7.1 Multi-Channels setup and Preout

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  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited February 2003
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    I think you're destined to go separates... if not now, later...

    :mad: Goodness grief, Tour2ma, you're not making my decision process any easier.... :)

    Does it sounds like I am trying to convince MYSELF receivers are ok, as long as I can't tell the difference??

    I have enough evidences in my closet, gears that I owned and should have been dealt with/trade/sold/given away long time ago. :D
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited February 2003
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    What gear??? :)
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited February 2003
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    Let's see, mainly old stuff...

    Hafler 110/220 pair, Yamaha AVC-70 pre, Adcom GF-535, Sony CDP-30, Yamaha T-33 Tuner, Rotel RE-860 Equalizer, Sony XA3ES CD, Alpine Cassette Deck AL-61, 2 sets of RM3000, Center CS-100...run of the mill stuff that I used to keep piling them up...audio junkies? that is an understatement...
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
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  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited February 2003
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    Dan,
    for the record, I am also considering Rotel 1098 (out in a couple of months, I think) with matching 1075 or B&K avs125.7 I thought ref 200.7 is a power overkill for my system. Having said that, this plan will not happen at least till 1098 showed up for audition.
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,056
    edited February 2003
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    Tour2ma,
    As for the 307/507, balanced outputs just aren't an issue for an integrated AVR, right?
    Yeah this is true from a certain point of view.

    polkatese,
    Yes your a sick dude man......but I love it.I'll say this about seperates,yes they are the very best way to go.If your pockets allow, by all means go ref50 and leave the av125.7 out and go ref200.7.This will yield max performance.If your going to go all out,go this way.
    Now going with the avr507,your getting st amps built in.Great unit and sound quality isn't far behind the seperates.You will be suprised how good the avr507 sounds compared seperates.It's scary.
    This choice your looking at here...I would go whatever your wallet will allow.You can't go wrong with the way you go.Remember seperates you will need interconnects,2 more powercords and more shelf space.If you go ref200.7,it's one heavy amp,you'll need a strong shelf......or put it in the bottom of your rack.
    Balanced interconnects are the very best connection between 2 components.It has max shielding.Unbalanced interconnects are good 2 as long as they have good shielding.Interference is what you want to avoid.
    B&K is hardware and software upgradable.The only thing that won't get upgraded as far as I now right now is the extra component input.The avr507 has 3 in and the avr307 has 2 in.No big deal.The upgrade will cost about 600.00.It will include all the new motorola chip sets,all new and current software.I'm excited for the upgrade.If you haven't seen my unit,here's a pic.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,056
    edited February 2003
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    ok here's another
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited February 2003
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    Dan, your audio rack seems to have wire management, right? clean setup, very nice! I am in the process of breaking in the 9. One thing about LSi, it is brutally honest speakers (I am really just stating the obvious here) consequently, it reveals both: the imperfections of the source, specifically on different recording labels, and the inability of pre/amp to provide the oomph (things that made you say, oh yeah, this is it....) and the 9 IS very clean and revealing.

    btw, you brought up a very good point about those two B&K ref, that combo will require decent cooling system. You saw my wall unit, I don't think it's adequate. Thanks for the input though, it's very helpful! Hey, isn't Tweeter has a loaner program?
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,056
    edited February 2003
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    polkatese,
    Bello has an ok at best wire management system.I painfully sat there and wired up my system for 3 hours.I like a very clean lookin rig.The rack is nice but I'm getting it out.
    Breaking in the 9's huh.cool,hey did you A B them compared to the 15's at home????I'd love to do that shoot out just for the hell of it.
    You gotta talk to your local Tweeter about that.We normally don't lend out gear as far as I know.But you can also ask about our return policy before you buy.I think you have 30 days to return for a full refund,but I'm not sure about that.
    Getting a new rack for your gear or going with the avr507......hmm.........sounds like the intergraded is lookin more and more appealing.At 185 watts by 7 into a 4 ohm load helps it along just fine.O you should see it in silver.....god damn it's bad looking.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited February 2003
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    Dan,
    I did the A/B comparison first thing when I got the 9. What I found out was, it sounds almost identical, except the low. In fact, with the REL in the mix, it is hard to differentiate the two, especially in close range. Soundstage is less, mid is slightly better on the 9, high is about the same. I would say this first impression is in line with my expectation, and I think Phuz had also mentioned this before. I put the 9 on a Sanus 28" stand, and they look alike, san the suib.
    Replacing the wall unit is not an option, since it was custom made, so, you're right, 507 is looking more appealing. Silver doesn't impress me, since it doesn't match with the rest.
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited February 2003
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    polkatese,

