Amps & power

MxStYlEpOlKmAn

I think people argue for the sake to argue - whether U like it or not, its actually quite fun as i find myself in them as well.

TroyD

Hey, I just want answers to my questions, I haven't flamed anyone or anything, I just think there are some holes in Dan and liv's story and since they have the insider info, I'd like some clarification which it doesn't appear is forth coming.

BDT

mantis

TroyD,
what exactly are you looking for?

Hey, I just want answers to my questions, I haven't flamed anyone or anything, I just think there are some holes in Dan and liv's story and since they have the insider info, I'd like some clarification which it doesn't appear is forth coming.

What holes?

TroyD

First, the whole story with with the ML's. It seemed an ****-backwards way to hook up the amps to start with. It would seem someone right off the bat would have raised the BS flag. If it's such a blatant problem, was wasn't there pre-intervention before hooking everything up. I mean, it's an industry standard surely something that blatant couldn't just slip by the sales/design/install team.

Second, the sub amp issue. If you maintain that all channels must be equal, I really haven't seen a plausible reason why receivers don't have an added channel and we aren't all running passive subs through the receiver.

Third, since I have no idea, according to you, why isn't there an industry standard for what a receiver or amp should be rated at.

BDT

TroyD

well........

mantis

you got it...........ALLDAY!!!!!!!!!

First, the whole story with with the ML's. It seemed an ****-backwards way to hook up the amps to start with. It would seem someone right off the bat would have raised the BS flag. If it's such a blatant problem, was wasn't there pre-intervention before hooking everything up. I mean, it's an industry standard surely something that blatant couldn't just slip by the sales/design/install team.

Without being there,I see why you have a problem with this.One thing you gotta remember is that there is a CUSTOMER involved.This customer was one picky,opnionated ****.He felt no need to buy matching amps(like others).He also liked 2 channel better then watching movies.The entire gear list was a struggle with this guy.Now money was never an object for this dude,his house was like 4 million.But he had an opnion and felt he wanted to design his system against our better judgement.We advise our customer what they should use and whats balance,but alot of times(like You) feel we are just trying to take there money for our own benefit.
Dude I will tell you alitlle more about this job,right from the prewire, he questioned everything thing we said and wanted to do.Which I don't have any problems with,it's his system and his money.Placement he had his own ideas where he wanted his speakers.His placement was flat out wrong.This salesman asked me to speak with the customer about placement as he was getting nowhere with him.This system was a 7.1 layout.He wanted to put the main speakers in the corners of his room,rears touching the ceiling and surround back on the side walls.....man....
After I spoke to him about placement,I told him about room acoustics/correct placement and WHY.After a long debate,he agreed with most of my advise,but went ahead and did his own thing in some places.
Wire was the other big one.He wanted to use cheap wire as he felt no need to spend megabucks on it.I told him the benefits of using good quality wire on his system,he has never tested/demo'd or anything about wire.He was under the feeling of marketing hype(sound like someone????).I told him to go back into the store and take the challenge with the system he bought.We had most of it on the floor for him to hear his own gear go.After a listening test,he bought the better wire.He felt alot better about spending the extra megabucks now.
As I told you a couple of times now,the amp was changed after he customer heard his system.The balanced he heard in the store wasn't there.The main amp over powered the surrounds/center amp.You can't possible understand what I'm talking aboutif you don't hear it.When you do,then you'll understand.I'm in no way going to try to convince what to use.If unequal power doesn't bother you in the least bit,or anyone else for that matter,I'm not going to beat a dead horse.
All I can do Troy is share my experiences with everyone.I have heard many many system go,and have come to the conclusion that unequal power for me......doesn't work.I like full balance.I don't sacriface my system in any way.
I do however want my new system to perform equally as well with 2 channel/multichannel music and homt theater.Alot of people feel this isn't possible.For a ton of reasons....I agree with alot of them but time will tell after I build the room,set everything up and see for myself.

Second, the sub amp issue. If you maintain that all channels must be equal, I really haven't seen a plausible reason why receivers don't have an added channel and we aren't all running passive subs through the receiver.

you could verywell have a good point here Troy.I can tell you this however,when your sub is more powerfull then your system,you can tell when a dynamic pass happens.The sub can and will drown out the rest of the system.Same thing goes if your sub is underpowered,it won't keep up with the rest of the system.
Again this is something you have to experience to believe......better put feel about it.
Since I have been an installer,I have learned alot of things about different rooms,speakers,amps,etc.....it's changed alot of my perspective.But agin man I can't even say it enough,you have to experience these things.Just like different wire,I can't tell you that brand x is better then brand Y.You have to deside these things for yourself.

Third, since I have no idea, according to you, why isn't there an industry standard for what a receiver or amp should be rated at.

Industry standard.........thats a good one Troy,and you know what????I actually agree with you to a degree.There is so many opnions on how IT should be done,It's extremely hard to figure out"what the hell is the standard".Dude I really feel yeah here(not like that you sick pervert..WAAA!!)THX is one thing you can call a standard or at least an attempt to make a standard.Dolby labs gives standards,DTS gives standards.Check it out.......
THX is involved in recording/making movies.Like George himself,he has a story to tell.He want's YOU to hear what he is doinf/making/feeling.There is a level he wants you to experience is IDEA/movie/story.So he makes standards.This is how it should be playedback.You could research this,it's a good read.THX is something I want to explore deeper as I have just alittle more then face value of understanding.I have taken 2 classes and was so taken by there commitment of excellence,it was like meeting.....well I'll leave out me personally feelings there to spare myself.
**** due to answer your receiver amp power question I can tell you this.There is a needed amount of power to drive a given speaker system to REFERENCE levels without distortion.There are atone of factors.THX addresses these factors with there THX select and ultra(now ultra2)programs.I know you feel THX is a bunch of marketing hype/**** or however you feel,but they do offer the comsumer and Pros like me and you something to think about at least.I also knwo it's hard to get around that THX is needed.......it's not.There are planety of OTHER ways you can achive the same goal.
But in the end,it's a priority thing.How important is it to experience this art(and I will call it that)to the level of.......????

Troy one final note to you personally.........even though you and I battle,terms get tossed,butts come out of our pants and all,but I enjoy talking about all of this with you and respect your side of the fence so to speak.You have a very unique way of looking at things and I will admit you made me think about certian things......keep it real brother,
Dan

F1nut

I think you two need to get a room

Seriously, this has been interesting read. Troy asked some good questions and Dan, your last post is very good. I'm curious about the 2 channel/multi-channel possibilities and am at present in the camp that doesn't believe one can achieve both in one system, so I will watch for the review of yours. Have you had a customer job that was successful in that quest? If so, why?

mantis

F1nut,

I'm curious about the 2 channel/multi-channel possibilities and am at present in the camp that doesn't believe one can achieve both in one system, so I will watch for the review of yours. Have you had a customer job that was successful in that quest? If so, why?

Hard to answer that queston F1.I have heard many systems that sounded great for music that where in home theater setup.I really think this can be done.I know I can do it.One factor that I deleted from my room is having a TV/Big screen between the front mains.No reflection there as I am going to use a Stewart Firehawk fixed screen.The centerchannel will be on a stand.Or the possible hang it on the wall as the Lsi center is wal hangable.I have'nt tried that so I might to see how it performs.The stand I believe is the way to go.
But back to your question,I'll say Yes to it as I have heard many systems perform well for both in less then Ideal rooms.My room will be IDEAL,well as close as I can make it anyways......so,the quest goes on.
Thanks for the comments man.;)