it for him. He picked up The Matrix on Blu ray and wanted badly to hear it on the new system. he already ran it a few times on the Denon. It was flat and lifeless. After I installed it , cleaned up his system and calibrated

We sat down and I ran scene 29 and then 30. his jaw hit the floor and he started laughing out loud. He almost came to a tear. He stood up and said'If I only knew this is all I needed to make this system come alive, I would have done this a long time ago. He kept saying how amazing the Sc-07 sounded compared to the Denon, he kept saying" NIGHT AND DAY" he repeated that for the next 4 hours while I was there. He has another theater system that had B&K seperates which I replaced with Anthem D2V2 preamp and a A5 amp, changed out his Sony DVD and Installed a Pioneer Elite Bdp09fd.

he loved the Pioneer ELite so much he questioned if he should have purchased the Anthem. The Sc-07 . I told him let me run ARC and get the Anthem system up and running before you start making comments like that. he was so damn excited about the Revel room , he could care less about the Anthem room. He was so Excitied to be the first one to own the brand new Anthem D2v2 but after hearing the Pioneer Elite Sc-07 powering his Revel system, he really could care less. I laughed about that for awhile.

I learned so much after that Install. I already knew the Sc-07 was that good . Every single job I do with a Sc-07 , my customers just fall in love. I love it.

I'm a ICE power customer for life or until the next big thing comes around. For now the SC-07 is the ****.

Dan

Grimster74

Kind of the way I felt when I went from the 3808 to the SC-07.

Rob

Conradicles

Mantis, on the newer Elites can you still adjust the EQ after you run the MCACC and save a couple of different settings?

I really like that feature of my older pioneer.

VXR8

Can't comment on the SC-07 as they don't carry that range here in Oz, but my 3808 has plenty of kick - even previous to the MPS-2 I now have. Never been a big fan of LFE outs on AVR's and have always hooked it up the "Polk way". Far more control over the bass - especially in 2 channel mode. Nothing flat about my set up, but it comes down to personal taste I suppose. An external amp makes a difference with my 4 ohm speakers - maybe this is where the SC-07 shines with it's ICE amps?

Ciao for now.

renowilliams

I can't really comment on the SC-07 as I've never had an opportunity to listen to one. I can however comment on my elite reciever and it is incredible. I had a Yamaha RXv-861 and replaced it with the Pioneer. It sounds like I had the same reaction Mantis's customer had. The power and quality of sound is a quantum leap.

Sherardp

I have one in my system and it is "da bomb".

dane_peterson

I did an A/B from my Denon 3808 to the Pioneer '94 last year, and very much preferred the sound of the Pioneer. I'm very very tempted by these new models... even WITHOUT a surround sound rig.

mantis

Conradicles wrote: »

Mantis, on the newer Elites can you still adjust the EQ after you run the MCACC and save a couple of different settings?

I really like that feature of my older pioneer.

Yes and Yes. The EQ settings can be changed manually and there are Multible save points for different setups.
Dan

mantis

dane_peterson wrote: »

I did an A/B from my Denon 3808 to the Pioneer '94 last year, and very much preferred the sound of the Pioneer. I'm very very tempted by these new models... even WITHOUT a surround sound rig.

The SC-07 outshines the 94 by quite a bit. The 94 isn't as dynamic or clear. The 94 is however a really good sounding receiver and much better sounding then the Denon.The SC-07 is approaching separates sound quality. It's damn close.

I gotta admit I'm very disappointed in Denon for the last few years. It started with the 3805.

Dan

renowilliams

mantis wrote: »

The SC-07 outshines the 94 by quite a bit. The 94 isn't as dynamic or clear. The 94 is however a really good sounding receiver and much better sounding then the Denon.The SC-07 is approaching separates sound quality. It's damn close.

I gotta admit I'm very disappointed in Denon for the last few years. It started with the 3805.

Dan

I know that your familiar with my reciever Mantis. How would you compair it to the SC-07 in a side by side comparison.
I wish I knew someone local who owned one so I could. That said, I am very happy with the way mine performs and anyone who I've had over has been very impressed.

Pedler

VXR8 wrote: »

Can't comment on the SC-07 as they don't carry that range here in Oz, but my 3808 has plenty of kick - even previous to the MPS-2 I now have. Never been a big fan of LFE outs on AVR's and have always hooked it up the "Polk way". Far more control over the bass - especially in 2 channel mode. Nothing flat about my set up, but it comes down to personal taste I suppose. An external amp makes a difference with my 4 ohm speakers - maybe this is where the SC-07 shines with it's ICE amps?

Ciao for now.

