LSi Serie: Why does set my speakers to Large (or Small) when I know they are not?
Why does set my speakers to Large (or Small) when I know they are not?
This is a decision: should be made using 40 Hz as the roll- off frequency. That is to say, if a speaker is found to roll-off below 40 Hz it should be called Large and all other speakers should be called Small.
My Question:
1) LSi Serie PolkAudio on this budget is large or small.
2) LSi Serie PolkAudio: is a speaker is found to roll-off below 40
Hz
Br
This is a decision: should be made using 40 Hz as the roll- off frequency. That is to say, if a speaker is found to roll-off below 40 Hz it should be called Large and all other speakers should be called Small.
My Question:
1) LSi Serie PolkAudio on this budget is large or small.
2) LSi Serie PolkAudio: is a speaker is found to roll-off below 40
Hz
Br
Post edited by Bernal on
Comments
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LSi7, LSi9, LSi15 or LSi25? What receiver or pre are you using for the calibration?Alea jacta est!
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LSi7, LSi9, LSi15 or LSi25? What receiver or pre are you using for the calibration?
HT: 5.1
Pre:
DENON AVR-4308CI: Advanced 7.1 CH/5.1+2 CH/ 3.1+2+2 CH A/V Home Theater /MultiMedia Multi-Source/Zone Receiver with Networking and WiFi/170 watts x 7 channels
Amp:
SUNFIRE Grand Signature
Speaker:
LSiC (Center speaker)
LSi15 LEFT (Front speaker)
LSi15 RIGHT (Front speaker)
LSif/x LEFT (Surround speaker)
LSif/x RIGHT (Surround speaker)
VELODYNE OPTIMUN SERIES (High Output Digital EQ SubWoofer 2400W/1200WRMS) -
I'd set all speakers to small and crossover at 60 or 80, whichever you prefer.Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden
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Play with it, see what you like. I wouldn't waste the low end response on the 15's with anything set higher than 40Hz.....
Cheers,
RussCheck your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service. -
I agree with RuSsMaN. 40Hz is likely to be the right setting. Try also 60Hz and you should know which of the two you prefer almost instantly, especially if the Denon allows you to change the setting "on the fly" without stopping the music (put a decent CD that you know well and like in the player). You should notice much more musical and controlled bass IMO at 40Hz, and the subwoofer can dedicate itself to doing what it does best.
It's not surprising that Audyssey calibrated these as large, given their lower 3dB limit. You might even want to try leaving them that way for music listening IMO, if the Denon allows you to memorize different settings that can be easily accessed from the remote (use the small setting for movies, and the large setting for certain types of music). If you do decide you prefer the large setting for music, then you'll have to determine if you think the subwoofer is helping or not for music listening (some people just prefer certain types of music without a subwoofer, as long as the speakers can get close enough to 30Hz ... or lower).Alea jacta est! -
Play with it, see what you like. I wouldn't waste the low end response on the 15's with anything set higher than 40Hz.....
Cheers,
RussI agree with RuSsMaN. 40Hz is likely to be the right setting. Try also 60Hz and you should know which of the two you prefer almost instantly, especially if the Denon allows you to change the setting "on the fly" without stopping the music (put a decent CD that you know well and like in the player). You should notice much more musical and controlled bass IMO at 40Hz, and the subwoofer can dedicate itself to doing what it does best.
It's not surprising that Audyssey calibrated these as large, given their lower 3dB limit. You might even want to try leaving them that way for music listening IMO, if the Denon allows you to memorize different settings that can be easily accessed from the remote (use the small setting for movies, and the large setting for certain types of music). If you do decide you prefer the large setting for music, then you'll have to determine if you think the subwoofer is helping or not for music listening (some people just prefer certain types of music without a subwoofer, as long as the speakers can get close enough to 30Hz ... or lower).
Hello.
To better understand:
1 .- The recommendation for all speakers is small.
2 .- Set all speakers at 40Hz for music.
3 .- Set all speakers for movies at 60HZ.
4 .- 60 or 80Hz Subwoofer?
5 .- Why choose Denon Audyssey MultEQ XT speaker: small 60/100HZ?
