Old Monster v. New Blue Jeans

steveinaz

jinjuku wrote: »

One properly made cable with quality copper, snug fitting interconnects, shielding will be indistinguishable from another cable.

...and this would be known as an opinion; specifically, your opinion. The words "will be" indicate that you have personally listened to every cable in existence that is properly made of quality copper and has snug fitting connectors; otherwise your statement is speculation. I suspect the latter.

While I agree that you should have a well built, to specification cable, and that it doesn't need to cost you a ton of money (or be slathered in rare African elephant ****, and then cryogenically treated) to get good sound, I (note I said "I") have heard different tonal character from different cables, YMMV dependant upon your system, your hearing, and your ability to know what to listen for. That's just my opinion.

jinjuku

steveinaz wrote: »

...and this would be known as an opinion; specifically, your opinion. The words "will be" indicate that you have personally listened to every cable in existence that is properly made of quality copper and has snug fitting connectors; otherwise your statement is speculation. I suspect the latter.

How close to Las Cruces, NM are you? I will be there for a network install. I wouldn't mind putting $500 up for blind A/B.

Get some 3 ft RCA interconnects and have at it...

steveinaz

Why would I do that? I mean seriously, will I get a gold star if I pass? Why would I test something I have already tested numerous times, in my own system (where it matters). I'm not looking for your approval or vindication, right?

You've got me confused with someone who is insecure about their decisions/purchases, or that depends upon others' opinions of me to establish my self-esteem. I'm good.

WilliamM2

steveinaz wrote: »

Why would I do that? I mean seriously, will I get a gold star if I pass?

Looks like you would get $500.

He should bet more, there's nothing to risk on a sure thing.

jinjuku

steveinaz wrote: »

Why would I do that? I mean seriously, will I get a gold star if I pass? Why would I test something I have already tested numerous times, in my own system (where it matters). I'm not looking for your approval or vindication, right?

You've got me confused with someone who is insecure about their decisions/purchases, or that depends upon others' opinions of me to establish my self-esteem. I'm good.

Ok, don't say I didn't offer... I asked, you answered. Just what I thought. Case closed.

steveinaz

Again, maybe you both are mistaking me for someone who needs acceptance?

I want both you to go to the mirror tonight, look at yourself, and repeat three times out loud:

"I love me, and I am OK"
"I love me, and I am OK"
"I love me, and I am OK"

'Cause I love you man, differences and ALL.

jinjuku

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Looks like you would get $500.

He should bet more, there's nothing to risk on a sure thing.

If it was a sure thing he would have been willing to let me know if he is in a reasonable vicinity of Lac Cruses, NM.

jinjuku

Again, what cable companies that you are fans of will ship me a pair for evaluation? If I can't tell the difference will let me send them back?

It's an honest question. We send out demo equipment with a CC for hold all the time. We believe in our product enough to know that it will sell 9 out of 10 times. So really there is no risk for us. Been doing it for 5+ years now.

I am not asking anything of any vendor confident in their product that they shouldn't be comfortable with. I would love to hear a pair of interconnects that really do bring my setup to the next level.

I mean I can hear the difference in speakers, I can even hear the difference in some amps. So I know that there is a difference that I can detect.

steveinaz

jinjuku wrote: »

Ok, don't say I didn't offer... I asked, you answered. Just what I thought. Case closed.

Oh crap, there goes my credibility. 35 years of hi-fi experiences, gone, over 1 chicken-out.


I'm about 4.5 hrs from Las Cruces; Sierra Vista, Arizona.

jinjuku

steveinaz wrote: »

Oh crap, there goes my credibility. 35 years of hi-fi experiences, gone, over 1 chicken-out.


I'm about 4.5 hrs from Las Cruces; Sierra Vista, Arizona.

Ouch 9 hrs round trip... Was hoping something along the lines of 3-4 round trip.

So, any vendors where I can demo their wares?

steveinaz

I'll tell you what, tell me what all of your cables cost. I will buy them from you at full retail price that you paid--and shipping. Send them to me, and I'll ship you a box full of 69 cent IC's (they are good quality copper with snug connectors) and you agree to use them in your system from now on---using the honor system?

William, you too....

How about it? Come on, connect up that $1500 CDP with a 69 cent IC, wire is wire right?

ben62670

Jin buy a used set of Kimber PBJ's, and if you don't like them sell them for what you paid for them. Easy, cheap, and no loss. Simple enough? Also any shootouts where the cables haven't had time to burn in are useless. I am not saying you have to get used to a cable to hear the difference. You can let them run for 100hrs without even listening to them for them to burn in. With the gear you listed I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't notice a difference. Not bashing your stuff, but as you move up in the food chain the difference become more obvious. Like I said if you don't hear a difference great. Sweet William is very entertaining, but for him to tell someone what they don't hear, taste, or see is just plain silly.

steveinaz

Ah hell Ben, no you didn't play the "burn-in" card?

WilliamM2

steveinaz wrote: »

William, you too....

How about it? Come on, connect up that $1500 CDP with a 69 cent IC, wire is wire right?

Don't think that will work, everything is either HDMI or optical.

ben62670

steveinaz wrote: »

Ah hell Ben, no you didn't play the "burn-in" card?

