Grimster's official Pioneer Elite SC-07 review...

Grimster74

Okay, so it’s early in the morning, the wife and kids are asleep with no one to bother me, and a cup of coffee in front of me so I figured I’d try and get this review written. By no way do I consider myself a professional reviewer but I have been around the block when it comes to owning different brands of mid-level gear. I've owned the likes of Sony, Sony ES, Pioneer, Denon, Outlaw separates and now Pioneer Elite. With my room being a dedicated H/T room I really don’t use it as a 2-channel room so my review will be biased towards the H/T side of things. More on what little 2-channel listening I have done will be towards the end of this review.

First off, lets start with a list of gear I used to write this review:

Pre/Pro: Pioneer Elite SC-07
Amplifier: Outlaw Audio 7700 (200x7)
Sub Management: SMS-1
Projector: Epson Home Cinema 1080 (soon to be JVC, thanks Sherardp)
Satellite: Directv H20 High-def receiver
Blu-Ray: Panasonic DMP-BD30
HD-DVD: Toshiba HD-XA2
Gaming: XBOX 360
Speakers: Polk Audio Rti Series (F=70’s, C=40, R=28’s, S=30’s)
Subwoofers: Dual SVS PB12-Plus/2’s (20Hz tuned)
Surge: Monster HTS-5100
Cabling: Signal Cable
Remote: Harmony ONE

All the above is connected as follows, H20 connected via HDMI to input HDMI-3, Panny connected via HDMI to input BD, XA2 is connected via HDMI to input HDMI-1 as well as having the 5.1 audio connected to the multi-channel in and the XBOX is connected via HDMI to input HDMI-2. Then from the out of the SC-07 running a single HDMI cable to the Epson. I’ll post more on the actual setup coming up in the review.

Design/Setup:

Okay, so here we go, unpacking this beast was a job in it’s own, I knew the unit was large in size but to be completely honest with you, had no idea the unit was going to weigh as much as it did, I figured with the new ICE amps the unit would be rather light, NOT! The Pioneer website says it weighs in at 40lbs. but I dare say it sure as hell seemed heavier. By no way am I going to go into the specs of this unit, with the ICE club growing as fast as it is, pretty sure many already know. The only design flaws I consider Pioneer to be at fault at and I’m sure they have their reason is a) not having a removable power cord like the earlier Elite models for those of us that like to upgrade power cords, b) not having the ability to overlay the volume settings onscreen via HDMI unless you have a compatible Pioneer display c) not being able to set different x-over settings for individual speakers for those of us that like to keep our fronts set to something below 80Hz. and c) not having an additional USB input on the back of the unit to keep an I-Pod cable hooked up. Other than those few little items, the rear of the unit is nicely laid out and pretty straightforward.

Setup was pretty easy considering as many times as I’ve switched out receivers. Once everything was hooked up I did however have problems getting the H20 to HDCP handshake correctly with the SC-07 which seems to have worked itself out but every now and then when switching from playing the Xbox to watching the satellite, I have to power the H20 off and back on again and it’s fine which as I’ve said, I clearly hold the H20 at fault. The other issue I have and still have not figured out, when the Denon was being used I had no problem passing 1080/24p, still can’t get the Panny to pass 1080/24p with the 07 in place. Not sure if it’s Panny’s crappy way of handshaking or what but as soon as Pioneer releases their new BD players, an Elite will be in its place.

Once everything was up and running I chose to run the auto-MCACC option from the main menu. In my opinion, the MCACC auto setup is by far way more user friendly then the Audyssey auto setup used in a lot of the new gear out there. With the Denon, every time I ran the auto setup nothing was ever the same, always something different every time I ran it. After running the MCACC it set all speakers to large with a setting of 80Hz. I then went it and manually changed the fronts to large, left the rest to small with the setting of 80Hz. and set the subwoofer to Plus. Once those settings were complete I then went into the advanced setup and re-ran the MCACC holding my speakers settings. All distances came out spot on and the final outcome was amazing.

Movie Performance:

When I had the Outlaw 990/7700 combo in place I had never been so excited. This was my first step into separates and never from day one had I regretted the purchase. Once all the new audio formats started showing their ugly faces as well as the use of HDMI being the preferred choice of connection it was time to move on. Yes, there were solutions but those solutions required many different HDMI switches as well as audio switches so that’s why I purchased a new receiver to use as a pre/pro. First choice was to go Pioneer but decided to go with the Denon 3808CI due to the network ability as well as being able to overlay all menus and volume settings via HDMI.