This graph can also:
Music:
Large Setting:
LSiC (Center speaker) = 40HZ
LSi15 LEFT (Front speaker) = 40 HZ
LSi15 RIGHT (Front speaker) = 40 Hz
LSif/x LEFT (Surround speaker) = 40 HZ
LSif/x RIGHT (Surround speaker) = 40 Hz
VELODYNE OPTIMUN SERIES = 60HZ
Movie:
Small Setting:
LSiC (Center speaker) = 60HZ
LSi15 LEFT (Front speaker) = 60 HZ
LSi15 RIGHT (Front speaker) = 60 Hz
LSif/x LEFT (Surround speaker) = 60 HZ
LSif/x RIGHT (Surround speaker) = 60 Hz
VELODYNE OPTIMUN SERIES = 80HZ
Denon Audyssey MultEQ XT Auto-Setup/Room EQ: speaker configuration set as:
Small Setting:
LSiC (Center speaker) = 100HZ
LSi15 LEFT (Front speaker) = 60 HZ
LSi15 RIGHT (Front speaker) = 60 Hz
LSif/x LEFT (Surround speaker) = 100 HZ
LSif/x RIGHT (Surround speaker) = 100 Hz
VELODYNE OPTIMUN SERIES = 80HZ
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Hi,
If I miss something please tell me.
Thanks -
Set all your speakers to large, sub = no, and run the sub off the front pre-amp output. Works fine for me with 4 LSi15s, 1 LSiC, and a PSW1000 sub. If you do not like it then put them back the way they were.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
Ok,here's a question I can never get answered.........
Why spend the money on floorstanders and then set them to small ?
Anyone care to take a shot at this ?HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Ok,here's a question I can never get answered.........
Why spend the money on floorstanders and then set them to small ?
Anyone care to take a shot at this ?
Generally speaking just because it's a FS doesn't mean it can produce full range. Odds are it's not even close. A FS is designed as a jack of all trades, master of none. Pretty much like a receiver...everything crammed into one box. Something has to give.
By setting them to small you relieve them of struggling to produce what they can't. Now the mids will open up & sound as sweet as honey & let the sub handle what it's designed for...the low end.
Also I'll bet that where the FS are placed in the room is the absolute worst location for bass performance. Now you have a speaker trying to do it all in a bad location. Now this doesn't mean that the mighty FS can't sound good, because they sure can. They'll just sound a lot better having to do less.
I was always a FS guy until I discovered what a pair of great monitors paired with dual subs can sound like. Dynamite!!! No more FS here."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
Ok,here's a question I can never get answered.........
Why spend the money on floorstanders and then set them to small ?
Anyone care to take a shot at this ?
"...Receivers and preamp/processors typically have two settings for your speakers: "small" and "large." You need to get past what these words actually mean in English, as they are a very poor choice for this feature of a processor. This setting actually has nothing to do with the size of the speakers, and everything to do with the range of the speakers. This setting determines when low frequencies are diverted from your front speakers and into your subwoofer (the crossover frequency). In other words, it has a tremendous effect on the bass you'll hear in movie soundtracks...." (published by O'Reilly Media, Inc) -
Set all your speakers to large, sub = no, and run the sub off the front pre-amp output. Works fine for me with 4 LSi15s, 1 LSiC, and a PSW1000 sub. If you do not like it then put them back the way they were.
Hi,
Set speakers; large at 60Hz. OK.
Connected to the subwoofer pre-out of the main speakers. Ok.
The pre-out of the main speakers connected to the amplifier.
As I do?
Explain in a graph.
Thank you -
pearsall001 wrote: »Generally speaking just because it's a FS doesn't mean it can produce full range. Odds are it's not even close. A FS is designed as a jack of all trades, master of none. Pretty much like a receiver...everything crammed into one box. Something has to give.
By setting them to small you relieve them of struggling to produce what they can't. Now the mids will open up & sound as sweet as honey & let the sub handle what it's designed for...the low end.
Also I'll bet that where the FS are placed in the room is the absolute worst location for bass performance. Now you have a speaker trying to do it all in a bad location. Now this doesn't mean that the mighty FS can't sound good, because they sure can. They'll just sound a lot better having to do less.
