Accelerated SACD burn-in

BlueFox

The point of this post is to not start a debate on the subject, but rather to find the best way to accomplish it. If burn-in does make a difference then I may as well get there as soon as possible. At the rate I am going it will take around a year to reach 250 hours on my SACD player since I mostly listen to my music server. Usually, I play one new CD a night to see if it is worthy of being loaded onto the server, and even that does not happen every night . Sometimes on the weekend I might play a few more CDs.

Anyway, I have a two questions on rapid burn-in. If I put the SACD player on repeat, and replay the CD all day while I am at work, does the pre-amp also have to be on? In other words, if the pre-amp is off is the CD sending any signal though its circuits?

Second, if I just play a CD will that burn-in also be all that is needed for SACD, or do I need to burn-in both a CD and an SACD?

WilliamM2

You need to use the right CD.

http://www.musicdirect.com/product/73160

BlueFox

WilliamM2 wrote: »

You need to use the right CD.

http://www.musicdirect.com/product/73160

LOL. I already have that CD. That is why I was wondering if a CD would be okay, or if an SACD was needed. While I did not buy it for burn-in, it occurred to me that if anything would do the job it would.

The reason why I bought it is because my pre-amp allows the gain to be set, +/-, independant of the volume control, on each channel. It occurred to me if I could find a CD that would play a signal solely on the left channel, and then the same signal on the right channel, I could use my SPL meter, make sure I had equal levels in my listening position, and, if not, make the appropriate adjustment. However, that is the one thing lacking from this CD.

F1nut

In other words, if the pre-amp is off is the CD sending any signal though its circuits?

I take it you mean the SACD/CD player's circuits. The answer would be yes, but see below.

Second, if I just play a CD will that burn-in also be all that is needed for SACD, or do I need to burn-in both a CD and an SACD?

That will depend if the CD and SACD circuits are completely separate as in most high end players or bundled together as in most others.

BlueFox

F1nut wrote: »

That will depend if the CD and SACD circuits are completely separate as in most high end players or bundled together as in most others.

That is pretty much what I was thinking. I have no idea if the level of commonality is 90%, or just the final output stage. I really wanted to use the CD above since if anything would exercise the circuits it is that CD. But if it is just going to hit mostly the CD circuits then it is not very useful since I run the CD digital out into a DAC. Only SACD uses the analog path. So, I think I will use DSOTM for burn-in. That is a pretty intense SACD with a wide dynamic range.

I am really glad I do not have to leave the pre-amp on to do this. Now I only have to worry about wearing the SACD player out by constantly running it.

Thanks.

Danny Tse

BlueFox wrote: »

Only SACD uses the analog path. So, I think I will use DSOTM for burn-in. That is a pretty intense SACD with a wide dynamic range.

But that will not optimally break in the SACD circuitries unless the process is done with a SACD designed for that purpose....

SACD Break In Disc



Just kidding....DSOTM will be more than sufficient.

DarqueKnight

I asked Cary Audio about burn in requirements for my CD 306 Pro SACD player and they said the CD and SACD circuits are separate and each would require 300 hours of break in.

The only SACD break in disk I have been able to find is the one Danny mentions. I did not purchase it because it is just an ordinary music SACD rather than a test tone oriented SACD, and I wanted something that would actually accelerate the SACD break in process. I did purchase the Isotek burn in CD off eBay for $30 inclusive of shipping. They also sell them at musicdirect.com for $35 + shipping.

Isotek CD claims a break in acceleration of 3X, or 1 hour on the break in CD equals 3 hours of CD playback. I used it 10 hours/day for 15 days and didn't hear any improvement playing the Isotek CD after that.*

The 1:3 ratio seemed to be valid, as this 150 hours corresponded to 450 hours, which when added to the 40 hours of playback prior to acquiring the Isotek disk, roughly equaled the 500 hours (2.5 months, 7-10 hours per day) needed for the SACD circuitry.

Isotek does not make an SACD break in disk and they do not plan to offer one in the future. They say they don't see much demand for it.

---

*I did hear a further improvement in the SACD player's sound after I applied vibration damping treatment.

reeltrouble1

I just played music through mine.

Enjoyed myself the whole time.

RT1

steveinaz

Plug it into 220v; it will spin twice as fast, cutting break-in time by 50%.

jmwest1970

steveinaz wrote: »

Plug it into 220v; it will spin twice as fast, cutting break-in time by 50%.

:eek: You ain't right!

I'm sure that my Cambridge Audio DVD89 has common circuits as I did the burn in with a standard CD. I didn't own any SACDs at the time. After picking some up I've found that they sound wonderful as well. I don't know the specifics of a burn-in CD, but I think using music, specifically music with a digital source and wide dynamic range, will work for burn in. I used Spies - The Music Of Espionage on my player.

steveinaz

But seriously,
Electronics take awhile to stabilize, some components more than others. There's no voo-doo to it, it's a fact that temperature effects the performance of certain components. Anyone who would attempt to argue that point simply needs some electronics 101 classes.

Hawkeye

I purchased a pre amp in January. It was on the UPS truck for 3 days coming out of New York. When it got here and I opened it, it was so cold I could barely touch it. There was notice in the box to allow the piece to come to room temp before plugging it in.

It took 2 days for the preamp to get to a temp I felt comfortable with before hooking up and plugging it in. I couldn't imagine throwing the heat to those ice cold tubes and electronics. I even allowed my speakers to come to room temp for a day. That was the hardest part, waiting for them to warm up with no music other than, kill me for saying it, a Wave Radio bought by the better half! It is 5 years old and still don't think the burn in is complete.

