Chillin with an ICE amp!!!

pearsall001

I've been giving a lot of thought of picking up a 3 channel ICE amp. I'm one that doesn't mind trying something a little less traditional. The WYRED 4 SOUND product lines are the one's I'm most focused on, in particular the MC3x250 (250w@8ohm & 550w@ 4ohm) & the MC3x500 (570w@8ohm & 1140w@4ohm).

My current monitors are 86db @ 8ohm, & I run them with dual Velo SPL 1200-R subs (1000w ICE amps). My sticky point is which amp would better suit my needs. I know there's no such thing as having too much power, especially when it comes to headroom, but with dual subs pulling bass duty my mains are less power craving. My listening levels are low to mid volumn levels, I never crank it so to speak. What do you guys think...would the MC3x500 be overkill & needless coin spent or would the MC3x250 be a good fit.

Now this might sound a bit corny, but I'm also thinking about my electric bill, now & down the road (cap & trade anyone?). Those massive class A/AB beasts suck up electricity like there's no tomorrow. It's not that I'm any greener than the next guy, but I'm the one writing the check every month to the electric company, & the less the better.

mantis

I checked out the site, why not also check out Rotels amps. they have a nice line of ice amps.

Hilbert

Rotel 1575 weighs about half what the wyred 4 sound 5X250 weighs --- anyone have an idea why this would be? Or if it matters?

ps it's something like 20 lbs vs. 40 lbs

danz1906

Looks like a good Amp, I say go for it:D

pearsall001

mantis wrote: »

I checked out the site, why not also check out Rotels amps. they have a nice line of ice amps.

The Rotel line looks great too...except they don't have a 3 channel amp. I'm really looking into a 3 channel amp. A 5 channel is always a possibility buy for now I prefer a 3 channel.

cfrizz

Hey Phil? According to ADT over at Audioholics, what are you going to do when said amp only puts out about 50 continuous wpc rather than 500?:eek::p:D

They just don't get it over there.

Gene is preparing an article to post on Monday about how most of these companies are taking the generic ice modules from B & O putting them in fancy boxes & charging premium prices because of their names.

I know some of you won't like it, but I'm hoping companies like Outlaw & Emo decide to get in the game & produce the amps for more reasonable prices.

Let us know what you get Phil, & how it sounds!:)

pearsall001

cfrizz wrote: »

Hey Phil? According to ADT over at Audioholics, what are you going to do when said amp only puts out about 50 continuous wpc rather than 500?:eek::p:D

They just don't get it over there.

Gene is preparing an article to post on Monday about how most of these companies are taking the generic ice modules from B & O putting them in fancy boxes & charging premium prices because of their names.

I know some of you won't like it, but I'm hoping companies like Outlaw & Emo decide to get in the game & produce the amps for more reasonable prices.

Let us know what you get Phil, & how it sounds!:)

Hey Cathy, I saw that article mentioned over there. It sounds like it'll be a very informative read. And you're right...a lot of guys just don't get it. That was the first response to my post...clueless comes to mind.

Sherardp

Hey Cathy,

I agree with you. If youre considering Wyred4Sound, I highly suggest D-sonic. Dennis is a great guy to work with there, and his amps use the same B&O modules as well.

Just looked at his prices too, dont quite remember paying that much for my 1000S.

cfrizz

Oh my Sunfire is going NOWHERE! At least not right now. But one never knows do one?

heiney9

My singled ended class A amp idles at a little over 200 watts. Which is a lot for a 30wpc amp, but I have not noticed any significant jump in my electric bill and even used one of those Kill-a-watt meters LINKY and there was no significant draw; it amounted to a buck or two at the end of 30 days.

A typical A/B amp of the 200wpc variety draws less than 1/2 of the above example, just idling (probably in the neighborhood or 40-80watts). So the idea of switching to ICE amps to save on electricity is a moot point entirely. Unless you're running 20-30 class A amps 24/7.

At this point in time I have 30wpc and don't feel the need for more as I can easily reach 90-93+dB w/o any compression or loss of detail or harshness w/my SDA 1C's in a medium sized listening area. (it's all in the design, baby!) and I could go higher if I wanted. So perhaps the lesser of the 2 ICE amp choices is sufficient as far as rated manufacturer wattage.

YMMV

H9

P.s. I'm running 13wpc (tube hybrid integrated) in my office rig with 5B's and easily reach 87+dB w/o any issues in a smaller room.

heiney9

There is a distinct possibility you won't like the final sound of an ICE amp. But experimentation in your listening environment is always the key to making an informed decision. Keep us posted.

Sherardp

cfrizz wrote: »

Hey Phil? According to ADT over at Audioholics, what are you going to do when said amp only puts out about 50 continuous wpc rather than 500?:eek::p:D

They just don't get it over there.

