Chrysler and Fiat agree to merge

ND13

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29958784/?GT1=43001

Just glad it wasn't with the Frenchies.

Jstas

I'm kinda glad this happened.

FIAT has some nice rides and they can easily meet or exceed U.S. crash and emissions standards. They have no dealer network and zero infrastructure here. That has been their deterrent to re-entering the U.S. Market. Merging with Chrysler gives them an extensive dealer network here in North America and allows us to have an avenue to get some real nice FIAT based rides like a Fiat MiTo and it's Abarth 500 cousin, or an Alfa Romeo Brea and whatever they decide to do with Lancia and reviving the marque. Yes, Fiat already has an established foothold with Ferrari and Maserati but Ferrari dealers are not allowed to sell other lines of Fiat products except Maserati because Ferrari feels it cheapens the brand.

It'll be interesting to see how that pans out.

obieone

I bet the negotiating went well.

zingo

I would like to see FIATs here in the US as they offer many good economy cars and decent styling.

heiney9

Now what a Chrysler badged Ferrari. .

I admit this could be a good thing. Having been around a couple Fiats in my early days 124 Coupe and 124 Spider and X 1/9 the Italians have a flair no other can offer.

I'd like to see Fiat make a come back in the US market and merging with Chrysler might make that happen. Still highly skeptical........but there are worse alternatives.

H9

ND13

Remember the Maserati "LeBaron" TC?:D

zingo

Who could forget it!

ND13

Don't get me wrong, I actually owned a '95 Lebaron Convertible for about 6months(just a few years ago) and it was a decent car. Other than a few styling cues, the turbo, and being assembled in Italy, it was the same car for a shitload more duckets.

shack

I want to see them put a HEMI in THIS:

ND13

I could see these in my driveway. http://www.fiat.com/cgi-bin/pbrand.dll/FIAT_COM/showroom/selectModel.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0021194791.1238438442@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccgadeglgkifmkcefecejgdfkhdfjj.0&categoryOID=-1073761346

Hawkeye

So this is a good deal for who? Fiat puts up no money for Chrysler. Fiat gets the dealer network for free. Fiat and Chrysler get 6 billion dollars from you and me the taxpayer. And this is good how?

Gordon

mhardy6647

when FIAT disgorges them in a couple of years, Tata will doubtless be waiting in the wings.

ohskigod

I gotta mention how i think Robert Eaton should Rot for pretty much destroying chrysler.....well, Eaton and Daimler Benz :mad:

ViperZ

Daimler gave up on Chrysler... now Fiat... I guess, someone did not see the 'lessons learned' page.

ND13

Daimler **** Chrysler hard. They milked the profits from Dodge and Jeep(when the Ram was the 3rd best selling vehicle and the Grand Cherokee was in the top ten...not to mention the minivans) and when they got what they wanted, they sold them to a liquidator, who has NO CLUE how to run an auto company and really never cared to. Cerebus probably thought they'd be rid of Chrysler a long time ago. Mercedes was the lowest rated auto manufacturer(reliability wise) on the entire planet at the time of the merger..per Consumer Reports. I know these things from close to 20 years in the business with about half with Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep dealers and I live in a Chrysler town...well it was until about 4 years ago.

John30_30

mhardy6647 wrote: »

when FIAT disgorges them in a couple of years, Tata will doubtless be waiting in the wings.

Don't knock the Bodacious Tata's if you haven't ridden them.

ohskigod

ViperZ wrote: »

Daimler gave up on Chrysler...

daimler didnt "give up" on Chrysler. they sucked it dry like a succulbus and dumped off the carcass when they were done. Pre merger, Chrysler was in fantastic shape. i should know, I worked for them.
vibrant minds coming up with cool stuff. PT Cruiser, Viper, Cab Forward anyone? in 1994-97 they had cars that look like cars of today. automakers still shamelessly crib that design to this day.