    Send me an e-mail: tour2ma@earthlink.net

    You just might be able to afford separates. :)
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited February 2003
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    email sent...
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
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  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited February 2003
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    Tour2ma,

    Do you follow this thread? interesting discussion on b&k:

    here

    cheers,
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited February 2003
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    No, I don't wander in any other forums, but I did read the thread you linked to. Pretty one sided wasn't it? :)

    EDIT BTW the one anti-AVR argument I do not subscribe to is the "too many functions in one box" one that somone drug out over there. Was true decades ago when Receivers were young, but I don't think it is any longer.
    For me there are plenty of other reasons to go separates.
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited March 2003
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    One thing about receivers nowadays, as you might have implied, it has gone mainstream to many people used to sworn by separates from the old days. Ironically, I bought into the ideas 17 years ago. Started off with Sansui Integrated AU-5900 (?) in the late '70, and "moved up" to the Haflers/Adcom. Early '90s I was impressed with the Denon and decided that the hobby needs to take a back seat to the kids. I came back around to the hobby about 6 months ago, as part of redesigning the family room (and gears), and was quite surprised that the debates on receivers vs. separates still very much alive. I like simplicity as long as I can convinced myself that I don't sacrifice sound quality (did I say this before?) my rack, with dvd-a/sacd interconnects, and the rest, is a war zone in terms of wires and lack of adequate air ventilation, so receivers is what I am leaning towards. But, separates definitely give me more insurance for future planned obsolescence...
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
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  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited March 2003
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    Originally posted by Tour2ma
    Mantis,
    Just setting up my ref 50 and I am astounded, and perhaps a bit intimidated, at the range of options and flexibility it has. Is its range of commands, e.g., notch filtering, comparable to other manf's or more than?

    Tour2ma,
    Aren't you going to share your new toys' picture with us? How 'bout the review? c'mon, want to see your new babies in action....
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,056
    edited March 2003
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    Yeah I like pics
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited March 2003
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    OK, OK... still under construction here, but here is a sneak peek at my Eq room (theater is next door)...

    Left is Mr. Sunfire and to his right is Ms. ref50, (AKA the Power and the Glory).

    Above "the Glory" is the good old Technics ST-G6T tuner (semi-retired at the moment by the 50's built-in tuner). This inexpensive little sucker out spec'd tuners 10 to 20 times its price. Amazing little number there...

    Below the Glory is Grandma AVP2000. She's slated to go back to B&K for a tune up (no upgrading though) shortly. Then she'll handle zones 3 and 4 after her return.

    Below Grandma is the Sony 5 disc combi I'm running for now. Likely upgrade here in April, per my "Best Value..." post a while back.

    The little black "bugs" you see above Glory and Grandma are old VideoLink HiddenLink flashers for the IR repeater. If you look close at the Sony, you'll see a later version “bug” stuck on the Sony's windshield.

    Behind the white doors are the two TT's - a Thorens TD-320 (w/ Shure V-15 Type V) and Dual 1229 (w/ the Type III hand-me-down). They share an AudioAlchemy "Vac-in-the-Box" phono pre-amp.

    Review wise - awesome, just awesome... The 50 is so quiet and well mannered and versatile, and the Sunfire is just a velvet beast at 420 wpc x 5 of clean power.... :D
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited March 2003
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    Oh and here is a shot of what is happening in the theater at the moment. It's been taken over (temporarily) by a pair of "amazing" monolith invaders that just arrived Wednesday...

