Dr. Spec's Official 7.1 Upgrade Thread

Dr. Spec
Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
edited February 2003 in Speakers
Well, the 7.1 upgrade project is done. The 1000's came Friday afternoon.

They were damaged in transit, but still in working condition. A claim has been started with UPS. The right speaker has a crushing injury on one edge with wood damage and splintering, and a corresponding dent in the grill. The left speaker has a ripped grill cloth, a cracked grill frame, and a scuffed anti-diffraction bezel. Whaddya gonna do? Take the insurance money and run, I guess.

I'd like to thank Walter (wallstreet) for a great transaction, and Russ for helping break the ice with a neighboring Club Polk member.

On to the upgrade! My A/V receiver only has a rear surround pre-out. So I used my Harman Kardon h/k870 100wpc amp as the rear surround amp.

I had a spare Monster sub cable, so I bought a Monster Y Splitter (one female, two male) to connect the split pre-out signal to the L/R inputs of the h/k 870. I connected the h/k 870 to dual CS245i lying flat on a bookshelf behind the couch.

I experienced no voltage or impedance mismatch between the pre-out and the h/k 870 - works fine.

I got creative with wiring the f/x1000's and it's pretty unobtrusive. I used 12 gauge since one run was over 50 feet. They are mounted directly to each side of the listening area about 6.5 feet high (per Polk's recommendations) and are running in dipole mode.

The rear 245i's are about 7 feet apart, the side 1000's are about 12 feet apart, and the RT800i's are about 10 feet apart with the 400i splitting the middle up front. All speaks use the tri-lam tweeter and are timbre matched.

All speakers were calibrated to the same volume using a B&K Model 2205 SPL meter on DVD test tones.

For 5.1 signals, I'm running the rear surrounds in "surround mix" mode, which steals a little of the signal from the side surround channels and sends it to the rears with a time delay.

For true 6.1 signals, the AVR automatically terminates the "surround mix" function and processes the rear channel as a discrete signal.

Well how does it sound? In a word awesome - but what else did you expect? The soundstage in di-pole mode is amazingly 3D on panning effects and certain sounds seem to "float" between the front and rear soundstage and cannot be easily localized. The 1000's are big, powerful, room filling and perfectly compliment the RT800i, and CS400i.

U-571 "200 meters" was absolutely amazing - the creaks and groans literally moved through the entire room - including behind the couch, with no loss or drop out in the soundstage. I was very impressed with the "surround mix" function here, as U-571 is not true 6.1.

On 6.1 material, the rear sound stage is stable and large and the discrete sound effects are often startling. So far I've gone through LOTR-FOTR and Terminator 2 in DD-EX and it's been revelatory. Lot's of fun here.

Well that's about it - a great upgrade and a lot of fun. Pics to follow - deliberately low res for quick loading.

Regards,

Doc
"What we do in life echoes in eternity"

Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
Director - Technology and Customer Service
SVS
Post edited by Dr. Spec on
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited February 2003
    Rear sound stage - dual CS245i.
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited February 2003
    Left surround - f/x 1000.
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited February 2003
    Right surround - f/x 1000.
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited February 2003
    Front rig - completed.
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited February 2003
    Front sound stage.
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • faster100
    faster100 Posts: 6,124
    edited February 2003
    UPS didn't issue a pick up tag to get the speakers and inspect them before the started a claim? and usually they ship the damaged items back to the shipped, if they haven't got them yet i am sure they will want to, they say to check the packageing and the item damage, well good luck to ya, but this happened with fed ex when i sold my sub, they dropped it and effed it all up, and sent it back to me, and paid out the claim.....
    MY HT RIG:
    Sherwood p-965
    Sherwood sd871 dvd
    Rotel 1075 amp x5
    LSI15 mains
    LsiC center
    LSIfx surround backs
    Lsi7 side surrounds
    SVS pb12/plus2

    2 Channel Rig:

    nad 1020 Pre-amp
    Rotel 1080 stereo amp
    Polk sda 2B
    kenwood grunt Tuner
    realistic lab 450 TT
    Signal cable IC
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  • nellis8166
    nellis8166 Posts: 292
    edited February 2003
    Looks Good Doc!!! 360 surround is quite a trip. I love it.