During the merger, they were raping Chrysler for all there talent and tranfering them to the Daimler side. I could have moved to Germany if i wanted. i didnt want to no need for the land of bad Techno and scheister videos thank you very much )


Whoever didnt go to Daimler punched out (cough cough....me cough cough), there were some very important big wigs that punched out whose name escapr my memory at the moment.

Read Lee Iacoca's most recent book. he has a chapter describing the whole thing that is so accurate, i bought the book just to read that chapter (the rest was good too.)

eh, i'm done with my rant

ND13

Thanks Lou. I wish this administration would have taken Iaccoca up on his offer to help the US auto makers, but...........:rolleyes::(

The merger was also the subject of a book "Taken for a Ride: How Daimler-Benz Drove Off With Chrysler", (2000) by Bill Vlasic and Bradley A. Stertz.

danger boy

hey maybe it's time to bring back the YUGO!!!!

shack

There is enough blame to go around. At least GM and Ford had some foresight as to what was happening with the world auto industry. Whether it was Eaton or DB...someone at Chrysler decided that it was the right thing to continue to build and promote BIG trucks, BIG suvs and vehicle lines dominated by BIG gas guzzling V-8s (Hemi) when the writing was on the wall that the market was going in the other direction. Ford has several world based small cars and hybrid technology, GM has small cars, hybrids and electric cars in the pipeline....Chrysler had RAMs, Jeep Commanders and Grand Cherokees and Hemis. The only thing that came close to fuel efficient vehicles were the PT Cruisers and Calibers (dated at best). Poor planning and no vision. They need a white knight like a Fiat or they are gone. Maybe they should be.

danger boy

While in Spain several years ago. most people drove Fiat's.

tonyb

danger boy wrote: »

While in Spain several years ago. most people drove Fiat's.

Italy too,they are cheap,good on gas,but would never pass the mustard here with all the regulations we have.Probably why Fiat left.Regardless,huge labor contracts no doubt left little room for US automakers to compete.

Face

Fix It Again Tony.

sucks2beme

The automakers right now ARE worth nothing. They are a gaping money hole.
IF somebody is willing to take on the debt to turn them around, then
it's about as good as it gets. Uncle sam can't fix a car company. It's
up to someone in the business to fix them.

Jstas

Hawkeye wrote: »

So this is a good deal for who? Fiat puts up no money for Chrysler. Fiat gets the dealer network for free. Fiat and Chrysler get 6 billion dollars from you and me the taxpayer. And this is good how?

Gordon

Well, first off, there is no agreement...yet. Just a plan.

Secondly, FIAT is one of the few automakers out there NOT in dire straits. Mostly because they are so extremely diversified in the products they build that they can mooch capital from other parts of the S.p.A. overall to stay afloat.

Yeah, Chrysler gets the 6 billion if the Fiat plan goes through. Why does that matter? 'Cause right now, Chrysler can't do squat with 6 billion. They will just burn through it in a month and a half and be done by June anyway.

If FIAT jumps in the mix, FIAT brings a massive world-wide network of dealers and suppliers which Chrysler literally no longer has. Chrysler has North America and an "Oh yeah, them guys too" presence in the rest of the world. Wasn't so 10 years ago but Daimler took care of that. Having that world-wide presence and an influx of capital puts Chrysler in a much better position to leverage not only resources but technology between the two. As what was already said, at one point, Chrysler was quite innovative and they still have a great deal of technology and good solid platforms to work with.

FIAT has been trying to get back in this market since the mid 90's when they had completed the full take over of the Ferrari competition division after owning the sports car side of things since like 1968. They bailed on the U.S. market back in 1984. They have been out a long time and since what they do is build small, fuel-efficient cars, this is their time here. They tried to use Ferrari dealers but since Ferrari is run autonomously, Ferrari told them to piss-off and get their own dealers. No foothold for FIAT means no profits. No profits, it's not worth coming here.