I was always a FS guy until I discovered what a pair of great monitors paired with dual subs can sound like. Dynamite!!! No more FS here.
I imagine more than a few can subscibe to this,but then the question remains,why spend the coin on floorstanders when you don't utilize the whole speaker? As you say,why not go the monitor/sub route?To me,if your going the floorstander way,then buy a full range FS and not a full range wannabe.I guess I don't see the logic in it is all,kinda like buying SACD player and only playing redbook on it.To each his own I guess,just my .02.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
I imagine more than a few can subscibe to this,but then the question remains,why spend the coin on floorstanders when you don't utilize the whole speaker? As you say,why not go the monitor/sub route?To me,if your going the floorstander way,then buy a full range FS and not a full range wannabe.I guess I don't see the logic in it is all,kinda like buying SACD player and only playing redbook on it.To each his own I guess,just my .02.
Interesting, but if it exists?
Why? For example LSi 9 versus LSi15. Personally, I think the LSi15 as an "extension" of the magnificent LSi 9 to which was added a third way to lower frecuencias.Con want it to say that the LSi 15 in its upper part is almost identical to his sister lower LSI 9 but for the home sections LSi 15 for middle and high frequencies, while low is dedicated to the rest of the cabinet. This can not do the LSi 9. The record is seriously powerful, forceful and often descends into more than you would expect from an eight-inch woofer -
The reason I like larger speakers, even with a subwoofer, is that I have become addicted to setting my crossover to 40Hz. The bass I get is far more detailed and precise, and a lot less thuddy, if that makes any sense. The result is more musical IMO. I couldn't really do this convincingly (using my current speakers) with any of my receivers, or the Emotiva Ultra Theater combo I tried for a short time (they were all set at 60Hz), but it works like a charm with my NAD receiver. In fact, to me, it's the biggest difference between this receiver and everything else I have tried thus far. It seems to me that if I'm going to use this setting, it would be better to have speakers that have a lower -3dB limit of 30-40Hz, which is easier to find in a FS than a BS, but certainly not full range.
Another consideration might be the subwoofer itself. I am currently using a sealed Rythmik subwoofer, which is very tight and punchy for a whole range of effects in movies, but I still haven't made up my mind if I like using it for music or not. This is possibly because my speakers just don't play low enough, or my subwoofer well enough for me to like the results for this type of listening.
Of course, there's always the practical issue of FS speakers being generally less prone to being knocked over accidentally ... by people or animals!
Concering Bernal and the LSi15 he is using, with a lower -3dB limit of 30Hz, and an overall response down to 22Hz, it certainly would seem like a waste to me to set the crossover as high as 60Hz or 80Hz, but I suppose that does depend on his subwoofer and his own personal tastes ... and most of us would agree that specifications printed on paper can never tell the whole story. As I suggested earlier: making the switch "on the fly", with music playing, I would know almost instantly which I preferred.Alea jacta est! -
Here's a great article on the subject. Nothing etched in concrete, but I found the principles to be sound. I think the problem most have is the mind set that their FS speakers are really full range, truth is that unless you've spent mega $$$$ & the speakers themselves are huge, they're not close to being full range. Marketing hype & phony specs reares it's ugly head on this one. That word "Fullrange" is tossed around as loosely as "Reference" in the audio world.
http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/128214.html"2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
...Concering Bernal and the LSi15 he is using, with a lower -3dB limit of 30Hz, and an overall response down to 22Hz, it certainly would seem like a waste to me to set the crossover as high as 60Hz or 80Hz, but I suppose that does depend on his subwoofer and his own personal tastes ... and most of us would agree that specifications printed on paper can never tell the whole story. As I suggested earlier: making the switch "on the fly", with music playing, I would know almost instantly which I preferred.
