New AVR or Preamp & Amp for music ???

SuperG

I currently have a Denon AVR-1706 with no preouts. It only pushes out 75 w per channel. I find it good enough for my HT needs but it lacks that extra punch for music.

I have the Rti 8 for mains, Csi 3 center, RM15 for surrounds and a PSW505 sub.

Should I buy a new AVR (Onkyo 805 for example) and add an amp later?...Or should I go with a preamp and amp and hook it up directly to my CD player? All I'm lookin for is better sound for music.

As far as budget...the cheaper it is, the easier it is to sell the idea to the wifee.

Early B.

If you're looking for better sound for music, you can forget about using an AVR.

cfrizz

What Early said. Get a pre & amp

cnh

What the guys said above!

Register on Audiogon.com and try to find a good used pre-amp and amp. I've been going that route myself.

cnh

polkie4life

If you've got a power amp, does a pre-amp add more to the sound or does an avr? It doesn't matter if its good or bad, i'm just curious to know which would alter the sound more....

pearsall001

I would buy a new AVR & run your speakers to see how you like it. If you decide you need more power then add an external amp. I've been thru a few AVR/dedicated two channel pre combos & to tell the truth I noticed no diference at all in 2 channel listening. I'm back to using my AVR for both HT & 2 channel & find no sonic disadvantage at all.

cfrizz

I went from a pre to a receiver and now I'm back to a pre. The pre for ME offers a bit more clarity over a receiver. YMMV.

polkie4life

I have in the past considered ditching HT and going 2ch. I don't really want to add/takeaway anything from my 2ch, sound hence my Q. Status quo it is.

Toolfan66

Since i have been looking at a pre-amp amp combo, For you guys that have them. what is a good combo? I have been looking at Rotel/Adcom/Carver.
am i missing something? I would like to keep it within $2500.

Thanks,

Larry.

Sorry if i jacked this thread, Just figured since this is the subject at hand.

cnh

Tool...

You have an ICE-amp, didn't Mantis say that's pretty good in 2 channel already.

As for pre-amps/pros...someone with more experience than I should respond because I don't want to misinform. I've gone with an Adcom 555 (sounded good...in my price range). Looking into pre-amps. heiney9 has some good posts on that (you can seach them out). Every amp you mention has a following here. But no doubt there are probably a wealth of threads on all those amps. As you probably know by now. A lot of us have gotten our stuff used on audiogon, etc. There is some great stuff out there in the 'used' market that's in great shape. If you plan to spend that much you can do REALLY well there.

cnh

Kex

pearsall001 wrote: »

I would buy a new AVR & run your speakers to see how you like it. If you decide you need more power then add an external amp. I've been thru a few AVR/dedicated two channel pre combos & to tell the truth I noticed no diference at all in 2 channel listening. I'm back to using my AVR for both HT & 2 channel & find no sonic disadvantage at all.

I believe that this can be true for others also. It depends on several criteria, perhaps, but in some cases ... an above average AVR may be more than adequate, and the addition of an amplifier may not always yield the intended results, despite the extra cost. Perhaps there is no global answer that fits every situation after all, and despite the suggestion of being "admitted to an elite club" (which may attract some simply for the supposed prestige involved) by purchasing entry to mid-level seperates, there is no substitute for using one's ears and making up one's own mind. YMMV.

Mike21

I have an Onk 805 which I dearly love. Originally, I was using it for both HT and CD stereo with Polk M50 fronts. Then, I replaced the M50s with a pair of Dali Ikon6 for the fronts. The 805 simply did not have the power to drive the Dalis for best stereo SQ. So, I started saving up to add a 200w x 2 amp for the system.

Then, I decided to move the Dalis to my computer audio system, replace the M50s in the front of the HT system and use that system for HT only.

So, unless one gets an avr with sufficient power for stereo operation, I think that pre/pro and amp(s) is the way to go.

My preference is the later. In my long gone former HT/stereo system, I used a Rotel 7.1 pre/pro with the matching 120w x 5 amp which I used for the 4 surround speakers. I liked the Rotel components a lot.