With the Outlaw combo, the movie experience in my H/T room was one of those in your face experiences. It just drew your attention to the front of the room as well as keeping your attention drawn to what was going on around you. With the Denon, the first thing that caught my attention after running Audyssey was the sound was to me, so much more laid back, warm if you will. I figured that with the Audyssey setup, it was compensating for some ambient noise or something that I just didn’t know about, definitely felt lacking, but in some way, still sounded good. Then came the Elite SC-07!

Once I got the auto setup complete it was time to fire up a movie, the opening scene of Casino Royale. Holy Hell, there is the sound I was missing. The 07 is right up there with the separates I was using. Every movie experience now is a new experience. I’ve caught myself going back and re-watching movies that I’ve purchased over the last year or so that I watched with the Denon in place and if I could see myself, I’m sure I’d have a huge smile on my face. The 07’s performance is noticeable better, it’s more dynamic, and more texturally focused than the Denon ever was. With the rear and side surrounds with the Denon in place, I often caught myself walking around to make sure they were actually working which I’m sure had something to due with the Audyssey, with the Elite, you know they work. Everything in the rear of the room transitions back and forth so nicely now. With the 07 in place, reaching those big cinematic reference levels seem easier in a weird sort of way beings I’m not even using the internal ICE amps. Just seems with the Denon, I would have to view a movie with the volume setting of –15.0 to –10.0 to really get that in home theater experience. Now with the Elite, roughly to get the same level of sound I’m now setting at –20.0, not that much of a difference but now I fell that if I really want to push the limits of my room I can roll up to –15.0 to –10.0 range and just let her eat.

Music Performance:

As I said earlier, don’t really get much time to spend in the H/T room to listen to music but what time I have spent I’ve been very pleased. So far, but by no way critical listening, I’ve listened to a couple of CD’s, a couple of DVD Audio CD’s, I’ve used my I-Pod and spent a little time with the internet radio. I’m pretty sure that the way to go is the Pure Direct route. Everything just sounds so much more natural when using Pure Direct. I’ll try to dedicate more time to listen to more music so I can do a follow up review here in a few days.

Internet Ability:

As with the Denon, I really love the fact that I can stream music via the internet. Yes, I know, just said I don’t do much music listening but the ability is there when I have the chance. The only one thing I question, and maybe Mantis can answer this is, will the SC-07 be able to do firmware updates via the LAN connection on the back of the unit. I know many people have said it will but from what I’ve read over at the AVS forum, seems to be a split 50/50 that it will or it won’t. People have typed the IP address and it shows it will but nothing has been confirmed. That was one on the reason I swayed away from the Elite before I purchased the Denon, having to send the unit to an authorized Elite dealer to have firmware updates done seemed ridiculous.

Conclusion:

If I had to rate this receiver on a scale of 1 through 10, I’d give it a strong 9. I know no receiver out there is perfect but the SC-07 in my opinion is pretty damn close. As far as sound quality and all the features of this unit, a strong 9.5. Once I get the whole 1080/24p issue resolved which I’m hoping will correct itself once I move to the Elite BD player and if once can confirm about the firmware updates via the Ethernet connection, looks like the Pioneer Elite SC-07 will be in my theater for quit a while.

Grimster74

Left blank for follow up review.

Sherardp

Very nice review Rob.

Toolfan66

I am horrible at reveiws.

Good read !!!!

cnh

Nice review....waiting on the 2 channel section?

I have a Denon as well that I like fine, recently added a power amp, even better. Personally I've messed with the Audyssey system a bit but I still prefer my 'ear' to the auto set up. Setting up by ear keeps the sound less, laid back IMO. I've also heard the Pioneer 05/07 in Magnolias with Def Techs Mythos towers. They're very 'clean' but I'm not sure that clarity is the best of all possible worlds. I like the amps fine, but I also like a bit 'warmer' and slightly less clean sound--that's just a purely subjective preference on my part, most people would be delighted with the sound that comes out of these. Heck, I'll probably end up upgrading to these just for the High end DACs? And energy savings.

cnh

cfrizz

Great writeup. That sure is one beast of a machine.

mantis

Vert nice write up, I enjoyed it. I'm glad your liking the Elite over the Denon. You noticed the same things about the Denon vs the Pioneer that I did. Denon is very laid back and not as dynamic as the Pioneer. It can make for slighty boring movies. If you never hear the pioneer, then the Denon is perfectly fine. But when you compare it to others, you find that something is missing. This is what the vsx94txh would have done for you back then. It's very like the SC-07 when it comes to Dynamics but the SC-07 sounds even better as a pre or a straight receiver.
I'd like to read your opinion of the internal ICE amps. I think you will be surprised how good they are. if you are every hurting for money and need to move the amp, you will find a new surprise. I hope one day you try the internal amps.