Based on my Denon 4308Ci system means that you can configure the LSI 15 to 40Hz? Ok. And the subwoofer configure ... HZ? You can target a little more. -
pearsall001 wrote: »Here's a great article on the subject. Nothing etched in concrete, but I found the principles to be sound. I think the problem most have is the mind set that their FS speakers are really full range, truth is that unless you've spent mega $$$$ & the speakers themselves are huge, they're not close to being full range. Marketing hype & phony specs reares it's ugly head on this one. That word "Fullrange" is tossed around as loosely as "Reference" in the audio world.
http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/128214.html
Good article.
Thank you. -
Good article.
Thank you.:rolleyes: -
Hi Tony. Phil really is right on the money with this. Whether BS or FS the drivers can only go so low. and when they are struggling to play the really low stuff, the mid range which the drivers handle really well suffers in the process. Becoming strained & muddy sounding.
Once you put a sub into the works & let it do its job the mid range from the speakers becomes much more crisp, clear & clean.
So for the most part the recommendation to set all speakers to small & crossover @ 80hz works really well.I imagine more than a few can subscibe to this,but then the question remains,why spend the coin on floorstanders when you don't utilize the whole speaker? As you say,why not go the monitor/sub route?To me,if your going the floorstander way,then buy a full range FS and not a full range wannabe.I guess I don't see the logic in it is all,kinda like buying SACD player and only playing redbook on it.To each his own I guess,just my .02.Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2 -
If your main speakers have the same or more volume and impact at the deepest bass frequencies your subwoofer can hit - you should set them to large while you save for a better subwoofer.Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms) -
If your main speakers have the same or more volume and impact at the deepest bass frequencies your subwoofer can hit - you should set them to large while you save for a better subwoofer.
Hello.
His advice applies to this setting?
LSiC (Center speaker)
LSi15 LEFT (Front speaker)
LSi15 RIGHT (Front speaker)
LSif/x LEFT (Surround speaker)
LSif/x RIGHT (Surround speaker)
VELODYNE OPTIMUN SERIES (High Output Digital EQ SubWoofer 2400W/1200WRMS) -
My Question:
1) LSi Serie PolkAudio on this budget is large or small.
2) LSi Serie PolkAudio: is a speaker is found to roll-off below 40
Hz
BrWhy does set my speakers to Large (or Small) when I know they are not?
This is a decision: should be made using 40 Hz as the roll- off frequency. That is to say, if a speaker is found to roll-off below 40 Hz it should be called Large and all other speakers should be called Small. -
Hello.
His advice applies to this setting?
LSiC (Center speaker)
LSi15 LEFT (Front speaker)
LSi15 RIGHT (Front speaker)
LSif/x LEFT (Surround speaker)
LSif/x RIGHT (Surround speaker)
VELODYNE OPTIMUN SERIES (High Output Digital EQ SubWoofer 2400W/1200WRMS)
Yes - in my opinon - if you have a decent subwoofer, you should set all speakers to small. The crossover depends on the capability of the speaker, subwoofer and room you are in.
I have two good subwoofers, and a bad room for bass. Based on that I have all speakers set to small with an 80hz crossover. (should probably be 100 in my room, but oh well....)
If I had a better room (and a pre/pro that does not truncate the LFE channel to the same crossover setting as the mains) I would cross over the fronts and center at 60hz and my LSi7's at 80hz. (if I had LSiFX - they would cross over at 60hz as well)
The thing to remember is a crossover is not a brick wall. The speaker will still be asked to play below the crossover level. If you set the crossover frequency at the lower limits of your speakers, it will not be able to play hardly at all below the crossover level and blending the sound to the subwoofer will become very hard.
With your speakers, you can set them to anything you would like, but that is how I set mine and why I do it.
MichaelMains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms) -
My Question:
1) LSi Serie PolkAudio on this budget is large or small.
2) LSi Serie PolkAudio: is a speaker is found to roll-off below 40
Hz
Br
1) yes
2) yes, but not really the most important for this discussion. A better question would be - Above what level is the bass from the LSi series better than the bass you get from your subwoofer?
That will give you the answer for large or small and what the crossover frequency should be.Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms) -
1) yes
2) yes, but not really the most important for this discussion. A better question would be - Above what level is the bass from the LSi series better than the bass you get from your subwoofer?
That will give you the answer for large or small and what the crossover frequency should be.
Thanks for the info. -
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