Oh I have a long list of things to use. I have a cold, the power must be dirty today, the weather is throwing off the sound, barometric pressure is rising, is falling. Its like fishing excuses. My broke A$$ will use any excuse to justify rewiring my system instead of spending it on stuff that really matters:rolleyes: I appreciate these new newbs showing up about once every week to educate us on what we hear. I sure hope they can brain wash me into not trusting my ears. I need a new car LOL:D:D:D

jinjuku

I am moving in a few months so part of that will be taking advantage of upgrading my system. I will be keeping a separates approach. I really hate to mothball my Crown. I have had it for 19 years now.

What I really almost require is a an interconnect vendor that has enough faith in their product to let me demo it (I'll eat the shipping). If they don't have faith in their product, neither can I.

First rule of fight club? You don't talk about fight club.

First rule of audio: Audition, Audition, Audition.

For my budget I am looking at 5 channel Amps:

NAD (I can get at cost)
Outlaw Audio
Adcom
Emotiva
* I don't know if I can convince my self to hit fl(e)a-bay for an amp


For speakers (stuff I can eval locally):

PSB
Emotiva
KEF
Polk
AV123
Axiom
Aperion
Ascend Acoustics
*I believe the last 4 have an in home trial

For pre/pro:

NAD
Emotiva
Outlaw
Arcam

Seriously, if this ballpark of equipment isn't 'good enough' to sound even better with some higher cost interconnects...

jinjuku

ben62670 wrote: »

Jin buy a used set of Kimber PBJ's, and if you don't like them sell them for what you paid for them. Easy, cheap, and no loss. Simple enough? Also any shootouts where the cables haven't had time to burn in are useless. I am not saying you have to get used to a cable to hear the difference. You can let them run for 100hrs without even listening to them for them to burn in. With the gear you listed I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't notice a difference. Not bashing your stuff, but as you move up in the food chain the difference become more obvious. Like I said if you don't hear a difference great. Sweet William is very entertaining, but for him to tell someone what they don't hear, taste, or see is just plain silly.

I would rather get a pair of Kimber and BJC new and A/B them out of the box. No burn in. Just plug and go.

ben62670

I know there has been an EMO bashing, but I have heard the XPA-2, and their pre. It is better sounding than it should be for the price. The older Adcom's are very nice, but for the price of a new EMO I can't really see buying a 5 channel amp that old. I hate to sound like a fan boy being on the Polk forum, but the Polk's mid to upper lines are the best ban for the buck speakers you can get. As for IC's get some used ones to start. They pop up from guys like you who don't want to hear a difference, but are open minded to at least try. They usually get sold because A) they don't hear a difference, or they do hear a difference and want better;)
Ben

ben62670

jinjuku wrote: »

I would rather get a pair of Kimber and BJC new and A/B them out of the box. No burn in. Just plug and go.

The PBJ's need to burn for sure. All you have to do is hook them up to a CD player and let them run. You don't have to listen to them while they are running. Let them run for 3 days with the CDP on repeat, and I can almost guarantee you will here a difference from new to burned in. If you don't then buying higher priced IC's would be a waste for you. Sell them, or send them back;) Straight out he box PBJ's will be a little brittle, and lack lower end bass.

ben62670

Oops forgot. Some of the mid grade AQ IC's are very nice too. I would recommend them over the PBJ's.

steveinaz

Ascend acoustics speakers have always peaked my interest. They look like a heck of a value.

jinjuku

Audio Quest allows for returns but with 20% restocking... I will have to ask Kimber what his policy is (not listed).

Hawkeye

jinjuku wrote: »

Again, what cable companies that you are fans of will ship me a pair for evaluation? If I can't tell the difference will let me send them back?

It's an honest question. We send out demo equipment with a CC for hold all the time. We believe in our product enough to know that it will sell 9 out of 10 times. So really there is no risk for us. Been doing it for 5+ years now.

I am not asking anything of any vendor confident in their product that they shouldn't be comfortable with. I would love to hear a pair of interconnects that really do bring my setup to the next level.

I mean I can hear the difference in speakers, I can even hear the difference in some amps. So I know that there is a difference that I can detect.

Try here:http://www.thecableco.com/

Gordon

disneyjoe7

How about a set of used AudioQuest cables?

Diamondback's can be found under a hundred most times, try them if don't like or sound the same to you re-sell them.

Face

http://i.gizmodo.com/5205690/monster-cable-sues-monster-transmission-ensures-spot-on-dbag-company-list-of-09

kevhed72

Not to touch-off another cable war, but I just want to report what I have discovered by upgrading from an older pair (10+ yrs) of Monster Interlink 400s to a pair of Audioquest Sidewinders (which I picked up for 37.00). They are used for connecting my Yamaha CD player to a Pioneer Sc-05. I played several CDs with both sets of cables, and on a scale of 1 to 10, the improvement in audio quality was around 6 - 7 (yes, this number is subjective, but you get the point). The most noticeable improvements were in the overall detail and sharpness of the vocals, and the bass now has alot more punch to it. Prior to upgrading to the AQs, the bass on my speakers (RTIa9s) could be described as muffled and sometimes annoying. Overall, everything just sounds cleaner. The biggest positive is that the 37.00 investment makes me want to listen to all my old CDs again The biggest negative is now I want to jump up a couple more steps from the Sidewinders to something around King Cobras to see how much more I can get out of my system. Our subdivision yard sale is in a couple of weeks and all my old cables will be for sale to hopefully finance another pair of AQ cables. I will admit I was a bit skeptical before I upgraded, but the 37.00 was worth knowing...