As far as the firmware upgrades over ethernet, I don't see why not. I have not heard of any yet but I will find out. I'd love that. I don't have any issues with the SC-07 that require a firmware upgrade but maybe enough people had the trouble you had with the HD DVD player and Pioneer releases one. I will ask for you.

Dan

digitalvideo

Grimster I think if you waited and got the new Oppo BDP-83 coming out I think it would offer improved audio and video play back over the Panasonic and Pioneer BD players and make your Pioneer reciever shine even more. Oppo's dvd players up convert dvd's better than any upconverter machine I ever seen, even better than the Bryston which costs $1000 more. It's a true universal player. The Beta testers' reviews I been reading about at Oppo's website is pretty impressive, many claiming the Oppo takes less than 3 to 4 seconds to start up a Bluray movie. I'm going to purchase the Oppo when it comes out to hook it up to my Pioneer SC-0. I own a Pioneer BDP-05fd and I hooked my friend's Oppo DV-983H to my reciever and it performed better for picture quality, and I am a true die hard Pioneer fan by the way.

http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83/

Sherardp

Im debating between the Oppo and 23FD also. Price wise should be relatively close, it's just a matter of which will perform best in my setup and paired with the JVC RS10 throw the best image one's eyes could imagine. And what is the SC-0 DV?

Pedler

digitalvideo wrote: »

Oppo's dvd players up convert dvd's better than any upconverter machine I ever seen, even better than the Bryston which costs $1000 more. http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83/

Im not sure I read you right, Bryston dosn't make a DVD player ?

digitalvideo

My bad, I meant CD player, Oppo's cd player is similar to the more expensive Bryston but many including myself think the Oppo is better plus it's around $1000 less. The Oppo BDP-83 can play Bluray, DVD, CD, SACD, Kodak Picture CD and so on. The only other true universal player I know of on the market that does that is made by Denon and it's ridiculously expensive.

digitalvideo

I own the Pioneer SC-05 and on the 05/07/09 recievers Pioneer decided not to process any HDMI signals with a "do no harm" philosophy with HDMI signals in all of its Elite AVRs, which bypasses any video processing on the HDMI inputs, instead these signals are passed through the unit untouched. The composite, S-video, and component inputs can be transcoded to HDMI and output at resolutions up to 1080p/60, which means you only have to run one cable from the AVR to the display. I heard some may not agree with this decision and I'm not sure why. Are there any advantages and disadvantages with Pioneer's philosphy on HDMI signals through it's recievers?

I've done some comparisons and experiments with my reciever hooking up different types of machines and players to it to see how it converts signals and deinterlaces component signals from machines like the XBOX, PS3, Pioneer BDP-05fd, and to see how the AVR deinterlaced 1080i signals to 1080p. However, I didn't need to go through the effort since all HD signals, whether component or HDMI, pass through the AVR with no processing. I also found other websites that tested and reviewed the SC05/07/09 recievers discovered this too when they attempted to test the Pioneer's ability to deinterlace 1080i component signals from a Panasonic BD30 and even a Toshiba HD-A35 HD DVD player. With the AVR's output resolution set to 1080p or Auto, the output signal was still 1080i. Component signals at 480i were deinterlaced and upconverted to 1080p without a hitch, but they said an AVR in this price class should be able to convert all analog sources to 1080p, not just standard definition.

If I'm watching any DVD's or Blurays do I need to manually set it to 1080p or 'Auto' in settings and will it convert it to 1080p? I don't know if I'm getting the 1080p signal all the time.

danz1906

Very good review

doggie750

HAPPY EASTER!!!!
Hello G,
Since your set up is identical to mine, I would like to ask you some specific questions if I may.
With the exempt of our beast SVS, was there any diff setting up your speaker manually vs relying all in full auto mcacc mode, capturing your speakers all in large?

I am still trying to figure out how 07 is upgrading all <1080p. EG: rca cable, s-video, component video?

HTS5100 concerns, where is the 07 connected and how do you have it set up? Switched or unswitched? Delay?

I got issue on my HDMI1 input from my Toshiba A2, it's not transferring. No signal but it flicked for a while before I tried fixing the problem.:(

PS3 into bd is awesome & no issues.

your Mercy is appreciated. I got boys coming over for the Easter and I hope I get this resolved with your help.

THANK YOU MUCH....:cool:

doggie750

btw....4got to ask how to mcacc zone2?

Pedler

digitalvideo wrote: »

My bad, I meant CD player, Oppo's cd player is similar to the more expensive Bryston but many including myself think the Oppo is better plus it's around $1000 less. The Oppo BDP-83 can play Bluray, DVD, CD, SACD, Kodak Picture CD and so on. The only other true universal player I know of on the market that does that is made by Denon and it's ridiculously expensive.