    But don't be concerned. I don't need rescuing... I'm OK... I think I can handle these bad boys if I weaken them a bit with 16 hours or so a day of non-stop playing... :D
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited March 2003
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    Tour2ma,
    These pics look great! Great gears! did you run a dedicated outlet for your sunfire?
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited March 2003
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    Thanks.
    No dedicated electrical circuits... yet.
    There's a good chance the EQ room is going to be moving sometime in the next three months from the room to the left of the HT, to the room behind the monitor and mains.
    When the move, or the decision to leave all where it is, is made I'll make the runs. Most likely I’ll run a 30 for the amps and a 20 for the sources.
    Right now all are sharing a fairly quiet, otherwise lightly used, single 20-amp circuit.
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited March 2003
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    Tour2ma,
    email was sent...
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
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  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited March 2003
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    So, have you run your Brubeck's "Time Out" thru the Maggies yet? (I read somewhere that you are a Brubeck's fan also) I've got the 40th Anniversary on multi-channel (Telarc) recently, good recording, but not as great as TO...
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
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  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited March 2003
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    Dan,
    Originally posted by mantis
    Balanced interconnects are the very best connection between 2 components.It has max shielding.Unbalanced interconnects are good 2 as long as they have good shielding.Interference is what you want to avoid.

    pardon my ignorance, but if I have XLR connections between pre and pro amps, and I have all unbalanced rca from sources, what is the net benefit? does XLR has to be connected in tandem throughout the signal source (i.e. s-video connections in most receivers require a continuous path from source to tv, no mix match with composite)...thanks.
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,056
    edited March 2003
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    polkatese,
    pardon my ignorance, but if I have XLR connections between pre and pro amps, and I have all unbalanced rca from sources, what is the net benefit? does XLR has to be connected in tandem throughout the signal source (i.e. s-video connections in most receivers require a continuous path from source to tv, no mix match with composite)...thanks.
    The benefit is still there because you ran the very best connection between the amp and the Preamp.Ideal would be a full balanced system.Audio only,I never saw a balanced video cable,the closest thing to that would be a true RBG connection which is like componemt,but has a vertical and horizonal cable(yellow and white)5 total.
    There are cd players that can be hooked up balanced XLR.The ref50 supports a balanced cd in allday.
    As long as you have good quality rca shielded cables(which just about all of them use some typre of shielding one way or another),you'll be fine and reak the benefits of balanced.......allday.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited March 2003
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    Dan, did you get your REL yet?
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited March 2003
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    Originally posted by polkatese
    So, have you run your Brubeck's "Time Out" thru the Maggies yet? (I read somewhere that you are a Brubeck's fan also) I've got the 40th Anniversary on multi-channel (Telarc) recently, good recording, but not as great as TO...
    Yup I did... got near the same imaging I heard during the test listen of the 1.6's. The Alto Sax just bobbing and weaving away, and me grinning away. :D

    But Brubeck through the CA's pic'd above was disappointing. The piano attacks came through very harsh, borderline distorted at times. The horn was good, and the drums and bass exceeded the Maggies, but the piano... don't know there. :confused:

    Symphony through the CA's is phe-nom-min-nal. Stravinsky’s Firebird is one of my fav’s. Great dynamics and emotion. With one or two exception every instrument was exactly where it should be (only the tympani and a wood block sounded down front right, when they are normally right rear). And a little SPL check showed we hit 106 db in the finale (C, fast). The CA’s did not even break a sweat.

    mantis,
    Are those pix sufficient to tide you over for a bit?
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited March 2003
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    mantis,
    this you moving these little gems?
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3011010020&category=14973
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited March 2003
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    I guess I am a bit at a loss here, is that the same Mantis that you pointed out? This Mantis seem to be moving quite a bit of photography products.....Dan, you are not in camera business too, are you?

    Tour, that's gotta be fun listening to Desmond...great album!
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited March 2003
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    It is.. it is... I'm defintely a "Time Out" fan. Just great... Can't say I've ever listended to any other Brubeck stuff. Love following him up with Getz-Gilberto, or shuffling them in with a few other classic jazz ditties I have. It's an underdeveloped segment of my collection, but one I enjoy.

    Do yourself a favor and go to your local Maggie dealer just for giggles with Dave in tow (and other acoustical fav's as well). They could end up being expensive giggles, but that can be someday down the road. When you have to have that 2 ch rig.

    I have no idea if that's "our" mantis selling the Carver, in fact I'm pretty sure it's not as the locations don't match (PA vs. Austin, TX), but just caught my eye...
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • polkatese
    polkatese Posts: 6,767
    edited March 2003
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    I meant Paul Desmond on alto sax in Take Five...seems you are very satisfied with the maggie, I might audition it...One speaker that I was really impressed with was Sonus Faber Grand Piano. It's such a beaut..
    I am sorry, I have no opinion on the matter. I am sure you do. So, don't mind me, I just want to talk audio and pie.
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