I am going to say what the rest is not going to tell you ( The 3808 is flat sounding:() I compared the 3808 and pioneer.. No question in my mind. I wonder what speakers they designed these receivers for.

mantis

renowilliams wrote: »

I know that your familiar with my reciever Mantis. How would you compair it to the SC-07 in a side by side comparison.
I wish I knew someone local who owned one so I could. That said, I am very happy with the way mine performs and anyone who I've had over has been very impressed.

Your receiver started it all. I really like it's sound quality and ability to light up a room but it's so outdated now. Going to the SC-07 you will not be let down. if anything you will be surprised on how good it sounds compared to your 49. The new ICE amps are simply fantastic and with DD HD and DTS MA it's just flat out the best bang for the buck today. Nothing out there in my opinion is a better deal. Interga makes a hell of a receiver for the money and they give you HQV processing for video and all but I prefer the sound quality and dynamic range of the Elite SC-07.

Dan

leroyjr1

+1 for the SC-07. I preferred the sound of my sc-07 over my ONKYO 805 / ROTEL RMB-1075 combo and to my surprise it had more slam .

kingtut

mantis wrote: »

... I gotta admit I'm very disappointed in Denon for the last few years. It started with the 3805.

Dan

I had the same impression a few years back, when I went to a hi-fi store (can't remember which one.) I A/B the Denon 3803 & 3805, driving the same pair of speakers, and I thoght the 3803 sounded better. I thought I was hearing thing, because the 3805 was supposed to be new and improved version of the 3803.

cnh

I have enjoyed the ICE amps I've heard. But the class D debate was really hit hard years ago when Panasonic introduced their first all digital switching receiver. What I'd like to hear from all the Pioneer Elite fans is how those 2nd and 3 generation Pannies compare?

I own a second generation version that is very very clean with digital sources and can stand with any AVR at two or three times its price. It puts out a 'legitimate' 80 watts into 5 channels at 8 ohms continuous--all channels on; I've run it with JBL 3 way studio monitors that are very revealing of bad recordings and I DON'T hear ANY quantization ERRORS--that the ICE amps have 'supposedly' addressed. And the Pannies were very cheap.

cnh

dane_peterson

So Mantis, have you done SC-05 to SC-07 comparisons? I just wonder if that extra 10w/ch make a noticeable improvement. I can't justify going to the 07 if that's not the case.

Sherardp

dane_peterson wrote: »

So Mantis, have you done SC-05 to SC-07 comparisons? I just wonder if that extra 10w/ch make a noticeable improvement. I can't justify going to the 07 if that's not the case.

I've compared then, the SC-07 simply adds a few more things, more power, dual HDMI out and that's mainly. Sound wise, they sound the same, to me anyway. I don't think you can lose either way.

Retro152

Dan, This was the same Denon model i compared with the SC-05, in a BB Magnolia room. The demo i experienced was a Dave Matthew's concert, back and forth with both unit's, cant recall the speaker's used.:rolleyes: But this demo is what ultimately sold me on the 05, hand's down! Just much more Dynamic, and clean. Noticed alot more detail and power during the demo from the 05. Had the salesman cut it short after about 20 minute's of this, i knew who i was going home with.:)


Pat.

VXR8

Pedler wrote: »

I am going to say what the rest is not going to tell you ( The 3808 is flat sounding:() I compared the 3808 and pioneer.. No question in my mind. I wonder what speakers they designed these receivers for.

Thanks Pedler - no denying one person's definition of "flat" could be another's definition of being "natural". As I state, with my set up (LSis), I don't have an issue with it being flat. Each to their own I guess.

As I state, we don't have the SC series here in Oz (or Elite range for that matter), but you guys may be able to assist me in letting me know if this is the equivalent of the SC-07 - if it is, I'd be happy to get my ears on one with my set up, just to compare notes:

http://www.pioneer.com.au/Products/Home%20Entertainment/Premium%20LX%20Range/Receivers/SCLX81.aspx

Lsi9

I guess his revels were not 4 ohm...I read somewhere that the pioneers choke w/ 4ohm loads? not sure if it is true

LuSh

The Pioneer makes a great sounding product, a friend of mine own's the SC-05. I would like to add one thing, the MCACC house curve produces a nice rounded, warm, "thick" sound which is very clean. The subwoofer in his system is quite active. One thing his Pioneer is not; is overly powerful using anything other then 8 ohm speakers.

The Pioneer's power supply is small, the capacitors used are very small in comparison to what's out there at other competitive price points. Gene over at Audioholics's was able to make an SC-07 clip very quickly using a 4 ohm load.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/pioneer-sc-07/sc-07-measurements-and-analysis

This is in no way suggesting the Pioneer is NOT a great sounding unit...I think it produces a transparent smooth sound which is fairly warm and thick in the middle; however it's not the most powerful unit out there. For those to suggest it beats Anthem separates or even comes close...I think anybody who uses 'audiophile' speakers would be able to hear the difference quite quickly.