Wow, to compare it to the bryston for cd... That is interesting...I am going to have to look into this.

Pedler

Grimster/Mantis,

You should post this review in the Ice Club Thread also. It's very good.

digitalvideo

To specify what I asked above about: "on the 05/07/09 recievers Pioneer decided not to process any HDMI signals with a "do no harm" philosophy with HDMI signals in all of its Elite AVRs, which bypasses any video processing on the HDMI inputs, instead these signals are passed through the unit untouched."

The new Oppo BDP-83 coming out will have direct DSD over HDMI and DSD to analog without going through a PCM conversion. Is that the samething as what Pioneer uses in the 06/07/09 Elite recievers?

shahpan

where is a reasonable place to buy sc-05 or a sc07

anhchungdoan

digitalvideo wrote: »

My bad, I meant CD player, Oppo's cd player is similar to the more expensive Bryston but many including myself think the Oppo is better plus it's around $1000 less. The Oppo BDP-83 can play Bluray, DVD, CD, SACD, Kodak Picture CD and so on. The only other true universal player I know of on the market that does that is made by Denon and it's ridiculously expensive.

The original Oppo BDP 83 analog is not up to par. The $149.00 Pio BDP51fd with Wolfson Dacs is much better when using as a CDP as the Oppo that's why Oppo comes out with the new SE version with the improvement of the analog output.

I have not heard any reviewer who can claim the Oppo BDP 83 can come near the $149.00 BDP51fd for the analog audio. The Bryston stand alone CDP is in a different class and in a different caliber than the Oppo BDP83. Even the famous Rotel CDP 1062 cannot even come close, period.

mole'

i know old, but good review.

im loving my SC-07

Sherardp

Congrats I have one also

codyc1ark

Had to bump this old review, as it has me stoaked for my SC-25. It arrives Saturday, and to beat all, this is the ONLY Saturday I've had to work in four years, stupid hail.


Let's hope the ol' lady signs for it and doesn't turn it away!!!

Toolfan66

You will love it!!! My SC-07 is still running strong...

dotostyprowly

If money wasnt an object, I love the Pioneer Elites. One of my favorite plasmas out there. The 4340 is an excellent set as well. It probably does 85 or more of what the Pioneer is capable of.

Problem is, I never had a chance to play with the Pioneer to see if I could get a better picture out of it. And even if I had a chance, it probably would have taken me 5-6 hours to tweak it to the point I was happy. Ive seen the Elite in several stores, and its always seems to look great. Maybe its calibrated well right out of the box? I dont know.

Toolfan66

This thread is about a reciever (AVR) not a TV.

mantis

TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »

You will love it!!! My SC-07 is still running strong...

Ditto. When the SC-27 came out < I almost replaced it. Then when the SC-37 came out the temptation was even stronger. There is not enough of an upgrade to make the move for me anyway. I have no desire for 3D not to mention my SC-07 does everything I want it to do.

Sherardp

mantis wrote: »

Ditto. When the SC-27 came out < I almost replaced it. Then when the SC-37 came out the temptation was even stronger. There is not enough of an upgrade to make the move for me anyway. I have no desire for 3D not to mention my SC-07 does everything I want it to do.

+1 with you on this one. As I read more and more, I just decided I was well off with what I have.

Grimster74

You guys are too funny. Well, my SC-37 should be inn today so luckily I left a blank spot under my original post so I can atleast take pics to prove it.:biggrin: I'm sure there will not be that much of a difference between the two units that will require a review but I will clearly note the different options. BTW, this was purchased due to me loving my SC-07 so much that the 07 will be moved to the upstairs rig and the SC-37 will take over the downstairs rig. The receiver I have upstairs (Denon 3805) doesn't have HDMI and come to find out something had chewed through some of the speaker wires which is why I thought the unit crapped the bed but by the time I had figured this out, to late to cancel the order. Sooooo, it's due for a upgrade upstairs anyways.

codyc1ark

Yeah, the differences between the 05/07/25/27 didn't seem that great to me, but I was able to get the 25 for less then I'd seen some 05's go, so a no brainer IMO. I love hearing all the glowing reviews, I know I'm going to be set for awhile.

olilugo

I also agree that I don't find any reason to upgrade to the sc-37. even if I wanted 3d which I don't most blue-ray players that do 3d have 2 hdmi outs which I can just connect the 3d to the TV and the reglar hdmi to my receiver.

I do have to say, I am in the same camp as some of you. I am not into 3D. in my case that will not be a driver for me to upgrade my system.

If I was in the market for a new receiver, I think right now my top choice would be the pioneer SC-37. If I was looking at pre-amps then Marantz 7005 would be my choice.