Rotel's current lineup includes the RSP-1098 pre/pro ($3000 list) and RMB-1575 amp (5 x 250w) ($2,800 list). I'm guessing that the pair could be had for about $5000 actual retail.

I think one can find less expensive combos at Emotiva, NAD and Outlaw.

Mike

Jonesy

As you've already heard, everyone's experience will vary but I can tell you that in my room with my ears I've experienced an improvement in both HT and 2-channel with every step up the ladder. AVR -> AVR with outboard amp(s) -> entry level pre/pro -> mid level pre/pro.

Going from the Outlaw 950 to a Rotel 1068 has been a bigger improvement than I thought it would. I am curious about the Emotiva stuff however. I'm trying to get a friend of mine to jump in so I can hear it.

snow

SuperG wrote: »

I currently have a Denon AVR-1706 with no preouts. It only pushes out 75 w per channel. I find it good enough for my HT needs but it lacks that extra punch for music.

I have the Rti 8 for mains, Csi 3 center, RM15 for surrounds and a PSW505 sub.

Should I buy a new AVR (Onkyo 805 for example) and add an amp later?...Or should I go with a preamp and amp and hook it up directly to my CD player? All I'm lookin for is better sound for music.

As far as budget...the cheaper it is, the easier it is to sell the idea to the wifee.

There is a huge amount of things to consider when deciding which way to go. First off are you into or have any plans of getting into HD movies? if you are or plan on it sometime soon it will be far more reasonable to get an AVR which had HDMI 1.3 inputs than to purchase a pre-pro with that available, if you simply want good 2 channel stereo and are happy with your receiver than either get an intergrated amp or even better yet seperates. No matter how good your receiver is it will not match the sound quality of similarly priced seperates for 2 channel sound. The first seperates I had were an Adcom GFA-555 amp and a Adcom GTP-500 they cost less than my receiver did and sounded much better. That combo can be had used on Ebay for in the $400.00 to $500.00 range. If your CD player has a volume control you can run it directly to your amp and skip the pre/pro also.



REGARDS SNOW

SuperG

snow wrote: »

There is a huge amount of things to consider when deciding which way to go. First off are you into or have any plans of getting into HD movies? if you are or plan on it sometime soon it will be far more reasonable to get an AVR which had HDMI 1.3 inputs than to purchase a pre-pro with that available, if you simply want good 2 channel stereo and are happy with your receiver than either get an intergrated amp or even better yet seperates. No matter how good your receiver is it will not match the sound quality of similarly priced seperates for 2 channel sound. The first seperates I had were an Adcom GFA-555 amp and a Adcom GTP-500 they cost less than my receiver did and sounded much better. That combo can be had used on Ebay for in the $400.00 to $500.00 range. If your CD player has a volume control you can run it directly to your amp and skip the pre/pro also.



REGARDS SNOW

Thanks for all the help guys.

For now, I am satisfied with the setup for my H.T. So I think it would be best to try and improve the 2 channel sound for music. I don't think I would be better off buying a new AVR if I'm still not satisfied with the 2 channel sound. It would cost me $800.00 to $900.00 for an AVR then I would still need to purchase a dedicated amp or a pre and amp.

So my next question is...what would be a good amp or pre/amp combo to run my Rti 8 ? Would I see a big improvement ?

snow

SuperG wrote: »

Thanks for all the help guys.

For now, I am satisfied with the setup for my H.T. So I think it would be best to try and improve the 2 channel sound for music. I don't think I would be better off buying a new AVR if I'm still not satisfied with the 2 channel sound. It would cost me $800.00 to $900.00 for an AVR then I would still need to purchase a dedicated amp or a pre and amp.

So my next question is...what would be a good amp or pre/amp combo to run my Rti 8 ? Would I see a big improvement ?

We need to know two things before we can recommend something that will work for you. New or used? How much can you spend? I know earlier you said the cheaper the better but it's hard to recommend without some idea of what that means.