Sherardp

VXR8 wrote: »

Thanks Pedler - no denying one person's definition of "flat" could be another's definition of being "natural". As I state, with my set up (LSis), I don't have an issue with it being flat. Each to their own I guess.

As I state, we don't have the SC series here in Oz (or Elite range for that matter), but you guys may be able to assist me in letting me know if this is the equivalent of the SC-07 - if it is, I'd be happy to get my ears on one with my set up, just to compare notes:

http://www.pioneer.com.au/Products/Home%20Entertainment/Premium%20LX%20Range/Receivers/SCLX81.aspx

LX81=SC-07, yes you are correct.

mantis

LuSh wrote: »

The Pioneer makes a great sounding product, a friend of mine own's the SC-05. I would like to add one thing, the MCACC house curve produces a nice rounded, warm, "thick" sound which is very clean. The subwoofer in his system is quite active. One thing his Pioneer is not; is overly powerful using anything other then 8 ohm speakers.

The Pioneer's power supply is small, the capacitors used are very small in comparison to what's out there at other competitive price points. Gene over at Audioholics's was able to make an SC-07 clip very quickly using a 4 ohm load.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/pioneer-sc-07/sc-07-measurements-and-analysis

This is in no way suggesting the Pioneer is NOT a great sounding unit...I think it produces a transparent smooth sound which is fairly warm and thick in the middle; however it's not the most powerful unit out there. For those to suggest it beats Anthem separates or even comes close...I think anybody who uses 'audiophile' speakers would be able to hear the difference quite quickly.

It's intresting he got it to clip. I have not been able to clip mine. I'm using my Dynaudio Audience 82's 86db and 4 ohms , 122c center 86 4 ohms , and a pair of 42w's again 87db 4 ohms rated. What amazes me is the fact I still have good dynamic range under these conditions. granted I run everything in small including the mains and crossed over at 80hz. My sub fill in the bottom end very nicely which is a Dynaudio sub500. I have ran movies at 0db reference levels for 2 hours without a hint of strain or excessive heat. The Sc-07 stays warm.

My Rotel rmb1095 was in the rack as the amp before I got ballsy and took it out and ran everything off the receivers ICE amps. I didn't feel I lost anything. It stayed nice and clear, dynamic which is my biggest beef with most receivers.

Dan

dpowell

I'm very impressed with the Pioneer Elite I just bought. While I didn't go for the SC (got a great deal on last year's non-ICE model here on the forum) I cannot believe my ears. It is a night and day difference from what I had before. If the SC07 is truly another whole leap beyond the Elite VSX-92TXH then I will own one some day.....For now, I'm thrilled to be hearing movies in a dramatically more dynamic way.

Glad I didn't go for the Denon as it sure was on the list at one point in time.

renowilliams

dpowell wrote: »

I'm very impressed with the Pioneer Elite I just bought. While I didn't go for the SC (got a great deal on last year's non-ICE model here on the forum) I cannot believe my ears. It is a night and day difference from what I had before. If the SC07 is truly another whole leap beyond the Elite VSX-92TXH then I will own one some day.....For now, I'm thrilled to be hearing movies in a dramatically more dynamic way.

Glad I didn't go for the Denon as it sure was on the list at one point in time.

I'm with you there. I am very happy with my older elite.

cnh

I don't mean to be a wet blanket but I just read that Lyngdorf digital amps are superior to Pioneer ICE-chip based amps! Of course they cost a lot more and evidently they ARE NOT based on the ICE chip? Don't really know much about designs. But I heard a Lyngdorf system when I was in England and all I can say is, I agree, I've heard the Pioneers, but the Lyngdorf along with the companion speakers were pretty incredible! And I dare say even CLEANER and better detail than the Elites.

cnh

Conradicles

cnh wrote: »

I don't mean to be a wet blanket but I just read that Lyngdorf digital amps are superior to Pioneer ICE-chip based amps! Of course they cost a lot more and evidently they ARE NOT based on the ICE chip? Don't really know much about designs. But I heard a Lyngdorf system when I was in England and all I can say is, I agree, I've heard the Pioneers, but the Lyngdorf along with the companion speakers were pretty incredible! And I dare say even CLEANER and better detail than the Elites.

cnh

And your point is???

cnh

I'm just saying there are better digital amps out there....nothing more. And of course, most of us, including yours truly can't afford these. I'm also still on London time and out of sorts...brings out the 'contrarian' in me; I'll be fine as soon as the Fiber kicks in?

cnh