    Regards,
    Nat
    RTi10
    CSi5
    RTi28
    SVS PB12-ISD2

    Denon 2106(pre/pro)
    Adcom 5503(200x3)

    Audioquest Diamondback ICS
    Kimber Kable 8tc biwire(mains and center)

    "Don't let your silly dreams fall in between the crack of the bed and the wall."
    -J. James
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited February 2003
    Originally posted by faster100
    UPS didn't issue a pick up tag to get the speakers and inspect them before the started a claim? and usually they ship the damaged items back to the shipped, if they haven't got them yet i am sure they will want to, they say to check the packageing and the item damage, well good luck to ya, but this happened with fed ex when i sold my sub, they dropped it and effed it all up, and sent it back to me, and paid out the claim.....

    Well I emailed them to report the damage after the UPS guy was long gone. I didn't open them until I got home. UPS wants to inspect the package and the damage. I've got everything here. I have someone home all the time so it won't be a problem.

    Since the speaks are OOP, the cannot be replaced, only repaired. They are already mounted and I won't give them up or ship them back. I'll take the check for damage - that's it.
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • mrpergo
    mrpergo Posts: 35
    edited February 2003
    Awful lot of remotes there Doc :lol:
    Set up looks great.
    Mains:RT800i
    Center:CS400i
    Sides:fx/300i
    Rears:RT35i
    Subwoofer:SVS 20-39 pci
    Receiver: Denon 3802
    DVD: Denon 3800
    HDTV:Hitachi 57swx20b
    Remote:MX-500
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  • HBombToo
    HBombToo Posts: 5,256
    edited February 2003
    Nice Job!

    Having nearly the same settup as you I'll bet it sounds awsome.

    Now all you need is that Coyote mounted between the 2 Deer.

    HBomb
    ***WAREMTAE***
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  • scottvamp
    scottvamp Posts: 3,277
    edited February 2003
    Having nearly the same settup as you I'll bet it sounds awsome.
    Really??????? Not sure about that H-bomb.:rolleyes:
    Anyway, Doc glad to see you finished your 7.1 project - it looks really good. Great job!!!;)
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  • kberg
    kberg Posts: 974
    edited February 2003
    Originally posted by mrpergo
    Awful lot of remotes there Doc :lol:
    Set up looks great.

    I noticed this too, but I bet Doc is "specking" out a Philips Pronto remote right now. :)

    Awesome setup, Doc. When do the invitations go out? :)
    Mains: polkaudio RTi70's (bi-wired)
    Center: polkaudio CSi40 (bi-wired)
    Surrounds: polkaudio FXi30's
    Rear Center: polkaudio CSi30
    Sub: SVS 20-39 PC+
    Receiver: ONKYO TX-SR600
    Display: JVC HD-56G786
    DVD Player: SONY DVP-CX985V
    DVD Player: OPPO DV-981HD 1080p High Definition Up-Converting Universal DVD Player with HDMI
    Remote: Logitech Harmony H688
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  • goingganzo
    goingganzo Posts: 2,793
    edited February 2003
    i have a queston about the insurance how much money will you get the full amount or just the cost of replaceing/repareing them.

    is the dammage realey noticable? i would fix what you can and take the rest of the money and run. if you can live with it. or take the money and get a nother set of 1000. i allways get at least 20%more insurance than what i payed for things when i ship them.
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  • HBombToo
    HBombToo Posts: 5,256
    edited February 2003
    Originally posted by scottvamp

    Really??????? Not sure about that H-bomb.:rolleyes:

    what are you saying here?

    HBomb
    ***WAREMTAE***
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  • wallstreet
    wallstreet Posts: 1,405
    edited February 2003
    Looks like a great setup. You gotta love those 1000's! I'm off to watch ****!
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited February 2003
    Thanks for the props guys - it was a fun project.

