No subwoofer in 2-channel mode on my Pioneer VSX-92TXH

dpowell
dpowell Posts: 3,068
edited June 2009 in Electronics
I'm new to the Pioneer AVR and haven't been able to figure out how to get the subwoofer activated in 2-channel stereo listening mode. Anyone else run into this problem?
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polkaudio Fully Modded SDA SRS 1.2TLs + Dreadnaught, LSiM706c, 4 X Polk Surrounds + 4 X ATMOS, SVS PB13 Ultra X 2, Pass Labs X1, Marantz 7704, Bob Carver Crimson Beauty 350 Tube Mono Blocks, Carver Sunfire Signature Cinema Grande 400x5, ADCOM GFA 7807, Panasonic UB420, Moon 380D DAC, EPSON Pro Cinema 6050
Post edited by dpowell on
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  • thuffman03
    thuffman03 Posts: 1,325
    edited June 2009
    Not to sound silly but when in 2 channel mode you might have to go into the setup and turn the sub on. I had to do that with both my HK's.
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  • John K.
    John K. Posts: 822
    edited June 2009
    DP, in Stereo mode playing 2-channel material you have to be sure that you have the main speakers set "Small" with an appropriate crossover, such as 80Hz. If the mains are set "Large" they get the full range, including the low bass. Since there's no LFE in 2-channel material, as there occasionally is in 5.1 movie source material, the subwoofer would be sent nothing unless you send it bass redirected from mains set "Small".
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited June 2009
    This would depend, I think, on what you mean by the '2-channel mode'.

    On my Yamaha, there is a mode that is called "Pure Direct" which purposely bypasses most of the internal DSP and sound field features and provides a more or less direct path for 2-channel sources such as CD or Phono, to the amplifier stages of the AVR.

    And by design, the 2-channel input stays as a 2-channel path thru the AVR.

    This means there is no sub - regardless if speakers are set to large or small.

    For my Yamaha and many other AVRs, bass management is done in the digital domain and is derived from source inputs.

    When in "Pure Direct" the source is 2-channel, therefore, the output is ONLY 2-channel and does not include the .1 channel which is typically associated with the sub output.

    If the mode you are really talking about is the equivalent to a "Pure Direct" path, then you may just have to live with the fact that you get no sub output in this mode, unless you are willing to re-wire your sub to speaker or line level inputs.

    An alternate mode which may be on your Pioneer would be something like "Straight" or "Stereo" which would allow you to listen to 2-channel sources but still derive the .1/sub channel in the digital domain via the bass management circuitry in your avr.

    One subtletly to note is that in such a mode, you are not listening to the DACs in the source device, but the DACs in your avr because the AVR is converting any analog source back to digital, applying bass management and deriving the .1/sub channel, then converting back to analog to be presented to the avr amps and to your speakers.

    FWIW....

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  • Knucklehead
    Knucklehead Posts: 3,602
    edited June 2009
    John K. wrote: »
    DP, in Stereo mode playing 2-channel material you have to be sure that you have the main speakers set "Small" with an appropriate crossover, such as 80Hz. If the mains are set "Large" they get the full range, including the low bass. Since there's no LFE in 2-channel material, as there occasionally is in 5.1 movie source material, the subwoofer would be sent nothing unless you send it bass redirected from mains set "Small".

    Your exactly right John, I have the 816, my R50's produce enough bass for music for me so I just leave them set to "large".
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  • Marty913
    Marty913 Posts: 760
    edited June 2009
    dpowell wrote: »
    I'm new to the Pioneer AVR and haven't been able to figure out how to get the subwoofer activated in 2-channel stereo listening mode. Anyone else run into this problem?

    Erik's explanation is very good. The Pioneer's have an Auto, Stream Direct, and Pure Direct mode plus global (all input) bass management so it can be a little confusing to sort out. HK and some other allow bass management on a per input basis but with the Pioneer and others it usually means a trip to the setup menus. Regardless, Direct Stream (versus Pure Direct) may give you more flexibility but it does involve the digital processing. Pure Direct does not. The forums at AVS are pretty good about sorting through it all at the possible cost of going blind reading the 10,000 posts (on the SC line anyway).

