Apc

Rocco1

Does anyone out there own any APC all in one power centers.
I am looking at the s-type 10

http://www.apc.com/products/apcav/products/index.cfm?action=detail&base_sku=S10BLK

Just wondered if anyone can give me and positive or negative feedback.
I think for the money that getting power cond, surge protection, voltage stab, and battery backup in one unit is amazing. Seems to beat monster power hands down.

jinjuku

Rocco1 wrote: »

Does anyone out there own any APC all in one power centers.
I am looking at the s-type 10

http://www.apc.com/products/apcav/products/index.cfm?action=detail&base_sku=S10BLK

Just wondered if anyone can give me and positive or negative feedback.
I think for the money that getting power cond, surge protection, voltage stab, and battery backup in one unit is amazing. Seems to beat monster power hands down.

I wish I could respond with specific experience ( I can't) but since you are looking at UPS and AVR/Line conditioning check out Tripplite.

Hope it helps...

mantis

I have Installed them many times with good results. I haven't had one go bad. Use typically use pananax but in some jobs we use APC. I like them.

Dan

TNRabbit

I have an APC J-10 and have had zero issues with it. Works well.

BigMac

Hi. I purchased a Monster HTS-1000 (originally I bought a HTS-950 but returned it and got the 1000 instead) and an APC H-15 within a few weeks of each other. Both products work as stated and I use the APC in my ht/2 channel setup while my son is using the Monster. I tried both for a few days switching back and forth and did notice a difference between the two for audio quality. It took alot of serious listening to notice there was a difference and I could not put my finger on exactly what it was in the beginning. In the end though this is what the difference was imo. The APC seemed to smooth the sound out a little while the Monster seemed to add a little brightness. I did notice an overall improvement in sound from both which makes the music sound "cleaner". To sum it up I would say for both brands that after extended listening I realized there is a blacker background and the music has a more relaxed,fluid,smooth presentation. Imo the APC has the slight edge overall due to the sound and additional features over the Monster.

BigMac

I wanted to put this link in my previous post but I can't. The link is for very good pics of the inside of the APC H-15.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sbwoodside/sets/72157615782609761/

Rocco1

Does anyone know what the big difference is between the h j and s series
i think the s and j have the battery back up and the h doesnt.
other wise i cant really tell.

BigMac

Taken directly from the APC dealer page:

Question: what are the main differences between the S-Series and the H-Series?
Answer: Fundamentally, the difference between the S Types and H Types is that the S has a battery and the H does not (other than the looks of the units).
So anyone with a DLP display, automation system, lighting system or media servers, should be using the S because those are the applications which really require a battery.


Question: When the S10 or S15 go to battery mode, can the system email the owner?
Answer: No. At this time it does not have that capability.


Question: On the H10, there is a measurement for "Let Through Voltage Rating < 40". Is that Voltage? It seems awfully low to only let 40V pass when most equipment needs 110-120V.
Answer: "Let-Through Voltage" is a surge protection rating. So, of course we let through 120 normally, but if you have a spike (at approximately 6,000 volts and 2,000 amps) we will only "let through" an additional 40 volts or so, so 160v in those cases. This rating is a UL safety rating and is a much better gauge than a Joules rating which is typically used in the AV world.


Question: What is the Voltage Regulation for the H-Series?
Answer: The units can operate on transformer in the 90v-140v range while still providing the appropriate 115v-120v to your gear down stream.


Question: What To Do When Your Smart-UPS Says "Replace Battery"?
Answer: http://nam-en.apc.com/cgi-bin/nam_en.cfg/php/.....

Question: Why doesn't my UPS work? I just bought it.
Answer: All UPS systems are shipped with the battery disconnected. You will have to connect the battery first for it to work properly


Question: Can we air ship your product, is there an issues with batteries?
Answer: No issues with air shipping the product. The battery ships disconnected, which allows is to do this.

NewHTguy

I've also been thinking of getting a conditioner. Was wondering if the battery does anything to assist in the conditioning, or is it merely reserve power?

Rocco1, hope you don't mind me jumping on the thread.

NewHTguy

Btw, isit safe to place another component on top of a power conditioner? Do they get hot?

heiney9

I recently added an APC H15 to my system. Mainly for the surge protection and I like that it regulated the voltage as at times it may have to boost/trim based on the recepticle. For audio I didn't notice any difference, but for video I noticed a bit of sharpening, less noise a little better black background.

I've only had it hooked up about a week. I was worried it was going to alter my rig's sound for the worse as very minute changes in cables, noise, etc. can be heard easily on my rig. It actually got rid of a very slight buzz I was hearing whne putting my ear up to the SDA's. If anything it might have a slightly blacker background

Overall, I'm very, very pleased at the features, look, build quality and the ability for it to not in any way alter the sound of my rig. Also the extra sharp cable signal is a plus.

I say go for it as this particular unit which retails for $399 and is the exact same as a Rotel model (just re-branded) which sells for $499 or more. It's a very nicely built, looks cool has a ton of user settings and seems to do what it advertises.

