IC Cables: Difference Between Source Cables And Amp/Preamp Cables?

Freak When C

Hi everyone at Club Polk. I'm not exactly new to Hi-Fi audio but I'm certainly no expert. I am, however, new to Club Polk and this is my first thread. I've lurked for a little while and am now glad to be aboard.

I have a question about cables. I know that good cables are important and while I don't have an endless budget to buy super high quality cables, I realize I should certainly get better cables than the cheap minimal RCA cables (like the kind that came free with most VCRs). I'm aware of Monoprice cables and I've also read about signalcable.com and BlueJeans cables. So I have a good start on where to get decent cables on a budget. But should the cables I buy to connect sources to my preamp be any different than the cables that run from the preamp to my power amp?

My preamp is a Parasound 2100 and I'm getting a pair of 200 watt monoblocks from my friend this weekend. I was wondering how I should hook everything up. I have a separate Rotel tuner, an Oppo DVD player for CD's and an old Luxman TT (the TT has RCA cables permanently attached that look rather cheap). So if I get RCA cables for my tuner and DVD player from like Bluejeans, I can order one more pair of the same kind to connect my amp to my preamp? Is that OK?

ben62670

Using the same cables is fine. You can fine tune things with different cables, but a step up over cheapies is a good start.

Face

It's good to have the same cables throughout.

zingo

If you are even a little handy with a soldering iron, you could install permanent RCA jacks on your TT so that you can use your own cables. It's a pretty cheap and easy project, and can really clean up the look of a component.

ben62670

I disagree. A hot CDP and a dark SACD can benefit from different cables.

Freak When C

Hey guys, excellent info. Thanks. I was unsure and so I felt it would be a good idea to ask. I was going to ask in the other thread (the one where OP speaks poor English) but there was so much off-topic chatter I felt it best to start my own thread.

Ben, I see you make your own cables. I think I'm going to order a couple sets of BlueJeans Cables first and then get a set from you to try out. Where would I hear the most difference, between one of my sources or between my pre and amp?

ben62670

Typically I tell people to burn in the cables between a source and pre(CDP and Pre) and then after about 80hrs move the cable between the pre and amp. The pre sends out a lower voltage signal that is more sensitive to cables than sources.
Enjoy.
Ben

Rocco1

zingo wrote: »

If you are even a little handy with a soldering iron, you could install permanent RCA jacks on your TT so that you can use your own cables. It's a pretty cheap and easy project, and can really clean up the look of a component.

I dont understand how this works can someone expand on this?
pictures possibly. I have never heard of this

Freak When C

That makes two of us. I was unaware you could do this as well. I mean I'm sure anything is possible but I just never heard of anyone doing this modification.

I also thought of something else you guys could perhaps clear up for me. I mentioned in my original post in this thread that my friend is giving me a pair of monoblock power amps (well he's giving me a really good deal on them). These are very powerful amps that put out 200 wpc and have the ability to drive very low impedance speakers. Here's what I'm unclear about:

1.) Will my IC cables get warm between the amp and pre with such a high current amp?

2.) Occasionally I like to crank up the volume. But will these monoblocks be overkill if I mostly play my music at moderate to low volume? And do you think they will still sound good at low volume?

3.) When playing at moderate to low volume, will these amps still be pulling a lot of juice or is it only when I'm really running them hard is when they suck juice out of the electrical outlet? I'm a little concerned my electric bill will go up substantially, but I'm thinking at low to moderate volume these may not use any more power than any other amp (except for the fact that they're mono amps and thus have separate power supplies). So am I correct in thinking low volume means low power consumption?

CoolJazz

Freak When C wrote: »

That makes two of us. I was unaware you could do this as well. I mean I'm sure anything is possible but I just never heard of anyone doing this modification.

I also thought of something else you guys could perhaps clear up for me. I mentioned in my original post in this thread that my friend is giving me a pair of monoblock power amps (well he's giving me a really good deal on them). These are very powerful amps that put out 200 wpc and have the ability to drive very low impedance speakers. Here's what I'm unclear about:

1.) Will my IC cables get warm between the amp and pre with such a high current amp?

2.) Occasionally I like to crank up the volume. But will these monoblocks be overkill if I mostly play my music at moderate to low volume? And do you think they will still sound good at low volume?

3.) When playing at moderate to low volume, will these amps still be pulling a lot of juice or is it only when I'm really running them hard is when they suck juice out of the electrical outlet? I'm a little concerned my electric bill will go up substantially, but I'm thinking at low to moderate volume these may not use any more power than any other amp (except for the fact that they're mono amps and thus have separate power supplies). So am I correct in thinking low volume means low power consumption?

1 - No. The high current is at the output of the amplifier. The connection between the preamp and power amp is a low power connection, typically not more than a handful of volts, with peaks, and low current at that.