FIAT merging with Chrysler gives Chrysler the 6 billion to restructure to not only fix itself but get it set to put Fiats in Chrysler showrooms and build joint-platforms and get Chrysler it's electric and hybrid car programs that have yet to materialize beyond stickers on an Aspen and a big fat promise. On top of that, Chrysler's own stock got delisted back in 2007 and because of that, Cerebus and Daimler cannot raise capital directly to Chrysler. So having the massive financial backing from FIAT of even only 35% of Chrysler's total value stands to inject capital in places very much needed.

If you actually read the plan also, FIAT wants to build cars here but along with zero dealer networks in the North American market, they have no production facilities. FIAT can put people back to work building FIATs AND Chryslers and is already building cars that people WANT to buy.

FIAT is a much better route than the greedy Germans at Diamler ever could have hoped for and they are more financially stable than Nissan or Renault could ever have hoped to be.

Will it work out? History says wishful thinking but truthfully only time will tell. Things are alot more complicated than your over-simplification makes it out to be.

mhardy6647

John30_30 wrote: »

Don't knock the Bodacious Tata's if you haven't ridden them.

No Tata knockers here :-)

jflail2

Face wrote: »

Fix It Again Tony.

Yup. My old man had a Fiat in England in the late 70's, and the mantra was:

FIAT= fix it again Today; fix it again tomorrow.

Literally just about every weekend dad and our neighbor would be under the hood of that POS. I think he spent more time under the hood than behind the wheel...

I hope quality has seen an uptick since then.

F1nut

Face wrote: »

Fix It Again Tony.

That's what I recall Fiat being known for. One of my brothers had a 128 (I think that's right) back when. A true POS.

BottomFeeder

Wow. From what I remember, Fiat left the US because their cars, while looking cool & driving well, just flat out sucked in terms of frequency of repair. The term, "Fix It Again, Tony" was supposedly deserved.

Wonder if their reputation has changed. Or maybe they just hope that we've forgotten?

& Wasn't Fiat involved in some HUMUNGOUS scam or crime some years back?

ND13

Thank you John.

I just don't have the patience for anyone that wants to see an employer of 10's if not 100's of thousands(when you include dealers) of people go under. I live where the layoffs and plant closures have, most likely, irreversibly damaged people's lives. And for our Canadian brotheres, if Chrysler goes belly up, it'll affect your nation dramatically, too. I really could care less what happens south of the border at this time. Every model assembled down there is being assembled here, too or can be if the plant that was is shut down.

Jstas

BottomFeeder wrote: »

Wow. From what I remember, Fiat left the US because their cars, while looking cool & driving well, just flat out sucked in terms of frequency of repair. The term, "Fix It Again, Tony" was supposedly deserved.

Wonder if their reputation has changed. Or maybe they just hope that we've forgotten?

& Wasn't Fiat involved in some HUMUNGOUS scam or crime some years back?

FIAT pulled out of the U.S. Market because they were selling small, fuel-efficient cars and when the oil embargoes lifted and the economy recovered, people were buying big trucks, vans and cars again. FIAT was out and with the spotty reliability, Chrysler handily kicked their butts with the K-cars and Caravans as well as stiffening competition from Japanese makers. FIAT was losing money hand over fist here because of economic reasons, not perceived reliability issues. So, they bailed on the automotive side. But they still sold everything from pharmaceuticals to farm tractors here in the U.S.


The FIAT scandal was back in 1992 and it was in the upper echelons of the parent company Fiat Group where two top executives were arrested for political corruption. Some of the activities they were involved in traced back to ties with the Libyan government who, back in 1986, had owned 15% of Fiat Group. Reagan pressured them to find a buyout for the Libyan shares. The Pentagon canceled a very large contract with the Fiat Group to build earth movers for the government/military. That's long since overwith though.


As far as current quality control issues, reviews in Europe, FIAT's largest market, say that the cars are well made just a bit on the boring side. In other words, they look great but performance doesn't meet looks.