H9

P.s. to answer the above questions.............this (H15) has no battery back-up.

heiney9

NewHTguy wrote: »

I've also been thinking of getting a conditioner. Was wondering if the battery does anything to assist in the conditioning, or is it merely reserve power?

Rocco1, hope you don't mind me jumping on the thread.

Merely reserve, nothing to do with the conditioning

NewHTguy

Just read a nice review of the H15

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/power-conditioners/apc-h15

The reviewer (and APC) suggested that it might not play nice with subs and amps. Some of the technical discussion went over my head. Do you guys think I would have trouble with my Lsi25s since they have built in (sub)amps?

BigMac

Hey heiney9 or anyone really, have a ? maybe you know the answer to. For more expensive ups I have seen several threads other places mentioning double conversion. Here is an example post of what I mean.

The most expensive UPSs use a "double conversion" approach. In this type, the batteries are always "on line", so to speak. They are part of a double conversion, pure sine wave inverter circuit. In these models, the components connected to the UPS never "see" the actual household or line AC; rather, the AC gets completely converted to DC, which then goes through a high quality pure sine wave inverter to produce a very clean and stable 120V RMS AC sine wave output. Hence the name "double conversion", meaning the power goes from AC to DC and back to AC again, all of the time. These units will actually be able to "clean up" degraded power line voltage, by producing an output that may be of higher quality than the incoming AC, due to this "double conversion" approach. These type are often used in critical commercial or research applications.

Any truth to the "clean up" claim? Thanks for any input on this.

**DK, where are ya?**

heiney9

BigMac wrote: »

Hey heiney9, have a ? maybe you know the answer to. For more expensive ups I have seen several threads other places mentioning double conversion. Here is an example post of what I mean.

The most expensive UPSs use a "double conversion" approach. In this type, the batteries are always "on line", so to speak. They are part of a double conversion, pure sine wave inverter circuit. In these models, the components connected to the UPS never "see" the actual household or line AC; rather, the AC gets completely converted to DC, which then goes through a high quality pure sine wave inverter to produce a very clean and stable 120V RMS AC sine wave output. Hence the name "double conversion", meaning the power goes from AC to DC and back to AC again, all of the time. These units will actually be able to "clean up" degraded power line voltage, by producing an output that may be of higher quality than the incoming AC, due to this "double conversion" approach. These type are often used in critical commercial or research applications.

Any truth to this? Thanks for any input on this.

I believe those are typically referred to as "Regenerators" and they actually take the signal out of the wall and convert it to DC and then back to AC. Sort of like a water filter would do on your faucet. These are typically very expensive and the APC's in question in this thread use batteries for back-up purposes only not to "regenerate" the wall electricity. I can't comment on their effectiveness. My brother just bought a PS Audio regenerator so maybe after he gets it hooked up I can add my comments about how effective it is.

H9

BigMac

heiney9 wrote: »

I believe those are typically referred to as "Regenerators" and they actually take the signal out of the wall and convert it to DC and then back to AC. Sort of like a water filter would do on your faucet. These are typically very expensive and the APC's in question in this thread use batteries for back-up purposes only not to "regenerate" the wall electricity.

H9

Ok cool, thanks for the clarification and terminology. I didn't think the batteries did anything more than keep your equipment on for a few more minutes, but thought I would ask anyway.

On a side note I did call APC to ask about the cable tv protection since I saw some posts regarding issues with it. What I was told is that the H-15 is for analog only and that it's not for digital tv. Others have hooked it up and it has worked but have had "freeze" issues. The tech had not heard of this but repeated that the H-15 is for analog only and not digital.

jinjuku

NewHTguy wrote: »

I've also been thinking of getting a conditioner. Was wondering if the battery does anything to assist in the conditioning, or is it merely reserve power?

Rocco1, hope you don't mind me jumping on the thread.

A lot of units have AVR (Automatic Voltage Regulation) so regulation is present. They won't let the power sag or spike past certain points.

jinjuku

NewHTguy wrote: »

Just read a nice review of the H15

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/power-conditioners/apc-h15

The reviewer (and APC) suggested that it might not play nice with subs and amps. Some of the technical discussion went over my head. Do you guys think I would have trouble with my Lsi25s since they have built in (sub)amps?

Normally you shouldn't use UPS's (un-interuptable power systems) with items like amps and printers. They can simply draw too much current at some point.

Amps usually have protection circuitry built in. The best thing to do is contact your specific manufacturer.

I run a HTPC. That sits on a battery backup that also has a Surge/Conditioner (no battery backup) side. This non-battery side is what I have my receiver and amps plugged into.

Check out this link from sweetwater.com

NewHTguy

Thanks Jinjuku

Rocco1

It looks like that the APCs are the way to go.

Question is, when you end up going with a high demand amp like an ADCOM multi-channel(which is suppose to have a dedicated 20amp circuit) how do you protect it? Is there no all in power center that can handle these types of demand?

reeltrouble1

Some just do without.