Gordon

BlueFox

DSOTM is now running on repeatt/shuffle until 9PM. Then disk 2 of The Essential Midori will play, and after that DSOTM goes back to work. I wonder if I should do this 27/7, or give the player a few hours time off every day.

steveinaz

I just let my stuff break-in over time--I don't sweat it too much.

reeltrouble1

I am thinking in your quite unique case and world 24/7, leaving three hours of rest each day.

RT1

Systems

BlueFox wrote: »

I have no idea if the level of commonality is 90%, or just the final output stage. I really wanted to use the CD above since if anything would exercise the circuits it is that CD. But if it is just going to hit mostly the CD circuits then it is not very useful since I run the CD digital out into a DAC. Only SACD uses the analog path.

In CD/SACD combo players there are separate processor IC's for each formats specialized data.Most players will use the same digital to analog converter sections and analog output stages for both formats.

lightman1

Fox. You didn't say if this was a factory fresh unit with no time on it, or one that has been used for a while. Sometimes that can be a big difference.
Plug it in and let it settle down or plug it in and enjoy. ??

BlueFox

lightman1 wrote: »

Fox. You didn't say if this was a factory fresh unit with no time on it, or one that has been used for a while. Sometimes that can be a big difference.
Plug it in and let it settle down or plug it in and enjoy. ??

I have had it (Sony SCD-XA5400ES) for a few months and I would guess it has roughly 50 hours of play time. It is playing now after burning in DSOTM all day. I am actually listening to the CD analog versus using the Dac1 for CD. The reason; stereophile May 2009, arrived today, and it had a great preliminary review, starting on page 47, for both SACD and CD playback. So, I thought I would give the CD part a chance instead of going straight to the DAC. My main reason for buying this player was so I can play SACDs in my living room 2 channel system.

I do not know whether burn-in will make it better or not. Not going to go there. Wouldn't be prudent. However, my thinking is if it is going to improve then its better to get there sooner versus later. One point I want to make is I am not saying that is sounds bad now. I think it sounds great, but if it gets even better over time then that would be nice.

lightman1

New (I assume). Just play it and trust your ears. That will be the deciding factor. I can tell you what you should hear all day long. But who am I to say.;)
Jester

VR3

50 hours after a few months? Wow

I have had my super towers just a few weeks and have EASILLY logged in over 150 hours +++

This I am sure.

You guys should really listen to music more!

BlueFox

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »

50 hours after a few months? Wow

I have had my super towers just a few weeks and have EASILLY logged in over 150 hours +++

This I am sure.

You guys should really listen to music more!

I do. As I said in the beginning, I mostly listen to my music server. I turn it on when I get up in the morning, and turn it on when I get home from work at night. I only use the SACD/CD player to audition a CD, or hybrid SACD, to hear if it is good enough to go onto the server. Generally, I listen to a CD between 9-10PM each night. Sometimes on the weekend I might go thorough a few CDs that didn't make it onto the server.

Once you get your DAC, iPod, and Wadia then you will know what it is like to have thousands of songs playing in random shuffle, and your CD player will start gathering dust.

VR3

Eh - I dont know. I've had several* configurations of similar setups...

There is just something about taking the CD out of the sleeve, inserting it into the CD player, sitting back and actually ENJOYING the whole CD all the way through as the artist intended it. Hearing actual song transitions. Can't beat it.

I dont foresee myself having a setup like that that I would even consider using for critical listening. Now maybe a "house setup" ... I could see the uses!

F1nut

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »

There is just something about taking the CD out of the sleeve, inserting it into the CD player, sitting back and actually ENJOYING the whole CD all the way through as the artist intended it. Hearing actual song transitions. Can't beat it.

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner!!!


Ya know Sid, every time I give up hope for you, you turn around and prove me wrong. Carry on. :cool:

BlueFox

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »

There is just something about taking the CD out of the sleeve, inserting it into the CD player, sitting back and actually ENJOYING the whole CD all the way through as the artist intended it. Hearing actual song transitions. Can't beat it.

Yes, there is a tactile, and artistic, experience. Sort of reminds me of the logic vinyl enthusiasts’ use. Of course, random song shuffle is only one option. You can always play the entire CD start to finish on the server, or have random CD shuffle where the entire CD plays start to finish, then another CD is randomly selected for play. Or develop a playlist of CDs to be played in a particular order, or whatever you can dream of.

The point is listening to music in whatever manner works best for you.

VR3

F1nut wrote: »

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner!!!


Ya know Sid, every time I give up hope for you, you turn around and prove me wrong. Carry on. :cool:

We have very similar missions - I just like a different sound than you. You like that lush, relaxed, big expanded sound --- (From my experience with things you like at Polk Fest) - where as I like precision imaging, maybe not quite as big in size, with tactile response, large dynamics and the highest resolution I can get... but that doesnt mean I dont want to enjoy the music and get the best foot tapping rig I can!

seafire

In support of all the above something to add.Electronics components also need heat cycles.This relieves any stress from the manufacturing process.It simply means that amongst the hours of playing the unit should also be switched off and allowed to cool down to room temp at least once per day.Then switched on and played for some hours

BlueFox

I do not know if burn-in exists, or has occurred, but, for whatever reason, this SACD/CD player (Sony 5400ES) really sounds good now on both SACDs and CDs. I did about a week of constant burn-in, alternating between Pink Floyd and a stereo burn-in disk, before I got tired of it, and decided to just play the CD player, and let any burn-in occur naturally.

Anyway, I’ve decided to call in sick tomorrow (which means I will still work from home, but lose a PTO day), and listen to the CD player all night. Maybe it is the CDs, but everything is sounding so good now. I actually feel content now with this stereo, and am not thinking of upgrading any part. To go from a cobweb covered inactive stereo a year ago to this has been quite a joy. I’m glad to have rediscovered the pleasure of music.

hearingimpared

Glad you are enjoying the fruits of your labor.