2 - Hard to answer but if you ever demand the volume, then you need the power reserve for those times. Generally, low volume sound not being very compelling is more a speaker issue than an amp thing.

3 - If you have a string of lights over the sink in your bathroom, then you should probably be more concerned about having them on too long rather than the power an amp is going to use. And at lower volumes the draw isn't very significant.

You can add a pair of female RCA jacks to the output of a turntable if the existing situation is a longer cable from the tonearm. The caution is that the signal is very, very low in level and your adding one more connection to the signal path. You would be hoping that a good quality interconnect is better than the existing cable, enough to matter more than another pair of connectors in the path. If you do add the jack, then the interconnect overriding spec to look for is low capacitance cabling.

CoolJazz

Freak When C

You guys are really a great help. Thanks. So it sounds like whether I have 200 watt monoblocks or a 60 wpc integrated amp, the power draw is measurably insignificant? And either amp at low level volume is going to "not being very compelling" sound wise, depending on my speakers, correct?

Cool Jazz, I'm a little bit unclear. If the above is all correct, then would it also be correct to say that a 200 wpc amp needs to be played at a higher volume to sound good? I'm not talking about level, I'm talking volume. What I mean is, setting both amps, the 60 wpc and 200 wpc, at the same level (like say 3 or 4 or 1/3 the way up) the 200 wpc amp is most likely going to be outputting more juice to the speakers at that same level (1/3 the way up) and therefore playing louder than the 60 wpc amp. So I'm asking with all things being equal, to get nice sound you would need to turn the level up about 1/3 the way, which would translate to moderately high volume on a 200 wpc amp, is that correct?

Obviously y'all can tell I've never owned a high powered system before. My speakers are older Paradigm Export Monitors that I currently have hooked up to a 50 wpc amp. So I'm starting to wonder if I really need these 200 wpc monster monoblocks.

CoolJazz

Hi Freak,
What I was trying to say was that I would expect low level listening issues, if there is any, to be more likely from the speaker than the amp. Some speakers just don't light up and "work" until they get up in level past some threshold.
Every amp is certainly likely to be a little different at lower levels, as every amp has different topologies and parts differences. But at lower listening levels, those differences would likely be minimized. But you'll have to just judge for yourself between your amps as to what works to your liking.
Enjoy your new amp and don't worry about it not working. It'll make music, never fear!!

CoolJazz

mmadden28

A better amp with loads of reserve power will sound better at low volumes compared to an inadequate amp. And it will likely also sound better when you push them louder. The speakers will pull what they need from the amp-you control that with the volume control. Its not like you'll be feeding 200 Watts to the speakers at low volumes--its there for when the spekaers demand it.

As far as how much juice an amp pulls from the wall--that all depends on the Class of amp. Class A pulling lots vs Class D very little when idle, and whether its SS or Tube. I think I have that right, perhaps somebody with more certain knowledge can chime in here.

Welcome to Club Polk Freak when C (what does that mean anyway?) and CoolJazz!!

F1nut

I'm a little concerned my electric bill will go up substantially

No offense, but if that's a concern, you're in the wrong hobby.


That said, it would be helpful if you told us the make and model of the mono blocks.

Freak When C

Well thanks for the added info. I'm sure these are going to sound good. I just never had this quality of equipment, nor the power. I'm pretty geeked about getting them. I know they are not exactly the most efficient amps when it comes to energy use but I just hope they don't double my electric bill. :eek:

mmadden28 wrote: »

As far as how much juice an amp pulls from the wall--that all depends on the Class of amp. Class A pulling lots vs Class D very little when idle, and whether its SS or Tube. I think I have that right, perhaps somebody with more certain knowledge can chime in here.

When you say "lots vs Class D" are we talking like more than a 100 watts when idle? I know that these are Class A until 15 watts then they are class A/B after that. So does that sound like it will really draw the juice?

mmadden28 wrote: »

Welcome to Club Polk Freak when C (what does that mean anyway?)

Thanks for the warm welcome. My username; it means nothing really, just another way of saying "Frequency" (say it fast all together Freak-When-C). I thought it was kinda different, so I went with it. Perhaps a bit corny? :rolleyes:

ben62670

Hey freak where are you at?

Freak When C

F1nut wrote: »

No offense, but if that's a concern, you're in the wrong hobby.


That said, it would be helpful if you told us the make and model of the mono blocks.

Yeah, good point, i guess I'm worrying a little too much about it. And besides, others have calmed my concerns saying it's not likely to increase my bill substantially.