    I wonder sometimes whether the product engineers actually talk to any users before they put this stuff together. Maybe they're too busy coming up with the next "stadium" or "small jazz club" DSP modes.
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  • dpowell
    dpowell Posts: 3,068
    edited June 2009
    Thanks! Some great suggestions. I'll take a trip to the setup menu again and try out some additional settings. With the RT3000's, I have the subs x-over'd at 80Hz but they seem to be missing some punch that I was being filled in from the LFE sub on my previous AVR (even on the CD analog inputs). Of course with the Sony ES, it was a simple subwoofer on/off switch.
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  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited June 2009
    It's less of a setup thing per sa but a button on the front of the AVR mark "Stream Direct" cycle that button for the 3 options. It's this way on a 84TXH I assume the same on the 92TXH.

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  • pablo_rodz
    pablo_rodz Posts: 331
    edited June 2009
    I think there is an option where you can select the subwoofer to be used all the time. I own the same AVR (GREAT RECEIVER!) I'm not at home, so I can't check the manual...
    HT:
    Projector - JVC HD100, 100" Fixed Screen, A/V Receiver - Pioneer Elite VSX-92TXH, Power Conditioner - Panamax M5300-EX, BluRay - Sony PS3, (2) ADCOM GFA 555 Bridged, Speakers - LSi 15, LSi C, LSi FX, Sub - 12" M&K VX-1250.

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  • dpowell
    dpowell Posts: 3,068
    edited June 2009
    pablo_rodz wrote: »
    I think I own the same AVR (GREAT RECEIVER!)

    I agree. I can't believe the difference in SQ. I'll check both the direct button as well as the always on suggestion.
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    polkaudio Fully Modded SDA SRS 1.2TLs + Dreadnaught, LSiM706c, 4 X Polk Surrounds + 4 X ATMOS, SVS PB13 Ultra X 2, Pass Labs X1, Marantz 7704, Bob Carver Crimson Beauty 350 Tube Mono Blocks, Carver Sunfire Signature Cinema Grande 400x5, ADCOM GFA 7807, Panasonic UB420, Moon 380D DAC, EPSON Pro Cinema 6050
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  • Kex
    Kex Posts: 5,260
    edited June 2009
    dpowell wrote: »
    ... With the RT3000's, I have the subs x-over'd at 80Hz but they seem to be missing some punch that I was being filled in from the LFE sub on my previous AVR (even on the CD analog inputs). ...
    Wow! This is a little bit off topic, but I don't think that I would set the crossover that high for RT3000p. In fact, I'd probably have it all the way down at 40Hz, since the lower -3dB limit is at 26Hz. Of course, this is a personal thing, but have you tried 60Hz and 40Hz "on the fly", with music playing, to see what you prefer yet?

    Just a thought ...
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  • Vette C6.r
    Vette C6.r Posts: 1,560
    edited June 2009
    There is a menu in the settings that I believe is the "speaker setup". It must be put on PLUS for the sub and the speakers to work.
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  • dpowell
    dpowell Posts: 3,068
    edited June 2009
    Kex wrote: »
    Wow! This is a little bit off topic, but I don't think that I would set the crossover that high for RT3000p. In fact, I'd probably have it all the way down at 40Hz, since the lower -3dB limit is at 26Hz. Of course, this is a personal thing, but have you tried 60Hz and 40Hz "on the fly", with music playing, to see what you prefer yet?

    Just a thought ...

    I have not. My assumption was that 80Hz was the point at which the high/mid range of the top section of the RT's ended and the subs on the RT3000's began and continued down to 26Hz. I'll try your suggestion and see what the difference is.
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    polkaudio Fully Modded SDA SRS 1.2TLs + Dreadnaught, LSiM706c, 4 X Polk Surrounds + 4 X ATMOS, SVS PB13 Ultra X 2, Pass Labs X1, Marantz 7704, Bob Carver Crimson Beauty 350 Tube Mono Blocks, Carver Sunfire Signature Cinema Grande 400x5, ADCOM GFA 7807, Panasonic UB420, Moon 380D DAC, EPSON Pro Cinema 6050
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  • pablo_rodz
    pablo_rodz Posts: 331
    edited June 2009
    Vette C6.r wrote: »
    There is a menu in the settings that I believe is the "speaker setup". It must be put on PLUS for the sub and the speakers to work.

    x2.

    Switch it to PLUS, and the AVR will always send the signal to the sub.
    HT:
    Projector - JVC HD100, 100" Fixed Screen, A/V Receiver - Pioneer Elite VSX-92TXH, Power Conditioner - Panamax M5300-EX, BluRay - Sony PS3, (2) ADCOM GFA 555 Bridged, Speakers - LSi 15, LSi C, LSi FX, Sub - 12" M&K VX-1250.

    Living Room:
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