    Gonzo - as far as the insurance goes, I'll take whatever we (wallstreet and me) can get out of UPS. We insured them for $600, and I doubt we'll get it all, but we'll try.

    I would classify the damage as minor structural (grilles and one wooden edge). All the important stuff works.

    Here's a shot of the damaged edge - which will be the most expensive to fix. The grilles are probably $30 each at the most.

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • scottvamp
    scottvamp Posts: 3,277
    edited February 2003
    Originally posted by HBombToo

    what are you saying here?
    HBomb
    Hbomb - I don't recall you having anything remotely close to Dr. Spec.
    Thought you had mostly SDA's. Me and Doc are VERY close to the same. I have a bit more speaker/power on the front stage. I'd say we are close in the bass department.
    What is your current 6/7.1 setup? - minus your broken sub. ;)
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  • Devildog
    Devildog Posts: 68
    edited February 2003
    Looks like a really warm and comfortable theatre room Doc. With your ability to "fine tune" those speakers, I bet it sounds fabulous. Good luck with UPS. Rick
    The Revolution will not be televised.
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  • HBombToo
    HBombToo Posts: 5,256
    edited February 2003
    I'm running 800i's fronts in parallel with RTA8T's and a 400i center biamped with RT55 surrounds. I have an Outlaw 770 which has 7 X 200 Watts per channel @ 8 Ohms and 350 Watts at 4 Ohms.

    I have used my RTA8t's in a 7.1 config but since the Living room and Dining room are attached I did not think it prudent to leave my beloved 8T's to be knocked over by a 2 year old. I never thought she would take such an interest in my sub but we all live and learn. That is when I started experimenting with the 8T's in parallel with the 800's and it has really worked out for the best.

    I have followed many of you and Docs posts because of the similarity in equipment have payed very close attention. Nice settup you have BTW.

    HBomb
    ***WAREMTAE***
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  • scottvamp
    scottvamp Posts: 3,277
    edited February 2003
    HBomb - thanks man. I must have lost track of your HT rig over time. Very nice. That Outlaw sounds like a beast. Sweet!!:)
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  • etrigan
    etrigan Posts: 160
    edited February 2003
    Looks great Ed !
    Man I envy that SVS :supermad: ;) - (and your BM knowledge)
    From one N.Y'r - (and former hunter) to another - that's a "Real upstate Hunter's home" (love the Winchester/Dogs signage)
    Be proud of those trophy's-and take care of those Dogs of yours-
    It's been a harsh winter so far-and (If you believe the news,up to 18 " expected tomm.-her on LI)--God knows what you "Upstate folks will get
    :eek:

    CHEERS ! jefff
    Art as expression-Not as market campaigns-Will still capture our imaginations.
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  • dave shepard
    dave shepard Posts: 1,334
    edited February 2003
    That set-up look's great and I'm sure sounds even better. I see polk still has them as discontinued items for sell. Is that where you found them? I'm sure ups will make things right. I was wondering I haven't seen any formats that have any better then 5.1 and have seen recievers that have 7&8.1 how would they work if the format dosen't play at that leavel. Does the reciever make up the effect differance? I had one salesman show me a Yamaha that had 8.1 at just over a $1000 the wife wasn't ready to let me spend it. I wasn't sure about Yamaha either.

    Thanks
    Dave
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  • sterling bug
    sterling bug Posts: 228
    edited February 2003
    Great looking system Doc.
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited February 2003
    Originally posted by dave shepard
    I was wondering I haven't seen any formats that have any better then 5.1

    Hi Dave:

    DD-EX and DTS-ES designations both carry a discrete rear channel encoded into the disc - i.e. "6.1". If your processor can decode it, your system will play it (providing you have all the equipment).

    Two rear surround speakers playing a 6.1 signal is commonly termed "7.1" but in reality it is not seven discrete channels. In fact, my system can never be anything more than 6.1 because I only have one rear surround pre-out.