Shunyata is one brand to use.

Running Springs another.

The PS Audio Soloist is on my list of things to try, see DK's review.

RT1

heiney9

Rocco1 wrote: »

It looks like that the APCs are the way to go.

Question is, when you end up going with a high demand amp like an ADCOM multi-channel(which is suppose to have a dedicated 20amp circuit) how do you protect it? Is there no all in power center that can handle these types of demand?

Not sure if they *are* the way to go, but I have no complaints especially the ridiculous price I bought it for. I will eventually get a PS Audio for the 2ch rig and move the APC H15 into the office/computer rig. For now I'm very satisfied with how it's performing and it looks cool too!

I doubt you'd have much issue with a multi-channel amp unless you were running it full bore (clipping lights flashing) for hours on end. One feature the H15 has is the display can show you how much draw all the components are pulling. Right now I'm at 12-14% (of the power centers capabilities) and even at high volumes I don't use more than 25% of the power centers capabilities to provide current, amps, wattage, conditioned power,etc.

Every morning I wake up and see the "power trim" indicator lit with an input voltage of 129 and a stabilised output voltage of 122. It will also boost if there is a sag on incoming voltage and the range is user adjustable.....meaning you can have a tight range of boost/trim or a loose range or boost/trim.

I'd highly recommend this for an HT set-up, even the most demanding, and so far there are no downsides for a higher end 2 channel rig.

H9

reeltrouble1

I did shut my theater down with a supposed high current "amp" outlet in my ht power center, if I recall it was the elephant footfalls in LOTR--Return of the King, was running at reference when it happened. The subs I had at that time were booming as well and were also plugged into the power center.

RT1

heiney9

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

I did shut my theater down with a supposed high current "amp" outlet in my ht power center, if I recall it was the elephant footfalls in LOTR--Return of the King, was running at reference when it happened. The subs I had at that time were booming as well and were also plugged into the power center.

RT1

I guess I didn't think about a dual sub set-up as well as amps plugged into a power center. That certainly could over power a power center. If that's the case perhaps (2) power centers are in order or just plug the subs into a wall outlet.

Rocco1

Would getting the s20 rig with the battery backup and a overall more capable unit help in powering componets like amps?

I have a big plans, and 3 ADCOM amps(2 - 2channels and 1 multichannel) are in my future. I want to make sure they are running and protected correctly.

heiney9

Well with those kinds of components you're probably going to need more than one power center.

The battery has nothing to do with it being more capable beyond providing short term power if the power fails. This give you a chance to power down sensitive items like computers (allows you to save work) and perhaps some of the newer TV's. That's all the battery provides. If it were me I'd dump the battery capabilities for the HT and concentrate on getting more features that are relevent to your use.

TNRabbit

You need a power center that will cover the total MAX draw of all components plugged into it (good luck; with some amps, you'd need a 50 amp circuit to do that!).

heiney9

All I can say is try a single unit. Most breaker service in a typical house is 15-20 amp per circuit and unless you're running everything at MAX you'll never come close to drawing more than 15-20 amps. What's the point of having a power center rated for 50amps (or multiple PC's) when the wall can only deliver 15?

In extreme cases dedicated circuits are nice insurance and may even be necessary. For (3) Adcom amps one rugged, higher rated power center will be more than adequate.

TNRabbit's comments is a little bit of hyperbole. In theory 50 amps MAX is the drawing capability..........but in reality you'll never come close to that and as I stated if you do....you're typical wall outlet will be the bottle neck not the power center.

I have always been leary of using the lesser expensive power conditioners...........but so far I am pleasently surprised at the performance of the APC H15.

H9

P.s. when I say lesser I mean <$500

Rocco1

Well after more research the multi channel adcom amps even come with a special 20 amp pug so it looks like i am back to square one.

I have found some power conditioning outlets for the wall, and i suppose i could up grade to a house surge protection circuit breaker box...i was considering that.

heiney9

Rocco1 wrote: »

Well after more research the multi channel adcom amps even come with a special 20 amp pug so it looks like i am back to square one.

Why? Have you not read anything here . I certainly don't think you can buy an el cheapo power strip, but a mid-line power conditioner like an APC H15 or Panamax or other well respected conditioner will be enough for your application.

Rocco1

heiney9 wrote: »

Why? Have you not read anything here . I certainly don't think you can buy an el cheapo power strip, but a mid-line power conditioner like an APC H15 or Panamax or other well respected conditioner will be enough for your application.

Because, Heiney

This is straight from the adcom site for the 7805

Please note: This amplifier is supplied with a 20 amp AC plug and requires a dedicated 20 amp 120V AC circuit with a 20 amp 120V receptacle. Note that the plug and required receptacle are not the same as the standard 15 amp plug and receptacle found on most electric products and household outlets. We suggest you consult an electrician if you are uncertain about the capacity of your electrical circuit and the required receptacle.

That is WHY!