Where are they getting these measurements? I'm curious as to I have a D-Sonic 1000S and it is rated @ 525 wpc. Also what about the Elite line up, they are using B&O modules as well. Does that mean the power spec is way lower than advertised?

heiney9

Do any of you guys realize how much filter capacitance and the size of the power supply it takes to reproduce a "true" 300, 400, 500, 700, 1000 wpc? So yes, I would say I'd suspect the manufacturer data as being inflated (atleast for everyday normal application/operation). I say this for every type of product not just picking on ICE amps.

Systems

heiney9 wrote: »

Do any of you guys realize how much filter capacitance and the size of the power supply it takes to reproduce a "true" 300, 400, 500, 700, 1000 wpc? So yes, I would say I'd suspect the manufacturer data as being inflated (atleast for everyday normal application/operation). I say this for every type of product not just picking on ICE amps.

Huge supply capacitance is not necessary with Class D amps (like most of the B&O modules)that utilize switch mode power supplies(SMPS).This because the frequencies they are filtering are much higher than the 120hz of a normal linear supply.

Systems

pearsall001 wrote: »

Those massive class A/AB beasts suck up electricity like there's no tomorrow. It's not that I'm any greener than the next guy, but I'm the one writing the check every month to the electric company, & the less the better.

They will be less power hungry with rated efficiency levels in the 90% range they will use 9/10 ths of the power they draw from the wall and deliver it to the speaker.Typical Class A/B designs are about 40-50% with Class A about half of that.They sound good but most of their power consumption is lost to heat due to the hi bias currents needed.

heiney9

GV#27 wrote: »

Huge supply capacitance is not necessary with Class D amps (like most of the B&O modules)that utilize switch mode power supplies(SMPS).This because the frequencies they are filtering are much higher than the 120hz of a normal linear supply.

Yeah, I was thinking about that after I posted in my haste (couldn't edit). I realize with switching PS's that higher output is achieved w/o the use of large banks of filters and a huge PS. I still am not convinced (IMO) that they achieve these kind of "real" world outputs of power printed in the manual.

I have no axe to grind with ICE amps in general, I'm just as skeptical about other claims made in audio and won't know for sure until I try it.

heiney9

GV#27 wrote: »

They will be less power hungry with rated efficiency levels in the 90% range they will use 9/10 ths of the power they draw from the wall and deliver it to the speaker.Typical Class A/B designs are about 40-50% with Class A about half of that.They sound good but most of their power consumption is lost to heat due to the hi bias currents needed.

Absolutely..........I was just pointing out in my personal experience moving from a "typical" A/B amp to a pure Class A amp I noticed almost no difference in my electric bill. I suspect the same to be true switching to the even more efficient ICE amps. I doubt one would see much reduction beyond a couple dollars.

If one want's to split hairs............sure my bill is higher but not by much more than a couple dollars a month and I did track the usage using the Kill-A-Watt I referred to earlier to find out how much draw the amp was using for a typical billing cycle.

nooshinjohn

forgive my obvious stupidity here but just what is an ICE amp and what makes them the latest flavor of the month?:o

Systems

I'll add that a linear supply can be also be used with a ClassD design , in which case like Class A & A/B larger filter capacitance is benificial.

Systems

nooshinjohn wrote: »

forgive my obvious stupidity here but just what is an ICE amp and what makes them the latest flavor of the month?:o

ICE is an acronym for Inteligent,Compact,Efficient.It is a proprietary Class D amp topology developed by Bang and Olufsen and sold to several companies that repackage the modules in their own custom chassis.

cfrizz

Heiney, I think everyone realizes that nothing is going full blast all the time, nor do we want it to. But what I think some of these companies are now realizing with real world knowledge is that all music, movies etc has periods where things can get very loud and require a brief burst of power to handle it. So they are making products to fill that need.

I think that some simply are resisting to adjust to the changing landscape happening in the audio world.

Nooshin, I firmly believe in time the ice amp is the future for all receivers and amplifiers.

Yes there are some who will always want their great big "man amps", or stick with their tubes. But the rest of us will want lighter more powerful receivers and amps to give us better performance of our music & movies.

Systems

cfrizz wrote: »

I think some of these companies are now realizing with real world knowledge is that all music, movies etc has periods where things can get very loud and require a brief burst of power to handle it.

Bob Carver(and others) figured that out a long time ago when he first marketed his Mega watt Phase Linear designs.;)

reeltrouble1

cfrizz wrote: »

Yes there are some who will always want their great big "man amps", or stick with their tubes.

Long Live the Big Tubed Man Amp Men and the Women Who Love Them.

I am RT1.

FTR--RT1 owns an ICE amp!!!!!!