    When formats catch up with hardware, the true 7.1 and 8.1 receivers and pre-pros will be able to play 7 or 8 discrete channels.

    With a true 5.1 signal, a 6.1 / 7.1 processor will "up-mix" the signal and send non-discrete sounds to the speakers for which no true discrete channel exists. This feature is called "rear surround mix" on my A/V receiver.
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • wallstreet
    wallstreet Posts: 1,405
    edited February 2003
    So how did the wife like the new "artwork" hanging on the ceilings?
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited February 2003
    Nothing like a few dead animal heads to break up standing waves, eh Doc? The 1000's are a nice addition to your trophy collection.

    Sorry to read about the damage to those new black beauties, but at least it's cosmetic. Nice installation complete with the painted speaker wire runs. Were you able to squeeze in the bananas, or did you have to go another route?

    Bet this is not going to be one of your most productive Monday's. Going to be too much grinning around the water cooler today.

    Congrats...
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • izafar
    izafar Posts: 819
    edited February 2003
    A little corection here, DD EX doesnt have descrete rear chanel and uses matrix decoding to extract the info from SR and SL chanels. On the other hand DTS ES comes in both discrete and matrixed falavors.

    My AVR is also 7.1 capable and I am also planning to go this route, right now saving for this, hopefully will get a pair of POLK FX series speakers for side surround and will move the RT25is to the rear.

    __________________

    izafar:

    RTi70 Mains
    RT25i surrounds
    CSi30 Center
    PSW250 Sub
    Denon AVR 2802
    Carver AV 405 Amp
    Denon DCM 280 CDP
    Sony 32" Wega
    Sony NS415 DVDP
    -izafar

    Goldenear Technology Triton 1 - Benchmark AHB2 - Benchmark LA4 - Auralic Vega - Auralic Aries Mini - Marantz TT-15S1 - Clearaudio Nano
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited February 2003
    wallstreet - she is 100% on board with HT and loves the new speaks and helped me mount them.

    tour2 - I only had to paint that short run of wire; the right side is completely hidden inside of a cold air return duct and looks custom. I was unable to use the banana plugs, and reserve that for a future project. For now straight connects to get the system running. I tried RS spade connectors and they were too small in diamters to fit over the binding posts. I'll look at other spade connectors this week.

    etrigan/tour - we missed that storm completely - ha ha. Yes, I cheirsh all my mounts, and there's nothing like a big racked buck to break up standing waves - another unforseen benefit of the "kill it and grill it" lifestyle.

    Izafar - you are 100% correct and I should have stated it that way - thank you. That is why they refer to DD EX as 5.1 - I don't think there is anything present that you don't hear from the side surrounds in 5.1 mode. Some of it just gets stripped and sent to the rear channel in EX mode, correct?

    In comparison, a true DTS 6.1 matrix would have discrete rear surround effects that would not be heard at all through the side surrounds, correct?

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
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  • izafar
    izafar Posts: 819
    edited February 2003
    Izafar - you are 100% correct and I should have stated it that way - thank you. That is why they refer to DD EX as 5.1 - I don't think there is anything present that you don't hear from the side surrounds in 5.1 mode. Some of it just gets stripped and sent to the rear channel in EX mode, correct?

    yes, and if one has 6.1/7.1 setup then the AVR should always be set to EX mode. The current algo for matrix decoding are prety cool and can extarct a good sounding rear chanel from non EX movies.

    In comparison, a true DTS 6.1 matrix would have discrete rear surround effects that would not be heard at all through the side surrounds, correct?

    yes, Gladiator is one exapmle, if you play it with DTS ES option and dont have 6.1/7.1 setup you will loose rear chanel.
    -izafar

    Goldenear Technology Triton 1 - Benchmark AHB2 - Benchmark LA4 - Auralic Vega - Auralic Aries Mini - Marantz TT-15S1 - Clearaudio Nano
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  • scottvamp
    scottvamp Posts: 3,277
    edited February 2003
    isafar - very well said on the 6/7 ch. Nice to have someone else explain - good job.;)
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