And yes you should be able to tell a difference.


REGARDS SNOW

SuperG

I would like to keep it under $800.00. I would prefer new but I would not mind buying used.

You mentionned that an Adcom GFA-555 amp and a Adcom GTP-500 can be had used on Ebay for in the $400.00 to $500.00 range. Would this be a good match for my Rti 8's.

snow

SuperG wrote: »

I would like to keep it under $800.00. I would prefer new but I would not mind buying used.

You mentionned that an Adcom GFA-555 amp and a Adcom GTP-500 can be had used on Ebay for in the $400.00 to $500.00 range. Would this be a good match for my Rti 8's.

Not ever having owned Rti8's I cant say this is the best possible match but it should do very well yes. Or perhaps an used Sunfire 300x2 and a Adcom pre or a Carver TFM-55 or TFM-55X and an Adcom pre Or a Parasound pre and amp or any combo of the above. All of these brands are pretty well respected names and models for mid level Hi-Fi.



REGARDS SNOW

SuperG

thanks for the info Snow, I will keep my eyes open for some good used brand names you mentionned. I will try to find locally first.

What should I look for as far as specifications such as wpc?

snow

SuperG wrote: »

thanks for the info Snow, I will keep my eyes open for some good used brand names you mentionned. I will try to find locally first.

What should I look for as far as specifications such as wpc?

Well it's been my experience that for these types of amps that 200 wpc or more is where the biggest improvements are to be found. Tube. class A and even some SS amps dont neccasairly need this high of wattage to sound very good but for the $$ mentioned and the brands mentioned it is a good rule of thumb.



REGARDS SNOW

cfrizz

I am just like Jonesy partial to Rotel gear. They have a musicality that is hard to beat. But they are a tad on the expensive side new.

As Snow suggested, I saw the biggest improvement when I got a 205wpc Parasound amp. I will never go lower than that.

But others have found sonic heaven with less.

danz1906

SuperG wrote: »

I currently have a Denon AVR-1706 with no preouts. It only pushes out 75 w per channel. I find it good enough for my HT needs but it lacks that extra punch for music.

I have the Rti 8 for mains, Csi 3 center, RM15 for surrounds and a PSW505 sub.

Should I buy a new AVR (Onkyo 805 for example) and add an amp later?...Or should I go with a preamp and amp and hook it up directly to my CD player? All I'm lookin for is better sound for music.

As far as budget...the cheaper it is, the easier it is to sell the idea to the wifee.

For Music a Pre-amp/Amp combo will be much better.Try Audiogon for
Used equipment.Adcom or Rotel are good deals:cool:

ND13

There's some pretty nice sounding integrated amps out there.

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatran&1243225182&/Musical-fidelity-A300

http://buy.audiogon.com/cgia/fsb.pl?intatran&1&ctg&st1

1GoodListener

SuperG wrote: »

I currently have a Denon AVR-1706 with no preouts. It only pushes out 75 w per channel. I find it good enough for my HT needs but it lacks that extra punch for music. I have the Rti 8 for mains, Csi 3 center, RM15 for surrounds and a PSW505 sub. Should I buy a new AVR (Onkyo 805 for example) and add an amp later?...Or should I go with a preamp and amp and hook it up directly to my CD player? All I'm lookin for is better sound for music.
As far as budget...the cheaper it is, the easier it is to sell the idea to the wifee.

My 2 cents: consider a Denon 2809ci (:)of course, I love mine!) http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/4484.asp about $800 now from an authorized dealer online (and it soon may be less with 2010 Denon models coming out). Why this one, you ask? This pre/pro would be a huge upgrade for you, for both HT and music because of the new Audyssey MULTEQ XT with Dynamic Volume, much better DAC's (Burr-Brown), etc. I heard an amazing SQ improvement with both surround sound and 2 channel over a 1909I demo'd. It has 7.1 preouts so you can add an amp later if you want to. With 120w/ch into 2 ch, it has punch with my 90dB sensitivity Polks. Of course, all the new codecs: lossless audio is great.