As far as the make and model... I do not recall at the moment. I'm going over his house Sunday to pick them up. I'll let ya know then. I only seen them once and really was paying more attention to how they sounded, which was really nice. I don't believe they're some really new model, but until I get back over there i can't say for sure. Why, is there a certain make or model I should steer clear of?

Freak When C

ben62670 wrote: »

Hey freak where are you at?

I'm located in Michigan. about 30 minutes north of the Ohio/Michigan line and about 20 minutes or so south of Detroit. It's call the "Downriver Area". I guess I should have put that in my profile. :rolleyes:

F1nut

Why, is there a certain make or model I should steer clear of?

Well, there are definitely great, good and lousy amps out there.

Freak When C

I'd call him and ask but it's kind of late here (after midnight). If it was lousy, he would tell me and it would have sounded lousy, I would think.

I will know for sure Sunday, I could even post a few pics if you guys want. In the mean time, I really would like to know what lousy ones to steer clear of, or is that a long list?

Freak When C

hey Ben, any particular reason you asked where I'm at?

ben62670

You are asking about cables, and if you are near some of the members here maybe you could get a listen. A fellow Polkie came over my place with a handful of cables to let me check out;)

Freak When C

Ah, well let me ask you, right now I only have the cheapest non-hi-tech IC cables that exist. The little gray kind that you can buy a Radio Shack with the silver metal RCA plugs. Should I wait to get at least some decent cables from BlueJeans or is it OK to hook up my system as soon as I get it with what I have?

ben62670

Run it for now with what you have. It won't hurt anything unless there is a failure. You definitely want better cables.
Ben

Freak When C

Thanks Ben, I'm certainly planning on it. What are your thoughts though about the fact that my TT has RCA cables permanently attached and they look to be of sub-par quality? Perhaps I should consider upgrading my TT?

Also, I only have an Oppo DVD player for CD's right now. So I obviously don't have the greatest source for CDs. Still worth the higher quality IC cables for that configuration? Tuner too? Run all quality IC connects everywhere throughout the system or only if you have high quality components?

BlueFox

Freak When C wrote: »

Ah, well let me ask you, right now I only have the cheapest non-hi-tech IC cables that exist. The little gray kind that you can buy a Radio Shack with the silver metal RCA plugs. Should I wait to get at least some decent cables from BlueJeans or is it OK to hook up my system as soon as I get it with what I have?

ben62670 wrote: »

Run it for now with what you have. It won't hurt anything unless there is a failure. You definitely want better cables.
Ben

A benefit of doing this is it will let you get used to the sound of the inexpensive cables. Then, after you upgrade cables, you will hear a positive difference, and realize that cables do matter.

ben62670

Yep.

Freak When C

You guys are really a great bunch. Thanks so much for all the help.

I was taught (by my dad) when shopping for an item to never buy the cheapest, but also don't go for the absolute most expensive. When multiple models exist, go middle of the road. BlueJeans has several different models of IC RCA cables. Can you guys suggest a good middle of the road cable I should get for my tuner (Rotel) DVD player (Oppo) and for connecting my pre (Parasound 2100) to my Monoblock amps (unsure yet of make and model).

If you prefer Signal I'd also be thankful for recommendations for theirs as well.

P.S. I do plan to upgrade to a better CDP at some point.

Freak When C

OK, I read in another thread that the Belden cables are really good. But which ones? The Belden 1505F (smaller, more economical, higher capacitance) or the Belden 1694A (less flexible, good choice if RFI is a problem)? Or should I just get their BJC LC-1 Stereo Audio Cables (our favorite)? Do you guys normally forgo the Techflex Braided Cable Jacket?

If ordering from SignalCable, the obvious middle of the road is their Analog Two cables. Would those be a good cable and worth the slightly extra cost, or would would you suggest saving a few dollars and getting the Analog One (which is about the same price as the BlueJeans Belden cables)?

fbm211

You could also check out ebay and audiogon for Used cables.Most often you will pay Half of what you would new.You cant go wrong with audioquest and I even see signal cables pop up from time to time.Hell, even canare 4S11 speaker cables are awsome and you could make em yourself.Its a great starter cable for around a buck a foot.Add some shrink tube,tech-flex, and screw on spades or nanners and you got a great pair of 6-8 footers for under 50.00....

Freak When C

fbm211 wrote: »

You could also check out ebay and audiogon for Used cables. Most often you will pay Half of what you would new.

Thanks, but the problem with that is I really am not experienced enough to know what cables are really good and which are just so-so. And I have no problem buying used gear, but used cables? Don't cables eventually wear out? I think it might be better to go for new when it comes to cables. Which is why I started this thread.

I'd really appreciate it if Ben, BlueFox, F1nut or anyone else could help me choose which ones to get from BlueJeans or Signal Cables. Please refer to the questions I asked in my prior post (post #29) in this thread. Thanks guys.